Want to Live a Good life? Here's what Ancient Greece had to say.

[Postmaster]

http://ancienthistory.about.com/library/bl/uc_bakaoukas4d1.htm

For man, it is important to consider reason as part of his nature. The ability to reason is what distinguishes men from animals.

One must live in accordance with nature in order to be happy. For humans, this includes perfecting reason as well as studying nature and attending to things. By living in accordance with nature, one is also leading a life of virtue. Thus, a virtuous life in accordance with nature is a happy life.

(Zeno was Greek Cypriot)

Ancient Greek Philosophy even untill this present day, in Hellenistic countries, including relatives of the Greeks the Latinos this is the majority of the peoples life styles
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Modern Western and Modern USA, Northern European this is the majority of the peoples life styles


Work all week to pay off your credit card bills then on the weekends, get drunk as much as possible, look for spontaneous sexual activity, and commit crimes ranging from murder to abuse.

In Greece and Cyprus and even Greeks in the UK still do arranged marriages. The children of the family are expected to work and support the family and in return they get all the inheritence (never charged board money) and when the children grow the parents will fix up there children with other singles from good family friends. Cousins are like brothers and second cousins are like first cousins and thats a saying in Cyprus. Also we are not even allowed to marry are second cousins let alone our first Girls are expect to look after there parents when the get old and children are expect to name there children after there parents, this is for honor and respect. You always offer to pay when you go out and eat with friends and family and often this can turn into a argument. Above all things girls are expected to stay virgins untill the day they get married This Greek society for you today. However this is slowly dieing due to americanization Greek dating sites are doing a good job of picking up one lost children though

 

[Faithfulservant]

Modern Western and Modern USA, Northern European this is the majority of the peoples life styles


Work all week to pay off your credit card bills then on the weekends, get drunk as much as possible, look for spontaneous sexual activity, and commit crimes ranging from murder to abuse.

Excuse me? I think you watch too many movies.

 

[Postmaster]

I’ am excusing you. I said nothing about you I can't talk for any individual all I'm saying is this is the life style western society is promoting due to greed and money. Yes it exists all over the world, but not as much as accepted in the west. It’s a problem that politicians and people need to tackle. Maybe they should follow example of other countries. There's good and bad people all over the world and no race is better then the other. I'm showing examples of the way it should be, or at least how I personally would like it. Which movies would they be? I work all week in my parents resturant, I have no time for movies. Unfortunantly they are major issues and problems with society and thats a fact I just want people to see a different life style. What am I talking about, I can't change the way people think and act.. Thats why we wait for the second coming of Jesus. This world will be over come be evil again. The time Jesus came the Romans were in the Middle east. Now the USA is in the middle east, maybe its a historical sign. Thats what the 3 wise men did when they went looking for Jesus, they noted astrology and history.

 

[mirrorinthefog]

Trying to push what you think morality should entail on other people is no different from the Roman policiy you love to criticize.
And, being rude about it certainly doesn't help. If anything I'm less willing to listen to your preaching now.
Insulting other people's way of life, labeling them and then backing out by saying "well a majority is this way", then offering up what you personally believe as a cure-all alternative is NOT the way to make a point.
I don't care if you're Pro-Hellenic, but please, keep it to yourself, if you have nothing considerate to say about others.

 

[Faithfulservant]

I think its the arrogance Im taking offense to... I'll consider the age and leave it at that.

 

[Postmaster]

The only people being negative are the ignorant ones

I'm sure that there are many people in western society that agree with me I have insulted no one, no person! I'm only questioning a way of life that is not fit for humans. I don't care what anyone thinks. I will stick 100% by what I say, no apologise. Fact of the matter is, people do disagree its part of life.

 

[Faithfulservant]

1 Corinthians 3:18-20 Let no one deceive himself. If anyone among you seems to be wise in this age, let him become a fool that he may become wise. For the wisdom of this world is foolishness with God. For it is written, "He catches the wise in their own craftiness"; and again, "The Lord knows the thoughts of the wise, that they are futile."

 

[Postmaster]

You have studied the bible extensively, there is a quote in the bible for every aspect of life. I never nor do I think that I'm wise, as a matter of fact I know very little. That seems to be your own assumption of how I'm trying to come across.

Only God Can Judge me


I clearly said something that you do not agree with. And now you are making a personal attack on me. Something I haven't done to you.

There's no greater fool then the person that argues with the fool (This I'am guilty for)

Are you willing to own up too?

 

[Postmaster]

Feel free to debate the issue I have proposed, by all means

 

[Faithfulservant]

Its not judging PM its inspecting fruit.. What bothered me was the insinuation that all westerners follow this preconceived notion of yours. When I showed my disagreement you refused to apologize for having that opinion.. which you dont have to do.. It sounds like you want an apology from me for having an opinion. I dont understand this.

And Ive been called foolish before

 

[Blue]

I am not really sure what you are saying in your first main post, PM.

Are you suggesting that Greek culture, as it is today, is some kind of paragon?

In ancient times they did seem to be very accepting of homosexuality in many of their social groupings, and they did believe in a whole pantheon of Gods, and they have demonstrated a dedication to reason and reflection and skills which have survived to this day.

Are you suggesting Western societies emulate modern Greek societies, or ancient Greek societies?

Whichever... why?

Are you suggesting we should all imitate the Cypriot practices you outline, with arranged marriages, etc?
If so, that's fine; it is something to be considered, though over here in England, arranged marriages by many ethnic and social groups seem to cause young women, in particular, a great deal of grief.

As I hope I am illustrating, I am not very sure what the point is.
Much that we have, like drama, poetry, political systems, mathematics and the sciences, etc., is indebted to Greek influences. So?

With varied moralities displayed, you are surely not praising their pantheon of Gods, or their sexual practices, or even their family organisations as the ultimate? They varied, PM, past and present... And still do.

 

[Postmaster]

I'm trying to point out that people in the west of the world, mainly USA, Canada, Northern Europe and even Australia. The people of these countries live in different cultures to the rest of the world. The Culture we see is exactly how I said it. Work all week to pay off debts, live for material things live watches, cellar/mobile phones.

Weekends a lot of people looking for spontaneous sexual activity, one of the causes of raised sexually transmitted disease. Including excessive drinking and high crime rates from murder to abuse. Drug taking, unfaithfulness in marriage and partners.

There is no doubt that these are all world wide issues but why is this activity the highest in the western countries? Live in a village in Cyprus or even a city and see that you can walk the streets of the cities at 2am and you could do it a million times and you will not be a victim of crime this I personally promise you.

 

[KnightoftheRose]

Work all week to pay off debts, live for material things live watches, cellar/mobile phones.

Ah, materialism. The crux of modern western civilization. An unfortunate side-effect of capitalism - but without it, wouldn't we all be living centuries in the past? After all, business emerges from a lust for wealth, and from business emerges industry, and from industry all sorts of things (ranging from medicine to computer technology). So what I'm saying is - this materialistic attitude you're attacking has actually served western society quite well. Sure, it could be toned down - but try to imagine how *uninspired* a world without greed would be.

Weekends a lot of people looking for spontaneous sexual activity, one of the causes of raised sexually transmitted disease. Including excessive drinking and high crime rates from murder to abuse. Drug taking, unfaithfulness in marriage and partners.

Are you implying this is the norm in western nations? Hate to break it to you, but most people I know work, spend time with their loved ones, occasionally dine out at semi-expensive restaurants, perhaps take a drive somewhere, and go to church on sunday. That's about their average schedule. Pretty languid, eh? You'd think with all the extra time given to them by such a laid-back schedule they'd be able to fit rape and kidnapping and drug abuse into their lives...

You're from Greece, correct? Perhaps cultural isolation is leading you to believe the west is something it isn't. Maybe you've allowed television to stereotype Americans and Europeans for you. Or perhaps your national pride has led you to conclude the Greek lifestyle is superior in all respects to the Western lifestyle, and so you are looking to justify such beliefs by demeaning us. Whatever. Just realize that your comments could be perceived as rather offensive.

There is no doubt that these are all world wide issues but why is this activity the highest in the western countries?

Eh? I think you're mistaken...third world countries *definitely* have a higher crime rate than us...and do you honestly think we have the highest rate of infidelity? Take a look at Africa and the AIDs crisis going on there. Take a look at Japan; its considered acceptable for men to pay for the services of prostitutes.

Live in a village in Cyprus or even a city and see that you can walk the streets of the cities at 2am and you could do it a million times and you will not be a victim of crime this I personally promise you.

And I can walk down the streets of Wiesbaden or Mainz at 2 AM and not be the victim of a crime. What's your point?

 

[Postmaster]

You're from Greece, correct? Perhaps cultural isolation is leading you to believe the west is something it isn't. Maybe you've allowed television to stereotype Americans and Europeans for you. Or perhaps your national pride has led you to conclude the Greek lifestyle is superior in all respects to the Western lifestyle, and so you are looking to justify such beliefs by demeaning us. Whatever. Just realize that your comments could be perceived as rather offensive.

I live in the United kingdom I was born here to Greek Cyrpiot parents, I've lived in Cyprus too. Its my dual nationality that can understand and see beyond. In Cyprus there is Mc donalds too and everyone has mobiles phones. Like I said compare the crime rate (reagrdless of the population size) in the middle east and south Europe to the USA and the North of Europe and you will be shocked. Check out the rate. You walk a million times down the hightest crime street in Cyprus and I walk down the hightest crime street in the USA with the same amount of people in that area, who will be pounced on for there money the most? Cyprus is one of the saftest countries in the world and thats a fact. Funny thing is, almost every
House hold in Cyprus has a shot gun because military service is compulsory.

Eh? I think you're mistaken...third world countries *definitely* have a higher crime rate than us...and do you honestly think we have the highest rate of infidelity? Take a look at Africa and the AIDs crisis going on there. Take a look at Japan; its considered acceptable for men to pay for the services of prostitutes.

Exactly look at Japan, they have the lowest crime rates in the world and they have also managed to be one of the most technologically advance country in the world. So racial or ethnic heritage might have something to do with these issues, would you agree? How can anyone find this offensive, I'm trying to start a legitimate discussion here, and I plead no superiority towards no one. My theory is that people of ethnic origin whose ancestors have lived in ancient civilisations are the least likely people to commit crime.. Controversial I know. But true? Maybe. As regards to human beings, we are the same good and bad Scientist also recently
Discovered that South American civilisations sprung up artificially, I read so in the new scientist magazines, a few hundred years they go from hunter gathers to pyramids, and this will feed more to theory Middle Eastern influence on South America from Egypt. Also its fact that people of northern Europe were barbaric, these people are ancestors of the Anglo American. The people of south Europe mainly the Greeks and Romans, built a lot of the cites in Europe and started civilisation, this means that people of northern Europe were also put in civilisations before there time. Iraq is a place where one of the first civlisations were found, apart from the dictated that was put in power by the americans in the first place, the people of Iraq are very peaceful. Makes you wonder who really should be invaded. I said it. You can carry out your witch hunt now. But I hope you see that my intesntions are not wrong, only educating. this is no attack on anyone. Only the truth.

 

[Ron Price]

PERSIANS, YET AGAIN, AT THE PERIFERY



In 404 BC Athens surrendered and the Athenian sea power, the Athenian empire, was at an end....As time went on dissention and discord increased among all factions. -Ron Price, Ancient History Notes: Greece 478 to 404 BC., Thornlie Tafe, 1992.

As we watch the demise of democracy

we ponder the complexities of Pericles

and wonder if our apparent democracy

is the same as his apparent democracy.

As Athens drowned in a sea of waring

complexities, poor decision making,

a traditional and unreasoning occultism,

so, too, are we drowning.

Our short experiment with this

ancient political form

is in its final hour, as we wait

and watch and wonder where we go to now.

We have had our Ionian War,

our Rule of the Thirty,

our Antiphons and Theramenes,

our profanation of the mysteries,

disasterous Sicilian expedition,

but what will be our surrender?

A recrudescent right-wing authoritarianism,

now known or not known, an anarchous nationalism,

a barbarism of the proletariat, a peaceful, quiet,

democratic theocracy with the future in its bones

and Persians, yet again, at the perifery?

Ron Price

19 December 1995

 

[Ron Price]

CUPID AND PSYCHE



Cupid was an emblem of the heart, in Greek mythology. Psyche was the personification of the soul and represented by the form of butterfly wings. Psyche suffered a great deal in her efforts to learn about love and faith. After much suffering, caused by the jealousy of her sisters and her own inability to keep a promise, Cupid and Psyche were married. -Ron Price from H.A. Guerber,Greece and Rome: Myths and Legends, Chancellor Press, London, 1995(1907), pp. 127-137.

Such a happy ending after wandering,

a victim of the heart’s desires and the

slings and arrows of mysterious fortune!

Is it always so?

Such beauty, such a heavenly gem, delicate

sweetness, mystery of mysteries, moves and

is still, whose fruit, whose light, a butterfly.

Is it always so?

No voice, no lute, no pipe, no incense

can tell of Her divinely ordained and subtle reality,

fairer than the sapphire-regioned galaxies

or bowers of flowers.

Is it always so?

This heart’s home of fleeting fancies takes Her

airy lightness far from its vitalizing power, beauteous

hour, resplendent luminaries of the atom or drop.

Is it always so?

Your visage appears warn, loveliest vision

in heaven’s unknown hierarchy, enjoying closeness

to thousands of other dancing wings,

but stained now with earthly desires,

the taint of Your memories,

Your waywardness, a remoteness

from Your own wondrous beauty,

its vast and inner mysteries.

Is it always so?

Even though You have been preoccupied

with Your patterns which can not fatten

nor appease the hunger, You can but sing

and be great choirs as well as moan

in late night fires. You’ll be a shrine,

a grove, a pipe, for Your own soul linked to some eternal Light.

Is it always so?

29/11/96.

 

[KnightoftheRose]

Argh! I wrote a long reply and my Mozilla bombed out!

Anywho...

Like I said compare the crime rate (reagrdless of the population size) in the middle east and south Europe to the USA and the North of Europe and you will be shocked. Check out the rate.

Ok, first of all, let me point this out: in order for a crime rate to be accurate, the cops have to report the crime. I lived in Bahrain for three years, and let me tell you, the police were *corrupt*. If a member of a somewhat important family (and almost every family in bahrain was at least somewhat important) were to commit a crime, you could almost be guaranteed a police would aid him in covering it up. Heck, you could pretty much murder your Hindu maid and no one would care. It happened quite frequently. Think *that* got written up by the cops to influence the national statistics on crime rate?

And I wouldn't trust a European cop to do his job further than I could throw him. Bad experiences.

*Further*...the crime rate in America is disproportional. Some key cities pretty much supply all the crime in the states. Elsewhere, you're pretty safe.

Anyways, my point is - crime rate means nothing.

Exactly look at Japan, they have the lowest crime rates in the world and they have also managed to be one of the most technologically advance country in the world.

That has nothing to do with what I was talking about. My point earlier was that Japan considers infidelity acceptable, and thus Japan is more "unfaithful" than America. Which destroys your argument that such activities are highest in the west. I'm not judging anyone, just pointing out the facts.

My theory is that people of ethnic origin whose ancestors have lived in ancient civilisations are the least likely people to commit crime.

Egypt, Israel, Palestine, India, China, any Southeast Asian country, South America in general...these countries are all quite violent, and prone to crime. It has nothing to do with ethnicity. It has everything to do with poverty.

Also its fact that people of northern Europe were barbaric, these people are ancestors of the Anglo American. The people of south Europe mainly the Greeks and Romans, built a lot of the cites in Europe and started civilisation, this means that people of northern Europe were also put in civilisations before there time.

So? How much breeding do you suppose has gone on between the "North" Europeans and the "South" Europeans? I doubt there are that many people left in Europe who are "pure blooded".

Iraq is a place where one of the first civlisations were found, apart from the dictated that was put in power by the americans in the first place, the people of Iraq are very peaceful.

Indeed. Putting Sadam into power was a sin of ours - a sin we recently put to rest. Hopefully the citizens of Iraq can enjoy some peace once again.

Makes you wonder who really should be invaded.

Iran?

I said it. You can carry out your witch hunt now.

I wouldn't give you the pleasure of martyrdom.

But I hope you see that my intesntions are not wrong, only educating. this is no attack on anyone.

Educating? Beyond slightly racist comments, a degrading view of western society, and a call to arms against America, what exactly have you said that is "educating"?

Only the truth.

Uh-hunh.

 

[Postmaster]

Well, you make your argument, I have no energy to argue more. But it’s ok for the west to degrade Islam and suicide bombers and terrorists. Maybe they should simply take a look at the Bee. Discrimination is part of life, we do it every day when we open the door for a lady. But I stand by it that people of Ancient civilisations are less likely to commit a crime. Doesn't mean I personally am any less likely to commit a crime, then someone from Germany or anywhere else in the world.

 

[Faithfulservant]

how do you degrade terrorists and suicide bombers? I also dont think its discrimination to open the door for a lady.. I think thats called good manners.

 

[Postmaster]

I degrade the way they go about there cause, but I don't degrade there cause. Maybe, but we can't go throughout life without discriminating. That would still be a form of discrimination at its lowest level, but we still discriminating men just because of there sex. I'm not saying its a bad thing, I'm only saying that discrimination is part of life... Like everything when you take it to the extreme and out of balance then I suppose its wrong.