Recent Convert to Christ

Heck Rabbio I get credit for cut and pasting and crediting the author while speaking of another author... not for plagiarizing.

Most can recognize it can't be from me, distinct lack of ypos, punctuation and grammatical errors
 
And the other way...similar to Barr Ehrman...

As you know, I once was an evangelical megachurch pastor and my pastoral career stretched over many years. Eventually, I could no longer teach Christian doctrine with a good conscience and realized this teaching was not truly changing people’s lives… and so I walked away from the whole enchilada.

Below are 14 things that the misguided religious establishment doesn't want you to know. Speaking for myself and my personal experience, I was not able to see or admit these things to myself. I truly got into ministry initially because I wanted to make a difference and help people, and I relied upon the belief-system I learned as the proper framework to achieve this. It took a lot of post-religion reflection to see the ways this belief-system was hurting people.

I offer the below list in hopes that you might disentangle yourself from harmful beliefs and attitudes impacting your life.

14 things the misguided religious establishment doesn’t want you to know:

1. Toxic religion is rooted in fear, especially fear about the afterlife. It leverages the false doctrine of hell to win converts and demand holiness. The fear of God's disapproval, rejection, abandonment and punishment is another hallmark of toxic religion.

2. Clergy have no innate authority. Holding a church leadership position or having a theological degree does not imbue a person with special divine authority or superiority. The terms "anointed", "called", or "chosen" or titles such as "pastor", "priest", "bishop", "elder", "evangelist" or "apostle" do not confer any innate authority on an individual or group.

3. We hold sacred what we are taught to hold sacred, which is why what is sacred to one community is not sacred to another.

4. The stories in our sacred books aren’t history, nor were they meant to be. The authors of these books weren’t historians but writers of historical fiction: they used history (or pseudo history) as a context or pretext for their own ideas. Reading sacred texts as history may yield some nuggets of the past, but the real gold is in seeing these stories as myth and parable, and trying to unpack the possible meanings these parables and myths may hold.

5. Prayer doesn’t work the way you think it does. You can’t bribe God, or change God’s mind through obedience, devotion, or groveling. The underlying theistic premises of prayer are untenable.

6. Anything you claim to know about God, even the notion that there is a God, is a projection of your psyche. What you say about God—who God is, what God cares about, who God rewards, and who God punishes—says nothing about God and everything about you. If you believe in an unconditionally loving God, you probably value unconditional love. If you believe in a God who divides people into chosen and not chosen, believers and infidels, saved and damned, high cast or low caste, etc. you are likely someone who divides people into in–groups and out–groups with you and your group as the quintessential in-group. God may or may not exist, but your idea of God mirrors yourself and your values.

7. Nobody is born Jewish, Muslim, Hindu, Catholic, Protestant, etc. People are born human and are slowly conditioned by narratives of race, religion, gender, nationality, etc. to be less than human.

8. Theology isn’t the free search for truth, but rather a defense of an already held position. Theology is really apologetics, explaining why a belief is true rather than seeking out the truth in and of itself. All theological reasoning is circular, inevitably “proving” the truth of its own presupposition.

9. Becoming more religious cannot save us. Religion is a human invention reflecting the best and worst of humanity; becoming more religious will simply allow us to perpetuate compassion and cruelty in the name of religion. Because religion always carries the danger of fanaticism, becoming more religious may only heighten the risk of us becoming more fanatical.

10. Becoming less religious cannot save us. In fact, being against religion can become it’s own fanaticism. Becoming less religious will simply force us to perpetuate compassion and cruelty in the name of something else. Secular societies that actively suppress religion have proven no more just or compassionate than religious societies that suppress secularism or free thought. This is because neither religion nor the lack of religion solely nullifies our human potential to act out of ego, greed, fear, hostility, and hatred.

11. A healthy religion is one that helps us own and integrate the shadow side of human nature for the good of person and planet, something few clergy are trained to do. Clergy are trained to promote the religion they represent. They are apologists not liberators. If you want to be more just, compassionate, and loving, you must do the personal work within yourself, and free yourself from the conditions that lock you into injustice, cruelty, and hate, and this means you have to free yourself from all your narratives, including those you call “religious.”

12. Religious leaders claims that their particular understanding and interpretation of their sacred books should be universally accepted. Religious leaders often say, “My authority is the Bible.” It would be more accurate for them to say, “My authority is what they taught me at seminary the Bible means.” People start with flawed or false presuppositions about what the Bible is, such as: the Bible was meant to present a coherent theology about God or is a piece of doctrinal exposition; the Bible is the inerrant, infallible and sole message/"Word" of God to the world; the Bible is a blueprint for daily living. Too often religious leaders make God about having "correct theology." There are a lot of unhappy, broken, hurting, suffering, depressed, lonely people in church with church-approved theology.

13. If your livelihood depends on the success of your church as an organization, it doesn't take a rocket scientist to see that you will mostly define and reward Christianity as participation in church structures and programs. Christian living is mostly a decentralized reality or way of life, not a centralized or program-dependent phenomenon. Church attendance, tithing, membership, service, and devoted participation, become the hallmarks of Christian maturity.

14. You are capable of guiding your own spiritual path from the inside out and don't need to be told what to do. You naturally have the ability, capacity, tools and skills to guide and direct your life meaningfully, ethically and effectively. Through the use of your fundamental human faculties such as critical thinking, empathy, reason, conscience and intuition, you can capably lead your life. You have the choice to cultivate a spirituality that doesn’t require you to be inadequate, powerless, weak, and lacking, but one that empowers you toward strength, vitality, wholeness, and the fulfillment of your highest potentialities and possibilities.

Jim Palmer
Satan is delighted he tricked you and now you are a faithful proselyter for him.
 
Makes me think of Rodney...

I get no respect...

I'll adjust my tie and admit I don't deserve any...

That was me, not Bart or Jim or Jack or Charles...

After 6 decades I think all my words are simply bad paraphrasing of others that some folks dispise...pt barnum...lol
 
yes. that's what it came across as.
To be fair, he did say he didn't ...

... and anyone who's been around here a while knows Wil (who's been around here forever), and would not have made that mistake.

Matthew 7:1 springs to mind ;)
 
I assume Will agrees with Palmer's text . . . why else would he post it?
I realize this is from almost a year ago but... people do sometimes repost things they don't entirely agree with if they think there is something that is useful, instructive, illustrative, interesting, etc.
 
And the other way...similar to Barr Ehrman...

As you know, I once was an evangelical megachurch pastor and my pastoral career stretched over many years. Eventually, I could no longer teach Christian doctrine with a good conscience and realized this teaching was not truly changing people’s lives… and so I walked away from the whole enchilada.
Most interesting......
You have obviously had a most varied and interesting life.

Edit: I've just seen your last post, and Yes, I also thought that you had been referring to yourself!!!

.......
I did read your list through and agree with it all, but do need to ask 2 questions. I guess that you were an ordained pastor...surely that did give you some authority within your church/community, No?
My other question refers to titles. I imagine that Padres, Pastors, Vicars, Rectors, Priests, Ministers and other titles are all similar positions in churches, but I remember upsetting a Pastor when I referred to him as a Priest... Are these titles so different?
 
I get the impression you could carry on with 15, 16...

Is that really a good reason for turning away from faith .. because we have got some things wrong?
Everything belongs to G-d, and we must all return to Him .. regardless of creed.
We are all G-d's children .. the only thing that separates us is our piety and deeds.

It is not pious to criticise everyone but yourself .. your own creed .. imo.
Your Religions Leaders however criticise my Religion.
 
My other question refers to titles. I imagine that Padres, Pastors, Vicars, Rectors, Priests, Ministers and other titles are all similar positions in churches, but I remember upsetting a Pastor when I referred to him as a Priest... Are these titles so different?
It all depends on the denomination and/or the preacher in my experience.

When it comes to Christians I find Catholics more particular about being desirous to use their proper titles, and protestants more desirous of not being referred to by catholic titles.

Other religions also use the terms priest and monk...entomology of the titles and ranks for same in various beliefs would be interesting.
 
With regard to 14 things the misguided religious establishment doesn’t want you to know – It seems to me that in every instance the argument rests upon one or more fallacies.

1. Toxic religion is rooted in fear ... is another hallmark of toxic religion.
Toxic anything is injurious to health – toxic politics, toxic social media ... therefore one should examine the causes of toxicity – is politics fundamentally and essentially toxic? Is social media? In both cases, no ... same with religion.

So this is the tenor throughout ... sweeping generalisations that, when examined, don't hold water.
 
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Yes, and that's more about politics than faith .. as you probably know.
We no, according to the Quran my Religion is Idol Worshipping Evil.
So no it’s not just political.
 
We no, according to the Quran my Religion is Idol Worshipping Evil.
So no it’s not just political.
Do you worship idols?
I don't know..

Why do you not mention Christianity and Judaism, in this respect?
 
Do you worship idols?
I don't know..

Why do you not mention Christianity and Judaism, in this respe

Do you worship idols?
I don't know..

Why do you not mention Christianity and Judaism, in this respect?
I was addressing you, a Muslim.
Do I Worship Idols, according to the Quran.
You cannot be honest can you.
 
With regard to 14 things the misguided religious establishment doesn’t want you to know – It seems to me that in every instance the argument rests upon one or more fallacies.

1. Toxic religion is rooted in fear ... is another hallmark of toxic religion.
But there was much that the Christian religious establishment did not want the people to know.
For example, translations of the bible were not welcomed, and a good example of this was the execution of Luther. Later on, reading the bible and questioning the gospels was a dangerous activity.
During Queen Mary's reign Protestants and Catholics were burned for their beliefs, I've heard that this happened on the same day in different parts of Britain!
And so yes, religion was rooted in fear during life, let alone the threats of what awaited unbelievers in death.

But.....have you got an example of how a fear is rooted in fallacy?
 
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