Have you guys heard of this song before? U2's Yahweh - I actually music produced the song : - )

Good householder, sound, music, isn't something in the sphere of spirituality, it's sensuality, and very low joy, yet binding, increasing debt, and so a heavy drug, and a hindrance toward spheres beyond low sensual pleasure. (Just because it felt into this forum)
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Good householder, sound, music, isn't something in the sphere of spirituality, it's sensuality, and very low joy, yet binding, increasing debt, and so a heavy drug, and a hindrance toward spheres beyond low sensual pleasure. (Just because it felt into this forum)
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As a sweeping statement Judaism would disagree.
 
That's why both then not even lead into the Brahma realms, but your's might like to investigate since when lack of sense-restrain had become common under those followers.
It's not compatible to lead a holly life and enjoy sensual pleasures. It's not even proper for a workless begging debter.
 
Thomas said:
LOL, I was just typing the exact same response when I happened to look down ...
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So the priest of those followers, and his near disciples, gained his following with the promise to reach the Brahma realm, by playing music, singing dancing... promises that by unrestrained mind, attached to sensuality, peace beyond sensuality is reached, or is the talk about Schralaffenland (Cockaigne).
Atma don't think that the religions mentioned do not praise sense restrain, don't thinks that their original leader had been music playing vagabonds...
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
So the priest of those followers, and his near disciples, gained his following with the promise to reach the Brahma realm, by playing music, singing dancing... promises that by unrestrained mind, attached to sensuality,
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Oh, I'm not saying pop music or whatever has a place in the spiritual domain ... I just wouldn't dismiss all music outright.

Music, dance, poetry, the arts generally, can be paths to the sublime. A simple word or gesture can change lives, or alter the course of worlds. We are first and foremost creatures, the journey starts from where we are, and we are crteaturely along the way, as long as we are in the world.

It's a question of discernment.

There are genres of music, as in all things.
 
Thomas said:
It's a question of discernment.

There are genres of music, as in all things.
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I agree with that.
Music, such as that associated with Arab style 'belly dancing' is frowned upon in Islam,
perhaps due to that association .. just a thought.

I remember that in my youth, many of the older generation frowned upon 'pop music';
especially 'the Rolling Stones' with their sexual, explicit fornication.

Mary Whitehouse springs to mind:-

Hugh Greene, knighted in January 1964, became her bête noire. He was, according to Whitehouse, "the devil incarnate" who "more than anybody else ... [was] responsible for the moral collapse in this country." The CUTV manifesto asserted that the BBC under Greene spread "the propaganda of disbelief, doubt and dirt ... promiscuity, infidelity and drinking". In place of this, the authors argued, the corporation's activities should "encourage and sustain faith in God and bring Him back to the hearts of our family and national life." Interviewed by The Catholic Herald for its Christmas 1965 issue, Whitehouse thought the BBC loaded its programmes in favour of the 'new morality'.
Mary_Whitehouse - Wikipedia
 
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Thomas said:
Oh, I'm not saying pop music or whatever has a place in the spiritual domain ... I just wouldn't dismiss all music outright.

Music, dance, poetry, the arts generally, can be paths to the sublime. A simple word or gesture can change lives, or alter the course of worlds. We are first and foremost creatures, the journey starts from where we are, and we are crteaturely along the way, as long as we are in the world.

It's a question of discernment.

There are genres of music, as in all things.
Click to expand...
May good householder be sure that if not leading the holly life, sublime life, act proper, Sublime can't be reached. It's impossible to reach the Brahma realms for one who as not abound, does not see the danger and bond of sensuality.

Sensual entertainment, relay is bond to the sensual sphere, does lead beyond, does not give even the release of the Brahmas.

Simply the fear of losing this low joy already should show this drugs danger for somebody with some discernment and truthfulness.
 
muhammad_isa said:
I agree with that.
Music, such as that associated with Arab style 'belly dancing' is frowned upon in Islam,
perhaps due to that association .. just a thought.

I remember that in my youth, many of the older generation frowned upon 'pop music';
especially 'the Rolling Stones' with their sexual, explicit fornication.

Mary Whitehouse springs to mind:-

Hugh Greene, knighted in January 1964, became her bête noire. He was, according to Whitehouse, "the devil incarnate" who "more than anybody else ... [was] responsible for the moral collapse in this country." The CUTV manifesto asserted that the BBC under Greene spread "the propaganda of disbelief, doubt and dirt ... promiscuity, infidelity and drinking". In place of this, the authors argued, the corporation's activities should "encourage and sustain faith in God and bring Him back to the hearts of our family and national life." Interviewed by The Catholic Herald for its Christmas 1965 issue, Whitehouse thought the BBC loaded its programmes in favour of the 'new morality'.
Mary_Whitehouse - Wikipedia
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What's spiritual (not sensual) aspect of belly dance, good householder... serious?

And don't one say that the misery crying of Gospel is something sages of old praised... bond slaves do such, surely not someone with certain faith.
 
Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
May good householder be sure that if not leading the holly life, sublime life, act proper ...
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I see it in a more nuanced manner. I think the senses, and the human intellect, can lead one to set one's foot upon the holy path.

I see sacred dance in all the great spiritual traditions; sacred song, sacred signs, sacred postures ...

All traditions have their echo in the human sensorium; if they did not, then the gulf between creature and creator would be an impossible chasm.

Would you dismiss all scripture as mere words?

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I agree that detachment is 'the noblest of virtues' as Meister Eckhart would say, but again, we are but human, and have to start somewhere.

"The is nothing in the intellect that was not first in the senses." (Peripatetic Axiom)

And indeed we must free ourselves of the senses, but really that doesn't happen until death. Until then its self-discipline and the rule.

We are in the world. If we ignore the world, what is the point of our being?

Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Sublime can't be reached. It's impossible to reach the Brahma realms for one who as not abound, does not see the danger and bond of sensuality.
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Agreed, but that does not mean one did not learn that lesson on the way.

The sublime cannot be reached, but it can be sensed, and it draws us to Itself.

Maya can be said to be the World of Illusion, but in so saying, Atma is implicit – where Maya is, there Atma is also.

For us the world is a theophany ... all nature has its song.

Dhammañāṇa Bhikkhu said:
Sensual entertainment, relay is bond to the sensual sphere, does lead beyond, does not give even the release of the Brahmas.
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But it can lead to, and contextually, 'sacred music' or 'sacred dance' points to ...

When one realises that Brahma alone is real, then the world and all therein finds its proper place.

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In poetic terms, one's act of being is one's song. All being is the song of Brahman

'For in you we live and move and have our being' (in Acts 17:28, St Paul quotes the Cretan poet Epimenides of Knossos).
 
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