Does God really exist?

Aupmanyav said:
Cosmos does not have any 'edge'.

iu

calabi-yau manifolds at DuckDuckGo

DuckDuckGo. Privacy, Simplified.
duckduckgo.com duckduckgo.com
Click to expand...
So what do we refer to when we speak of the part of the universe that exists between the universe and nothing? The universe may be expanding, but it still should have an edge.
 
moralorel said:
So what do we refer to when we speak of the part of the universe that exists between the universe and nothing? The universe may be expanding, but it still should have an edge.
Click to expand...
Kindly go through one or two of these explanations at Does universe have an edge? at DuckDuckGo
en.wikipedia.org

Shape of the universe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
More information here: Calabi–Yau manifold - Wikipedia
From very simple to extremely complex, universe may have any shape.

AI generated answer:
"The universe does not have an edge in the traditional sense; it is believed to be infinite and flat, meaning it goes on forever without a boundary. However, there is a limit to what we can observe, known as the cosmic horizon, which is the farthest distance from which light has had time to reach us since the Big Bang."

A tube will not have an edge. So to say, it is closed on itself.
iu
iu
 
Last edited:
TheLightWithin said:
They would have to establish the concrete existence of such things first.
Click to expand...
Yes they would ...

TheLightWithin said:
So it may be not so much that science has hit a wall as such, but that they inherently are bound by being only able to reliably assess things that are observable and repeatable, which for a long time has at least seemed to limit them to the physical/material realm.
Click to expand...

The error is to suppose "God" as an "energy", some kind of unique physical force or causal principle at the apex of all the other forces and principles found in the cosmos – which is not, by definition, what God is.

"... (The Logos) who is the image of the invisible God, firstborn of all creation, because in him were created all things in the heavens and on earth, the visible as well as the invisible (whether Thrones or Lordships or Archons or Powers); all things were created through him and for him; and he is before all things, and all things hold together in him ..." (Colossians

As Epimenides said "For in you we live and move and have our being" (Epimenides, Cretica, c6th-7th century BC)

As long as the empirical sciences treat God or angels as a 'thing' among other things, as something along with everything else encompassed within nature, they'll never find it.

The 'science v religion' debate is such a nonsense – why it lingers is due to fundamentalists on both sides, no serious scientist gives it any credence. It's a busted flush.
 
Can there be one truth so great, that possibly even God could not do anything greater.

Could God love each and everyone of us, as he loves himself?

Could God love us more than he loves himself?

Creation.

Here is a childlike and yet profound way to challenge the power of the greatest commandments; when looking for one single purpose that might impel God to create the universe and life. If you choose to read further, then search for something greater.

God could create galaxies, stars, planets, plants and animals. What relationship could God have with his creation?

Can God create anything greater than children in his own image? Could God love each and every one of his children as he loves himself. Can there be any greater reason for God to create children in his own image?

What greatest purpose could God set mankind?

We cannot love God as we love ourselves, because that would bring God down to our level, so we have the greatest commandment to love God with all our heart, soul, mind and strength. If God loves everyone as he loves himself, we are given the second greatest commandment (Matthew 22;34 – 40) to do likewise. Should we treat everyone as if they are God’s children, because God loves everyone, we should also love everyone.

When you ask the question; why did Christ say the two commandments are greatest? Can it possibly be because God cannot do anything greater? Could the greatest commandments be an ultimate / absolute truth? Did the greatest commandments have a greatest meaning for God, before he gave them to us?

Interfaith relations hang and depend on our understanding of God, can we pray together, pray for each other and pray for our communities. Challenging the religions of the world, to search for a greatest understanding of God, the creator of all that is seen and unseen.

Whatever our beliefs might be, the same God hears all our prayers, despite our differences. We are all created by the same God.

You will never look into the eyes of anyone, who does not matter to God.

All the land belongs to God, we are all temporary custodians on God’s Earth.

I have written this from a Christian perception. Whatever faith you might follow, search for a greater meaning. If we see God as the greatest good, should we also strive to be like the God we worship?

The religions of the world are like pieces of a jigsaw puzzle. The pieces make little sense when they are scattered. We are all part of a bigger picture. All the diverse pieces of the puzzle make more sense, when they are united and we see the image of God. How can we all be united through the same God?

We can marvel at the great attention to detail that is evident in everything from the microscopic cells of life and right up to the giant structures of galaxies. Can you find any greater single purpose for all this to exist? Challenge the above statements in your mind in an honest way, test them against logic, reason and any religious beliefs. I do not wish to claim ownership for these words, they are given freely for you to do as you see fit.

My use of words is inadequate, search for meaning, rather than focusing on the words used. This is only a collection of words to challenge the mind to think, I do not pretend to understand the meaning, or to make any claims of truth from these words.
 
EricPH said:
I have written this from a Christian perception.
Click to expand...
From an atheist's perspective, the first question is: "Does God/Gods/Goddesses even exist or they are just products of our imagination?"

Regarding the shape of the universe, the closest IMHO would be "the surface (not on) of an expanding bubble. The bubble not being necessarily spherical".
 
Aupmanyav said:
Kindly go through one or two of these explanations at Does universe have an edge? at DuckDuckGo
en.wikipedia.org

Shape of the universe - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org
More information here: Calabi–Yau manifold - Wikipedia
From very simple to extremely complex, universe may have any shape.

AI generated answer:
"The universe does not have an edge in the traditional sense; it is believed to be infinite and flat, meaning it goes on forever without a boundary. However, there is a limit to what we can observe, known as the cosmic horizon, which is the farthest distance from which light has had time to reach us since the Big Bang."

A tube will not have an edge. So to say, it is closed on itself.
iu
iu
Click to expand...
So it comes down to a definition technicality.

As I keep reading the most common answer to my question is.... "we don't know". Without observing the end of the universe, we can't for sure say if it has an "edge". But even more intriguing is that we have absolutely no clue what it is like outside of the universe.

So I did your research for you. You can not for sure claim there is no edge. Nor can you claim that there is an edge. We don't know how to define what we can't observe.
 
moralorel said:
.. we have absolutely no clue what it is like outside of the universe. .. we can only see up to the cosmic microwave background (CMB) (roughly 370000 years after the big bang) as anything beyond that is opaque.
Click to expand...

There is no outside of the universe.
Before our finding about CMB, we could see even less.
So, the research goes on.

At the moment, we can see as far as 13.8 billion years (i.e., 6 trillion x 13.8 billion miles, 82.8 billion trillion miles).
 
Aupmanyav said:
There is no outside of the universe.
Before our finding about CMB, we could see even less.
So, the research goes on.

At the moment, we can see as far as 13.8 billion years (i.e., 6 trillion x 13.8 billion miles, 82.8 billion trillion miles).
Click to expand...
You might want to read the book that you originally used as a source. In that very book the author admits that we have no clue what is outside the universe. We don't have any evidence of what is outside of our universe. But to say there is no "outside of the universe" is an empty claim without any evidence to back it. Many scientists, including Strauss, have hypothesized what it is like outside of the universe. If there is no "outside of the universe", then do tell all of us where the universe is expanding into?
 
Aupmanyav said:
From an atheist's perspective, the first question is: "Does God/Gods/Goddesses even exist or they are just products of our imagination?"
Click to expand...

Of course, I am aware of the atheist perception.

My comments were aimed at people with a faith in God. If we can search for a greatest understanding of God, could it encourage us to work together for the good of mankind. If we believe in God, the only God worth searching for is the creator of all that is seen and unseen. It would then make sense that the same God hears all our prayers despite our differences. You will never look into the eyes of anyone who does not matter to God. If everyone matters to God, everyone should also matter to me.

People often don't care what other people believe, I think it becomes more important to know that other people care.

I imagine you might not be against people believing in God, if you saw them working together to make this world a kinder and more caring place to live for everyone. That has to include people of all faiths and none.

Sadly, I know this can't happen with all the past injustice in the world, but It would be a goal worth aiming towards.
 
moralorel said:
You might want to read the book that you originally used as a source. In that very book the author admits that we have no clue what is outside the universe. We don't have any evidence of what is outside of our universe. But to say there is no "outside of the universe" is an empty claim without any evidence to back it. Many scientists, including Strauss, have hypothesized what it is like outside of the universe. If there is no "outside of the universe", then do tell all of us where the universe is expanding into?
Click to expand...
I have read Michael Strauss' article on Sean Carroll. It is not serious, it is a fun piece, between two scientists, one being an atheist and the other being a theist or just taking a pot-shot. I do not take what Strauss' says as the last word on of the universe. There could be other parallel universes but they too will be bound within their own boundaries and we cannot communicate with them (Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia).

The real question about existence of the universe is "Zero-energy universe - Wikipedia". Like the universe came about quickly due to its own reason, it can also disappear just as quickly. The question is about phases, existence vs. non-existence.
 
Aupmanyav said:
I have read Michael Strauss' article on Sean Carroll. It is not serious, it is a fun piece, between two scientists, one being an atheist and the other being a theist or just taking a pot-shot. I do not take what Strauss' says as the last word on of the universe. There could be other parallel universes but they too will be bound within their own boundaries and we cannot communicate with them (Many-worlds interpretation - Wikipedia).

The real question about existence of the universe is "Zero-energy universe - Wikipedia". Like the universe came about quickly due to its own reason, it can also disappear just as quickly. The question is about phases, existence vs. non-existence.
Click to expand...
You don't take him seriously... but you used him as a source to back up your original claim. Fascinating!
 
moralorel said:
You don't take him seriously... but you used him as a source to back up your original claim. Fascinating!
Click to expand...
Did I? I don't think so. I checked on him only after you mentioned the article.
Sure, he is academically strong, Wikipedia says the book 'Welcome to the Univese' written by him, Neil deGrasse Tyson and J. Richard Gott mentions "why the "Big Bang model is far more than 'just a theory'". But then, he is a theist. That is why with all the knowledge that he has got, he has some weird ideas too.
 
Aupmanyav said:
Did I? I don't think so. I checked on him only after you mentioned the article.
Sure, he is academically strong, Wikipedia says the book 'Welcome to the Univese' written by him, Neil deGrasse Tyson and J. Richard Gott mentions "why the "Big Bang model is far more than 'just a theory'". But then, he is a theist. That is why with all the knowledge that he has got, he has some weird ideas too.
Click to expand...
He was mentioned as a source in the book and he is mentioned when speaking about the behavior of the outside of the universe.

Science obviously wouldn't progress if we didn't have weird ideas. I assume we can agree on that.
 
badger said:
Dunno.......... I don't know what caused the super-nova which producted the atoms that would form our solar system, but it sure exists!
Click to expand...
If we do not know, then we investigate and do not settle for whatever a Tom, Dick or Harry says.
 
moralorel said:
So it comes down to a definition technicality.

As I keep reading the most common answer to my question is.... "we don't know". Without observing the end of the universe, we can't for sure say if it has an "edge". But even more intriguing is that we have absolutely no clue what it is like outside of the universe.

So I did your research for you. You can not for sure claim there is no edge. Nor can you claim that there is an edge. We don't know how to define what we can't observe.
Click to expand...
There is no shame in not knowing. There is shame in not investigating or settling for false and convenient answers.
There is no evidence that there is an edge to the universe, so why should I accept it.
There is more evidence that it has none.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top