A world without the abrahamic revelatio...revolution.

wil

wil

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a figment of your imagination
So monotheism already existed or would have come around..but let's say no Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed...

Now the devil came along with those guys...so we have none of that.

This thread is to speculate as to what the world would be like.

What calendar would we use? What year would this be?

Which of the religions/gods would remain?

It's all speculation so can there even be wrong answers?

Would we be more philosophical, more scientific or would another religion have come forth?

Would our moral compass be any different?
 
wil said:
So monotheism already existed or would have come around..but let's say no Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed...

Now the devil came along with those guys...so we have none of that.

This thread is to speculate as to what the world would be like.

What calendar would we use? What year would this be?

Which of the religions/gods would remain?

It's all speculation so can there even be wrong answers?

Would we be more philosophical, more scientific or would another religion have come forth?

Would our moral compass be any different?
Click to expand...
Intriguing.
But can you be sure there is no devil without the figures you mentioned?
First I'm not sure how much Abraham or Moses thought about the devil in their theology (correct if I have missed something there)
I think the idea of the devil or Satan as personified is mostly New Testament.
There is some of that in Job though I think Jewish readings of it are different from Christian readings of the character of Satan.
AFAIK Job is one of the oldest books of the Hebrew Bible and Job is not depicted as an Israelite (anyone wiht more info can correct me on that)

Zoroastrian monotheism already existed and they had their ideas of Angra Mainyu, the destructive spirit and counterpart to God, Ahura Mazda.

It's hard to know whether the idea of a devil would have come from there or maybe elsewhere. If by any chance the devil is some kind of being, some kind of supernatural reality, I suppose people would have had some encounter at some point. If in fact the idea is a projection of something in human psychology / human brain /or human nature, as developed over millions of years, we still have that.

Or maybe the satan/devil idea would have had little impact.

I suspect if it had not been for the Abrahamic religions, there would have been the continued development of classical philosophy and forms of the classical religions, and scientific development, overlaid over European folk religions, if in fact powers in the Roman circle of influence had continued to dominate the continent.
 
wil said:
So monotheism already existed or would have come around..but let's say no Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed...

Now the devil came along with those guys...so we have none of that.

This thread is to speculate as to what the world would be like.

What calendar would we use? What year would this be?

Which of the religions/gods would remain?

It's all speculation so can there even be wrong answers?

Would we be more philosophical, more scientific or would another religion have come forth?

Would our moral compass be any different?
Click to expand...
Since, according to the Bible, Satan is the king of the Earth I would assume that nothing would be that different. The most shared deity in religions historically has been a serpent. No change there. Our calendar has so much pagan influence. No real change there. Boy bands would definitely still exist. There would just be no mention of abrahamic religion and no mention of Christ. Abrahamic religions wouldn't exist. Any religion not related to these prophets would most likely still exist.
 
@wil - There, for me, are too many variables, too many butterflies, to speculate what actually would have been, what actually would be if…. As I’m sure you know that kind of musing has fueled much speculative fiction by others.

@moralorel - Just a reminder that the Hebrew Tanakh does not postulate Satan as king of the Earth.

@TheLightWithin - Just a reminder, as well, that the story of Job has no character named Satan. There is a character who is referred to as the satan. It is a job description.
 
wil said:
So monotheism already existed or would have come around..but let's say no Abraham, Moses, Jesus, Mohamed...
Click to expand...
So no religions ... then we have philosophies.

wil said:
Now the devil came along with those guys...so we have none of that.
Click to expand...
Well there's evil in Plato ... so I'm not sure we'd have 'none of that' – the only way we'd have 'none of that' is if we were oblivious to human nature ...

wil said:
This thread is to speculate as to what the world would be like.
Click to expand...
I'm with @RabbiO
 
Thomas said:
Well there's evil in Plato
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Lol...we obviously had evil prior to creating a being to blame for our missgressions.
RabbiO said:
for me, are too many variables
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Yeah who knows? Seems 2k-4k years ago G!d connected with a ton of prophets...since then we've mostly been discussing what they wrote/said... wonder what the apologists would discuss if they had nothing to apologize for?

TheLightWithin said:
there would have been the continued development of classical philosophy and forms of the classical religions, and scientific development, overlaid over European folk religions,
Click to expand...
folk religions...European, African, American indigenous religions..twould be interesting. Out of Judaism which had its people...and was happy with that...grew Christianity and Islam....which was not happy with knowing their G!d themselves...but both are insitentent that everyone else know their G!d as they do...and have been traveling the world to tell everyone they are wrong...join our club.

Imagine and interfaith site with not 3k versions of Christianity...but 3k followers of different beliefs, exploring their similarities and differences.
moralorel said:
Boy bands would definitely still exist
Click to expand...
Dammit
 
Thomas said:
So no religions ... then we have philosophies.
Click to expand...
Absence of Abrahamic theories does not mean absence of religion. There were folk religions/paganism all through Europe.
Maybe the Norse mythologies would have gained dominance. Or the Druids. Or somebody else. Or...

It's impossible to ascertain actual, factual counterfactual outcomes, but this is a great question for speculative fiction.
 
RabbiO said:
@wil - There, for me, are too many variables, too many butterflies, to speculate what actually would have been, what actually would be if…. As I’m sure you know that kind of musing has fueled much speculative fiction by others.

@moralorel - Just a reminder that the Hebrew Tanakh does not postulate Satan as king of the Earth.

@TheLightWithin - Just a reminder, as well, that the story of Job has no character named Satan. There is a character who is referred to as the satan. It is a job description.
Click to expand...
Yes, I know. But unless I'm missing something, Jesus wasn't personally mentioned in the Tanakh. So I answered with Christian texts in mind.
 
moralorel said:
Yes, I know. But unless I'm missing something, Jesus wasn't personally mentioned in the Tanakh. So I answered with Christian texts in mind.
Click to expand...
Well, depending on with whom you speak -- there are those in Christendom who claim Jesus is referenced throughout the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. (I didn't even realize how many references people think there are until recently)
But really, it takes so much interpretation and supposition to see that.
 
TheLightWithin said:
Well, depending on with whom you speak -- there are those in Christendom who claim Jesus is referenced throughout the Old Testament/Hebrew Bible. (I didn't even realize how many references people think there are until recently)
But really, it takes so much interpretation and supposition to see that.
Click to expand...
I have stated such many times. My point was that Jesus was mentioned by Wil as one of the prophets who hypothetically would not exist. So that is why I brought Satan into the mix. I approached the question from a Christian perspective. RabbiO once again felt the need to remind me of something I have known for decades. Jewish tradition does not see Satan as a named figure. He doesn't realize that I used to break bread with Rabbis and ask many questions about scripture. Also learned how to make a proper potato pancake. And some awesome almond bread for Passover. Still waiting for the day that our beloved Rabbi teaches me something I don't already know.
 
@moralorel -

I’m always up to learning a possibly new to me receipe for potato latkes. Over the years I’ve been put in the position of enjoying many well made latkes and enduring a fair number of others.

On a more serious note, it is never my intention to talk down to anyone. If I offended I apologize. I find it difficult on a forum to assess a person’s knowledge base.
 
RabbiO said:
@moralorel -

I’m always up to learning a possibly new to me receipe for potato latkes. Over the years I’ve been put in the position of enjoying many well made latkes and enduring a fair number of others.

On a more serious note, it is never my intention to talk down to anyone. If I offended I apologize. I find it difficult on a forum to assess a person’s knowledge base.
Click to expand...
Understood. Not offended.

And I am definitely up to learning to latke recipes as well. My wife was hooked when I first cooked up a batch for her. I befriended an Italian rabbi and his family and was trained by his wife and daughter how to make nice latkes. I even make them while camping. They taste soooo good after being cooked over an open fire.
 
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