Hope is a Happy Accident of FAITH

[otherbrother]

Based on this poem (

Happy Accident



Hope is a happy accident of faith.

But don’t get over your skies,

lest you tumble down the slope of expectation,

where your broken body

of belief will freeze. )

I’d like to get your thoughts about “hope.” My thinking lately is that faith trumps hope by such a large margin that it is almost dangerous to promote hope that is not firmly rooted in faith. Dangerous because it potentially violates the need for managing expectations.
And, of course, by “faith” I mean the dynamic thing we do to cope unbelievably well at times, not one’s belief system.

 

[wil]

Me thinks expectations is crux of the biscuit here.

 

[RabbiO]

@otherbrother -

Could you further explain your meaning of “the dynamic thing we do to cope unbelievably well at times”? I’m trying to ascertain the extent to which we agree or disagree as to the meaning of “faith”.

 

[otherbrother]

Thanks for participating. I simply mean act of faith that helps us cope well, instead of the belief system. Adjective instead of noun?

 

[TheLightWithin]

Faith being the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen?
(Paraphrasing Hebrews 1:11)

 

[Craz]

Thanks for participating. I simply mean act of faith that helps us cope well, instead of the belief system. Adjective instead of noun?

Well, that makes sense to me. I'm off to have nice day now. Cheers.

 

[otherbrother]

Faith being the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen?
(Paraphrasing Hebrews 1:11)

I’ve never been fond of that definition. And not sure why. Too complicated? (That’s a hoot, considering it’s coming from me, a person known for complicated variations on the theme!). Hope placed up front too much (although “substance” suggests a solid base behind mere wishful hope)? Still not sure why it’s unsatisfying and even a bit offsetting to me. But it is.

It’s probably fine, but I prefer “applied grace” as the definition of faith. And the sports analogy of reaching down deep to summon one’s potential to win or succeed works also (maybe even better, since I see grace as coming from a “deep place”).
Here’s a new deep ditty that reflects my preference for going deep, for utilizing the fountain flowing deep and wide— my “depth dynamic being”:



If You Meet the Buddha on the Road…

The state of being
that many call grace
comes from a very,
very deep place.

Let me make one thing perfectly clear
(It’s a nugget of truth I love to share.):
For a God-shaped hole,
please don’t “insert here.”
Instead, take a chance
to emerge from there.

 

[otherbrother]

Well, that makes sense to me. I'm off to have nice day now. Cheers.

Good. Use faith to make it a nice day. Even if a bad day on the outside, use what God put (or just what naturally is, but we call it “God”) DEEP inside you to make lemonade out of its lemons.

 

[otherbrother]

Me thinks expectations is crux of the biscuit here.

When my wife did her first (and only!) backpacking trail with my two sons and me out west, it became very clear how important it was to manage her expectations. Hope of finishing any time soon would have crushed her once she saw the reality of how far we still had to go. But a “one-foot-in-front-of-the-other” steady and proactive “faith” that it would all somehow work out would offset (or make irrelevant) the discouraging thought about how far we really had to go, and how spent we already felt.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Good. Use faith to make it a nice day. Even if a bad day on the outside, use what God put (or just what naturally is, but we call it “God”) DEEP inside you to make lemonade out of its lemons.

..or, "look at the flowers and not the weeds".
i.e. positive thinking

Not at all easy in Winter's chill, with its aches and pains .. but we know that it will pass.

 

[muhammad_isa]

But a “one-foot-in-front-of-the-other” steady and proactive “faith” that it would all somehow work out would offset (or make irrelevant) the discouraging thought about how far we really had to go, and how spent we already felt.

..and plenty of plasters!
..and/or thick socks.

 

[otherbrother]

..or, "look at the flowers and not the weeds".
i.e. positive thinking

Not at all easy in Winter's chill, with its aches and pains .. but we know that it will pass.

But that mental ability, akin to creativity, may be a lot of what faith is. “Vision” keeps us on the trail of effective and meaningful living. Acceptance also seems part of the faith pie chart. One can accept the negative surface outcomes because he or she sees the potential. To me, potential comes from a deeper place. If we can go deeper and use potential as though it were an actual resource, we can make lemonade out of lemons. Creative living approximately equal to faith? At least a big part of the faith pie. And one that is much more proactive than many forms of “hope.”

 

[otherbrother]

..and plenty of plasters!
..and/or thick socks.

Yes, foot protection a valuable tool also!

 

[otherbrother]

@otherbrother -

Could you further explain your meaning of “the dynamic thing we do to cope unbelievably well at times”? I’m trying to ascertain the extent to which we agree or disagree as to the meaning of “faith”.

By “dynamic” I mean able to “move” mentally and spiritually to a deeper part of reality where potential rests, waiting to be actualized. Accessing and applying that potential seems to be much of what faith is. Those who sense positive potential persist faithfully.

 

[Tony Bristow-Stagg]

Faith being the substance of things hoped for, the evidence of things not seen?
(Paraphrasing Hebrews 1:11)

I’ve never been fond of that definition. And not sure why. Too complicated? (That’s a hoot, considering it’s coming from me, a person known for complicated variations on the theme!). Hope placed up front too much (although “substance” suggests a solid base behind mere wishful hope)? Still not sure why it’s unsatisfying and even a bit offsetting to me. But it is.

For me Hebrews 1:11 portrays that Faith is built on hope.

In Religion, we build a picture of the future based on what God has told us will unfold when we submit to following Christ and the pomisses of great things to come.

The promise is that God's Kingdom will be built on earth as it is in heaven, that we will be one people, under One God. That is what we hope will unfold, we have faith it will and submit in faith to all God's guidance that is required to acheive that, knowing that the path will have many challenges and setbacks.

I can see there is no stronger foundation for faith, than God given hope.

Any hopes for a future we try to build on humans expectations, will not ultimatly to build a strong faith, as in the blink of an eye ones hopes can be quashed and faith lost.

Regards Tony

 

[otherbrother]

For me Hebrews 1:11 portrays that Faith is built on hope.

In Religion, we build a picture of the future based on what God has told us will unfold when we submit to following Christ and the pomisses of great things to come.

The promise is that God's Kingdom will be built on earth as it is in heaven, that we will be one people, under One God. That is what we hope will unfold, we have faith it will and submit in faith to all God's guidance that is required to acheive that, knowing that the path will have many challenges and setbacks.

I can see there is no stronger foundation for faith, than God given hope.

Any hopes for a future we try to build on humans expectations, will not ultimatly to build a strong faith, as in the blink of an eye ones hopes can be quashed and faith lost.

Regards Tony

“Vision” may be the important bridge between faith and hope?

 

[otherbrother]

For me Hebrews 1:11 portrays that Faith is built on hope.

In Religion, we build a picture of the future based on what God has told us will unfold when we submit to following Christ and the pomisses of great things to come.

The promise is that God's Kingdom will be built on earth as it is in heaven, that we will be one people, under One God. That is what we hope will unfold, we have faith it will and submit in faith to all God's guidance that is required to acheive that, knowing that the path will have many challenges and setbacks.

I can see there is no stronger foundation for faith, than God given hope.

Any hopes for a future we try to build on humans expectations, will not ultimatly to build a strong faith, as in the blink of an eye ones hopes can be quashed and faith lost.

Regards Tony

Tony, Upon reading your comment about the book of Hebrews, most of the content was about VISION instead of hope per se. When we get a good idea in our minds, its potential is exciting and gives hope, but the hope is secondary to the power of the idea. We have the saying that “Where there’s a will, there’s a way.” But a visionary idea with significant potential to make life better makes the alternative saying “Where there’s a WAY, there’s a will” seem equally true. Innovation (even if still on the drawing board) brings hope and motivation. The hope is more or less a “happy accident” (like I claimed in my deep ditty poem) of a creative vision, which, in turn, is closer to proactive faith and will than it is to reactive and affect-laden hope. So, in a way, the new way that the vision creates is actually a will to improve. Imagine down and out people in the wilderness needing a means of improving their lot in life. They have a vision that comes from who knows where (they call it God, but it also came from a deep part of the thing we call “mind”). Out of their minds came previously unknown resources for adaptation. They experienced the realness and power of both potential and the mind capable of tapping into it. All of this is an unfolding of being— more output than input or “insert” (in my second deep ditty on this thread), albeit an output that comes from a beyond-ness deep within. It was true that God helped our religion’s founders, but it was not the whole truth. Mind Itself, accessed and activated at the deepest levels of reality, orchestrated a hopeful vision. Creativity, not hope, discovered previously unknown ways and resources.

 

[otherbrother]

Tony, Upon reading your comment about the book of Hebrews, most of the content was about VISION instead of hope per se. When we get a good idea in our minds, its potential is exciting and gives hope, but the hope is secondary to the power of the idea. We have the saying that “Where there’s a will, there’s a way.” But a visionary idea with significant potential to make life better makes the alternative saying “Where there’s a WAY, there’s a will” seem equally true. Innovation (even if still on the drawing board) brings hope and motivation. The hope is more or less a “happy accident” (like I claimed in my deep ditty poem) of a creative vision, which, in turn, is closer to proactive faith and will than it is to reactive and affect-laden hope. So, in a way, the new way that the vision creates is actually a will to improve. Imagine down and out people in the wilderness needing a means of improving their lot in life. They have a vision that comes from who knows where (they call it God, but it also came from a deep part of the thing we call “mind”). Out of their minds came previously unknown resources for adaptation. They experienced the realness and power of both potential and the mind capable of tapping into it. All of this is an unfolding of being— more output than input or “insert” (in my second deep ditty on this thread), albeit an output that comes from a beyond-ness deep within. It was true that God helped our religion’s founders, but it was not the whole truth. Mind Itself, accessed and activated at the deepest levels of reality, orchestrated a hopeful vision. Creativity, not hope, discovered previously unknown ways and resources.

A creative mind is not hopeful, it is busy looking for improvement—too busy to be hopeless, but also too busy to be full of hope. Hope is a byproduct of creative thought and creative living. Perhaps a creative mind is the key to what psychology theorist Erickson (or was it Maslow?) called “self actualization.” A self actualizing person is great at making lemonade out of lemons. They don’t hope. They create.

 

[otherbrother]

A creative mind is not hopeful, it is busy looking for improvement—too busy to be hopeless, but also too busy to be full of hope. Hope is a byproduct of creative thought and creative living. Perhaps a creative mind is the key to what psychology theorist Erickson (or was it Maslow?) called “self actualization.” A self actualizing person is great at making lemonade out of lemons. They don’t hope. They create.

I emailed the below message to my church’s pastor regarding his sermon’s emphasis on the vision of the Magi as they sought the Christ child. Although I don’t think he actually used the word “vision.” :

Your sermon was actually more about “vision”, which (during my philosophizing on an interfaith forum) appears to be an important bridge between faith and hope. Either way (with or without vision) hope must be rooted in, and stabilized by, FAITH. Without it, hope may be a means of political manipulation, not far off from using sports as distraction or the politics of fear and grievance (which we recently know all too well!). Religion needs to rid itself of being used for manipulating the masses.
Just my (humble?) opinions!
Your sermon was inspirational.

 

[TheLightWithin]

A creative mind is not hopeful, it is busy looking for improvement—too busy to be hopeless, but also too busy to be full of hope. Hope is a byproduct of creative thought and creative living. Perhaps a creative mind is the key to what psychology theorist Erickson (or was it Maslow?) called “self actualization.” A self actualizing person is great at making lemonade out of lemons. They don’t hope. They create.

Interesting. I don't know if I'd ever thought of the relationship between hope and creativity. If I had had to guess at a relationship I guess I would have thought that hope and creativity went together. "I'm going to invent this. Boy I hope it will work the first time! When it does work I have great hopes it will make a difference!" or something like that.