Honor thy Father and thy Mother

TheLightWithin said:
If I were going to convince anybody of anything, I guess I wish that people recognized/acknowledged religions as theories, imperfect or incomplete theories too, rather than insisting any one of them was absolutely true to the exclusion of all else.
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Well I'm sure secularists will be OK with that, but most of those with a religiouys insight or inclination might not.

And it is rather a limited either/or alternative.

If I were going to convince anybody of anything, I guess I wish that people recognized/acknowledged religions as encompassing paths to the transcendent, entirely sufficient in themselves.

Rather than insisting any one of them was absolutely true to the exclusion of all else, I would rather offer that each is exclusive in the aspect of needing no outside addition or commentary to explain itself.

And that every follower of every religion should look at everyone else with an eye to what binds us all together, rather than what holds us apart.
 
Thomas said:
If I were going to convince anybody of anything, I guess I wish that people recognized/acknowledged religions as encompassing paths to the transcendent, entirely sufficient in themselves.

Rather than insisting any one of them was absolutely true to the exclusion of all else, I would rather offer that each is exclusive in the aspect of needing no outside addition or commentary to explain itself.

And that every follower of every religion should look at everyone else with an eye to what binds us all together, rather than what holds us apart.
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This isn't bad.
Though I think this way is a little to limiting and either/or:
noting:
Thomas said:
entirely sufficient in themselves.
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Thomas said:
each is exclusive in the aspect of needing no outside addition or commentary to explain itself.
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What if someone just doesn't think so? 🤔
 
TheLightWithin said:
I'm not sure how.
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Because what's offered is a view of religion that is either "theories, imperfect or incomplete theories too"
Which I don't accept, but

"rather than insisting any one of them was absolutely true to the exclusion of all else."
I don't quite accept either.
 
TheLightWithin said:
What if someone just doesn't think so? 🤔
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Then they'd have to evidence how they think the religion is deficient. And they's have to evidence a complete understanding of e religion to offer a critique.

I find fault with religious institutions, but then I see there are flaws and faults in all our institutions, which I tend to think says more about us than about the institution ... in short, do away with that institution and the flaws/faults will appear somewhere else.

On a more personal note, I tend to find the critique of religions repetitive and tiresome.
 
Aupmanyav said:
:) Transcendent? What is that?
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Well if we treat of the world as a whole, then it's all contingency.

The transcendentals speak of an ontology of being as such ... I suppose the first question being, 'why does anything exist at all?'
 
muhammad_isa said:
Criminals object to "the law" as well.
There will always be people who object to what other people follow, or establish.
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:) I am not talking of criminals. I am talking of religions that separate one from the other.

"Dhimmis were subject to specific restrictions as well, which were codified in agreements like the Pact of ʿUmar. These included prohibitions on building new places of worship, repairing existing ones in areas where Muslims lived, teaching children the Qurʾān, and preventing relatives from converting to Islam. They were also required to wear distinctive clothing, refrain from carrying weapons, and avoid riding on saddles." - Wikipedia

This is about Pact of Umar, In practice, non-Muslims are treated with worse than this in some Muslim countries.
 
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Aupmanyav said:
:) I am not talking of criminals. I am talking of religions that separate one from the other.

"Dhimmis were subject to specific restrictions as well, which were codified in agreements like the Pact of ʿUmar. These included prohibitions on building new places of worship, repairing existing ones in areas where Muslims lived, teaching children the Qurʾān, and preventing relatives from converting to Islam. They were also required to wear distinctive clothing, refrain from carrying weapons, and avoid riding on saddles." - Wikipedia

This is about Pact of Umar, In practice, non-Muslims are treated with worse than this in some Muslim countries.
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Well, that is about law .. I wonder how Russians treat Ukranians, these days. 😐

It is a fact of life .. some people can be trusted, and some not.
It's not reasonable to fight a war alongside a person who is likely to be treacherous, for example.

It is easy to take modern secular societies for granted .. who knows what tomorrow will bring.
Perpetual change .. that's life.
 
No serious religion doesn't "demand" appreciation toward the liberality of one's parents, good householder. Nobody asked you to take on given opportunity to take birth and what ever large or little hospitality. Ideas of rejecting goodness received come along with wrong view, ideas of having a right and denying one's first gods. It's impossible to grow spiritual and gain certain or real liberation for one without gratitude, good householder.

One might not remember or got known the goodness received, yet on can take it in good faith that one didn't had anything at the time of taking on birth in a womb, no bodily means, food, shelter, cloth, skills, language... it was all given on their own choice.
It's even seldom to get not aborted or carry on supported. Nobody else did that for one.

* How to repay the debt we owe to our Parents: AN 2.32
* The anguish an aging Parents feels when his children show no gratitude: SN 7.14
* Parents should at least make sure that their children grow up to respect the precepts: Iti 74
* One's Parents should be respected as great teachers and devas: Iti 106
* Supporting one's Parents: Sn 2.4
* At one time or another, we have all been each other's Parents: SN 15.14
* Reverence for one's Parents as a blessing: Dhp 332
* Childrens' duties to their parents: DN 31
* Parents' duties to their children: DN 31
* Permission from one's Parents is a prerequisite for ordination/higher spiritual life: MN 82
It's not so that one needs to honor wrong, but such wouldn't make given and received of goodness to something one doesn't owe debts.
This was said by the Blessed One, said by the Arahant, so I have heard: “Living with Brahma (God) are those families where, in the home, mother & father are revered by the children. Living with the first devas are those families where, in the home, mother & father are revered by the children. Living with the first teachers are those families where, in the home, mother & father are revered by the children. Living with those worthy of gifts are those families where, in the home, mother & father are revered by the children. 'Brahma' is a designation for mother & father. 'The first devas' is a designation for mother & father. 'The first teachers' is a designation for mother & father. 'Those worthy of gifts' is a designation for mother & father. Why is that? Mother & father do much for their children. They care for them, nourish them, introduce them to this world.”
Mother & father,compassionate to their family,
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are called Brahma, first teachers, those worthy of gifts from their children.So the wise should pay them homage, honor with food & drink clothing & bedding anointing & bathing & washing their feet.Performing these services to their parents,the wise are praised right here and after death rejoice in heaven.
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See also: AN 2.31
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Aond some useful talks on this matter, hardly any good person of any religion, wouldn't enjoy:

The Lessons of Gratitude, by Ven. Ajahn Thanissaro,
The Right Angle: It’s Never Wrong, by Venerable Luang Por Liam Thitadhammo and
Gratitude, by Ven. Maha Boowa Ñanasampanno,
Parents: Two short Talks on Gratitude, by Ven. Thanissaro Bhikkhu
 
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