Religion as Self Fulfilling Prophecy

Old testament is Hebrew and most of new testament is Greek, written by Paul.
Right, that's well known. And not really in reference to my point.
What I was referring to was your quote of Proverbs and the reference to Christ
Proverbs 5::21. For your ways are in full view of the Lord, and he examines all your paths.
5:22. The evil deeds of the wicked ensnare them, the cords of there sins hold them fast.

There own sins destroy them. They won't repent. They hate God and body of Christ.
That is a Christian perspective, just a reminder that Judaism does not interpret passages of the Hebrew Bible in the same way.
 
Same story for me, but I do see the need to relax into a gapless, convergent, nondual, base that helps the efforts to make a better world emerge more gracefully and fresher, fuller—similar to how the mind can create better and think clearer soon after waking up. Hence the saying “I need to sleep on it.” The effort to do good pulls us to the surface and further from the source if we try too much or too hard (which seems to be our tendency, when we are not giving up altogether). The good God is the one we need but if we are stuck on our concept of good, it may not be the Full God. We must truly let go and then strive with a more relaxed grip on our doing of good. But not just let go and let God, because then we introduce the gap/separation that our Hindu friend (and me too) sense to get in the way of full understanding and full living. Perhaps Let go and let God guide our intentional efforts? A fountain flowing through us as us.
I see a need for non-duality also, but I'm not sure what to do about it, any more than what I'm already doing.

If the question is what to do with our natural impulse to want to help make the world better for all people, what I'm thinking most of all now is to stop denying, repressing and stigmatizing that part of our nature, and not blame the misuses on the impulse itself.

People without sufficient resources need to create more resources or make better use of the resources they had. How could one (or a group) do that? Find something that can create. The regular human mind can dream up all sorts of things and then create them. But a yet deeper Mind is needed when the situation seems impossible. More creative ability than we normally have. So they found the Creator/Father from which the mind could create needed resources or ways. Is it a separate being, or the very base of each of our being? Maybe it doesn’t matter as long as it works.
Separate being or very base of each of our being looks like a false dichotomy to me.
 
Hebrew scriptures are Hebrew, but Old Testament, maybe not. In my story, there's a very consequential difference between Hebrew scriptures and the Old Testament.
I respect your thoughts and beliefs. I have strongs concordance of the Bible. Hebrew and Greek.
Old testament is Hebrew.
New testament is mostly Greek.
This is my side of the story.
Take care.
 
Separate being or very base of each of our being looks like a false dichotomy to me.
I agree. Down or in deep at our base is probably a non dual highly convergent Reality. That deep in, “self” or “other” does not apply, as they are from the relativistic surface of overall reality.
In page 6 of the book Paths to Transcendence, that Thomas recommended to me, it says it a bit differently (than in terms of “depth”) but I think the logic is very similar to my difference-according-to-depth-level concept of a relationship between non dual and duality:
It may be objected here that the Advaita principle is violated: there is one Absolute that is associated with relativity (Apara Brahman) and another that is not (Para Brahman). But this objection would be valid only if it were established that the Absolute undergoes real modification by virtue of its “association” with adjuncts; only then would there be a fundamental dualism constructed by the adjunctless Absolute, on the one hand, and the Absolute associated with adjuncts, on the other. Such a dualism, however, is precluded for Shankara by the fact that no such modification takes place in reality, since the “association” in question is but an appearance, an illusory projection of the Real which cannot, qua illusion, constitute any element or “pole”, such as could allow of an irreducible duo-dimensionality of the Absolute:

The Lordship, omniscience, and omnipotence of the Lord exist relative to the limitations and distinctions of ignorance only, and in reality there can be no practice of rulership or omniscience on the part of the Self, in which all distinctions remain eternally negated in knowledge (Creation,66).

This does not deny the relative reality of the divine attributes themselves nor does it deny that the attributes do indeed pertain to the One Absolute; that the Absolute is the omnipotent Creator and the omniscient Witness is affirmed as a reality that is mediated through the UPADHIS and received by all created beings. These attributes are the forms in which the One relates to the world, and for as long as worldly experience holds; what Shakara does deny is the ultimate metaphysical reality of this whole domain of relations and distinctions, “set up by ignorance”: the One appears as many in relation to a world that is itself illusory. Thus:

Non duality, which is the Supreme reality appears manifold through MAYA, like the one moon appearing as many to one with defective eye-sight….This manifold is not real, for ATMAN is without any part….It cannot in any manner admit of distinction excepting through MAYA (Karika, III, 19).

——————-

All this odd logic is made much simpler to me if I assume there is a difference between Deep Reality and surface reality. The fountain flows from Deep, out into the surface where we live out our physical existence. My depth dynamic view of overall reality may be but another metaphor, but at least it is a USEFUL metaphor for me. I can relate to “going deep” and bringing what is sensed from the depth of being into the surface expression of that very being. The being-fountain takes on different forms as it flows into the world.

One can get a similar dynamic by looking at one’s own mind that is having thoughts. The individual thoughts are NOT the mind itself, but are particular expressions of a mind that can only be sensed as an undifferentiated something or other behind the thoughts.
 
I agree. Down or in deep at our base is probably a non dual highly convergent Reality. That deep in, “self” or “other” does not apply, as they are from the relativistic surface of overall reality.
In page 6 of the book Paths to Transcendence, that Thomas recommended to me, it says it a bit differently (than in terms of “depth”) but I think the logic is very similar to my difference-according-to-depth-level concept of a relationship between non dual and duality:
It may be objected here that the Advaita principle is violated: there is one Absolute that is associated with relativity (Apara Brahman) and another that is not (Para Brahman). But this objection would be valid only if it were established that the Absolute undergoes real modification by virtue of its “association” with adjuncts; only then would there be a fundamental dualism constructed by the adjunctless Absolute, on the one hand, and the Absolute associated with adjuncts, on the other. Such a dualism, however, is precluded for Shankara by the fact that no such modification takes place in reality, since the “association” in question is but an appearance, an illusory projection of the Real which cannot, qua illusion, constitute any element or “pole”, such as could allow of an irreducible duo-dimensionality of the Absolute:

The Lordship, omniscience, and omnipotence of the Lord exist relative to the limitations and distinctions of ignorance only, and in reality there can be no practice of rulership or omniscience on the part of the Self, in which all distinctions remain eternally negated in knowledge (Creation,66).

This does not deny the relative reality of the divine attributes themselves nor does it deny that the attributes do indeed pertain to the One Absolute; that the Absolute is the omnipotent Creator and the omniscient Witness is affirmed as a reality that is mediated through the UPADHIS and received by all created beings. These attributes are the forms in which the One relates to the world, and for as long as worldly experience holds; what Shakara does deny is the ultimate metaphysical reality of this whole domain of relations and distinctions, “set up by ignorance”: the One appears as many in relation to a world that is itself illusory. Thus:

Non duality, which is the Supreme reality appears manifold through MAYA, like the one moon appearing as many to one with defective eye-sight….This manifold is not real, for ATMAN is without any part….It cannot in any manner admit of distinction excepting through MAYA (Karika, III, 19).

——————-

All this odd logic is made much simpler to me if I assume there is a difference between Deep Reality and surface reality. The fountain flows from Deep, out into the surface where we live out our physical existence. My depth dynamic view of overall reality may be but another metaphor, but at least it is a USEFUL metaphor for me. I can relate to “going deep” and bringing what is sensed from the depth of being into the surface expression of that very being. The being-fountain takes on different forms as it flows into the world.

One can get a similar dynamic by looking at one’s own mind that is having thoughts. The individual thoughts are NOT the mind itself, but are particular expressions of a mind that can only be sensed as an undifferentiated something or other behind the thoughts.
The human mind can sense Oneness and it also can sense difference. And apparently we need BOTH, not either/or. So, a depth dynamic view of overall reality that posits a difference in levels of convergence deep in vs out at the surface seems a good metaphysical concept that allows for a paradoxical holding of Oneness and Manyness.
Another reason I embrace that depth dynamic concept is that it fits with what at least certain quantum physicists are thinking, that there is an “ontological,” real quantum substrate. Science seems to embrace a depth dynamic model like the old “Fountain flowing deep and wide” that I was exposed to in Christianity, even though it was more of an insert or adjunct than the main focus. But the Fountain works awfully well for me, and is central to my own belief.
 
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