Do we choose what we believe?

[Blindwatchmaker]

I'm writing a book on the nature of belief and would really value your input.

I've added a simple Yes/No poll to ask: Do you think belief is something we choose?

If your answer is more nuanced — for example, if you think it depends — please feel free to comment and explain what you believe determines whether a particular belief is chosen or not.

Many thanks!

 

[muhammad_isa]

I'm writing a book on the nature of belief and would really value your input.

I've added a simple Yes/No poll to ask: Do you think belief is something we choose?

If your answer is more nuanced — for example, if you think it depends — please feel free to comment and explain what you believe determines whether a particular belief is chosen or not.

Many thanks!

I think it's a complex question. The question needs to be more specific.
If it is asked "do we choose what to follow?", then I would say the answer is yes.
If it is asked "do we choose to believe in G-d?", then I would say the answer is
neither yes or no.
Indirectly, I think we choose .. because the path we follow, influences what we believe.

Welcome to the forum, by the way.

 

[Blindwatchmaker]

I mean do we choose what we consider to be true...

(and many thanks for your reply and for the kind welcome!)

 

[Aupmanyav]

Welcome to the forum. I did not vote because IMHO, what we choose depends on what we learn before the e.final choice. That is childhood learning, education, society, religious and personal experiences in life. I would say it is not a free-choice but conditioned.
I chose to be an atheist Hindu.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Beliefs and feelings tend to be involuntary - being convinced something is true is not something we can force or fake.
Imagine if I told everybody I was 200 years old. Nobody could believe that by choice.

We can choose our actions.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Beliefs and feelings tend to be involuntary - being convinced something is true is not something we can force or fake.
We can choose our actions.

That is what I said. We go through a process of involuntary acceptance to a critical acceptance later in life.
Even the choice of actions is most of the time involuntary, sort of automatic based on our learning..
To act critically, analytically, is a reserve of wise people.

 

[Ahanu]

I'm writing a book on the nature of belief and would really value your input.

I've added a simple Yes/No poll to ask: Do you think belief is something we choose?

If your answer is more nuanced — for example, if you think it depends — please feel free to comment and explain what you believe determines whether a particular belief is chosen or not.

Many thanks!

A simple yes-no answer does not apply, because choosing is a skill which most human beings have the freedom to develop.

The choice part of belief emerges when a seeker develops the capacity and willingness to question their inherited currents, and then swim against the stream using their abilities to self-reflect, gather more information, and analyze things with a critical eye.

 

[Blindwatchmaker]

Thank you for the replies.

My view is that not only do we not choose our beliefs — we cannot.
(Broadly in agreement with what TheLightWithin said.)

Belief isn’t something we generate by an act of will. It follows — involuntarily — from becoming convinced by something. We can’t simply decide to believe any more than we can choose to find a joke funny or a claim credible.

That said, we can choose to orient ourselves toward a belief — by reading certain books, spending time in particular communities, or exposing ourselves to persuasive arguments. But even then, whether belief arises is not under our control. It’s something we discover happening (or not happening) inside us — not something we can will into being.

And if that’s true, it has profound moral implications for any system that makes salvation, judgment, or moral standing contingent on what a person believes to be true.

 

[Ahanu]

That said, we can choose to orient ourselves toward a belief

Sounds like the crux of the matter. To what degree does this voluntary choice heavily influence my belief?

You are already implying a degree of indirect choice in the process.

— by reading certain books, spending time in particular communities, or exposing ourselves to persuasive arguments. But even then, whether belief arises is not under our control. It’s something we discover happening (or not happening) inside us — not something we can will into being.

For example, John Doe decides to exclusively read material about one end of the political spectrum. From this chosen spectrum he only reads their books, scrolls through their newsfeeds online, and watches their podcasts.

He actively creates his own echo chamber as a result.

Now imagine John has been living in this self-selected echo chamber for many years!

The belief that aligns with this curated reality starts to feel likely. It begins to feel like the only reasonable conclusion. His feeling of conviction might seem involuntary as it arises, but we can all say it arose from his disciplined effort with his chosen information diet that he observed every day without fail. He created a certain environment for certain feelings and beliefs to arise.

 

[Blindwatchmaker]

Great response — and I appreciate the nuance you're bringing.

You're absolutely right that we can shape the environment in which belief is more or less likely to arise. We can choose what we read, who we spend time with, what ideas we expose ourselves to. Those indirect choices matter. They help explain how some beliefs take root and others don’t. So yes — we can influence belief. But that’s not the same as choosing it.

Because here’s the deeper issue: influence isn’t control, and effort doesn’t guarantee conviction.

There are countless examples of people who have done all the “right” things — opened themselves up to belief, read the scriptures, prayed, pleaded, surrounded themselves with believers, sincerely tried to find faith — and still found that belief did not come. They were not being stubborn or rebellious. They were simply not convinced. That was me for many years. And just as you can’t force yourself to find a joke funny, you can’t force yourself to find a claim credible. That sense of conviction has to arise — and it either does or it doesn’t.

Even in the echo chamber scenario you described — someone immersing themselves in a particular worldview — the feeling of belief may emerge, but it still isn’t summoned by will. It's the product of exposure and reinforcement. And crucially, even that effect doesn’t always work. Plenty of people remain resistant to belief despite intense pressure to conform — and others fall into belief despite exposure to very little.

That unpredictability is part of the point: belief is not a choice, it’s a psychological outcome.

So yes, we’re responsible for the effort we make — the honesty, openness, and intellectual integrity we bring to the table. But if belief is not something we can choose directly, then moral or eternal judgment should never hinge on whether that belief arose in us. Surely the better standard is sincerity, not assent?

 

[Aupmanyav]

Great response — and I appreciate the nuance you're bringing.

You're absolutely right that we can shape the environment in which belief is more or less likely to arise. We can choose what we read, who we spend time with, what ideas we expose ourselves to. Those indirect choices matter. They help explain how some beliefs take root and others don’t. So yes — we can influence belief. But that’s not the same as choosing it.

Because here’s the deeper issue: influence isn’t control, and effort doesn’t guarantee conviction.

There are countless examples of people who have done all the “right” things — opened themselves up to belief, read the scriptures, prayed, pleaded, surrounded themselves with believers, sincerely tried to find faith — and still found that belief did not come. They were not being stubborn or rebellious. They were simply not convinced. That was me for many years. And just as you can’t force yourself to find a joke funny, you can’t force yourself to find a claim credible. That sense of conviction has to arise — and it either does or it doesn’t.

Even in the echo chamber scenario you described — someone immersing themselves in a particular worldview — the feeling of belief may emerge, but it still isn’t summoned by will. It's the product of exposure and reinforcement. And crucially, even that effect doesn’t always work. Plenty of people remain resistant to belief despite intense pressure to conform — and others fall into belief despite exposure to very little.

That unpredictability is part of the point: belief is not a choice, it’s a psychological outcome.

So yes, we’re responsible for the effort we make — the honesty, openness, and intellectual integrity we bring to the table. But if belief is not something we can choose directly, then moral or eternal judgment should never hinge on whether that belief arose in us. Surely the better standard is sincerity, not assent?

A winner here. ^^^

 

[Ahanu]

Great response — and I appreciate the nuance you're bringing.

You're absolutely right that we can shape the environment in which belief is more or less likely to arise. We can choose what we read, who we spend time with, what ideas we expose ourselves to. Those indirect choices matter. They help explain how some beliefs take root and others don’t. So yes — we can influence belief. But that’s not the same as choosing it.

Because here’s the deeper issue: influence isn’t control, and effort doesn’t guarantee conviction.

There are countless examples of people who have done all the “right” things — opened themselves up to belief, read the scriptures, prayed, pleaded, surrounded themselves with believers, sincerely tried to find faith — and still found that belief did not come. They were not being stubborn or rebellious. They were simply not convinced. That was me for many years. And just as you can’t force yourself to find a joke funny, you can’t force yourself to find a claim credible. That sense of conviction has to arise — and it either does or it doesn’t.

Even in the echo chamber scenario you described — someone immersing themselves in a particular worldview — the feeling of belief may emerge, but it still isn’t summoned by will. It's the product of exposure and reinforcement. And crucially, even that effect doesn’t always work. Plenty of people remain resistant to belief despite intense pressure to conform — and others fall into belief despite exposure to very little.

That unpredictability is part of the point: belief is not a choice, it’s a psychological outcome.

So yes, we’re responsible for the effort we make — the honesty, openness, and intellectual integrity we bring to the table. But if belief is not something we can choose directly, then moral or eternal judgment should never hinge on whether that belief arose in us. Surely the better standard is sincerity, not assent?

A winner here. ^^^

Ah! But since the point is that belief is involuntary and cannot be chosen, perhaps a winner here was not chosen either! Oh, please excuse my involuntary response, which includes my laughter, sensing it is funny, and the endless sarcasm swirling in my head right now.

 

[Blindwatchmaker]

Ahanu
You're absolutely right.
Whether you find something funny (as with what you believe) is also not something you choose.

 

[Ahanu]

Ahanu
You're absolutely right.
Whether you find something funny (as with what you believe) is also not something you choose.

Yes, it is involuntary.

I am more interested in what motivates an individual to believe in such a belief.

 

[Ahanu]

Ahanu
You're absolutely right.
Whether you find something funny (as with what you believe) is also not something you choose.

Not sure why you think I am absolutely right. Asking for you to excuse me (when assuming such a belief to be true) is itself nonsensical.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Ah! But since the point is that belief is involuntary and cannot be chosen, perhaps a winner here was not chosen either! Oh, please excuse my involuntary response, which includes my laughter, sensing it is funny, and the endless sarcasm swirling in my head right now.

Do some meditation. Calm your monkey mind.

Yes, it is involuntary. I am more interested in what motivates an individual to believe in such a belief.

Mostly ignorance, sometimes willful.

 

[otherbrother]

Welcome to the forum. I did not vote because IMHO, what we choose depends on what we learn before the e.final choice. That is childhood learning, education, society, religious and personal experiences in life. I would say it is not a free-choice but conditioned.
I chose to be an atheist Hindu.

But we choose to go along with the conditioning. The possibility of free “propreoceptive” mental activity that David Bohm, in his book Thought As A System holds up as an alternative to the conditioned thought we often succumb to, allows us to come up with new insights instead of being caught up in conditioned loops. Basically he points out that most of us are “thoughting” (my word for it) instead of truly thinking with a more open mind. We are simply recycling thoughts given to us or old thoughts we had in the past. But I maintain that we CHOOSE to do so instead of choosing to use the whole mind (behind/beyond the old thoughts) to synthesize/create new views and ideas. If whole mind, or a close approximation thereof is chosen and used, then something from another dimension can offset the closed systems (and the inevitable entropy that results from it) and bring breath to lifeless flesh. We can choose Mind (God?) over matter.

 

[Ahanu]

Do some meditation. Calm your monkey mind.

Since beliefs are involuntary, I can involuntarily choose not to do some meditation and involuntarily choose not to calm the monkey mind.

You are not assuming I possess top-down agency in order to calm my mind, are you? If so, that would allow a window for top-down agency on the macroscale too. Can't have that in an atheistic worldview? Involuntary acts all the way down?

 

[Blindwatchmaker]

For clarity, my argument doesn't require the rejection of all free will. .I think those arguments have some merit and are interesting but for this one, I'm happy to concede that we have libertarian free will.
But it's still the case that belief can only happen when you are convinced of something (even if that's simply that its not certain but more likely than not).
And being convinced is not an act of will. It's something we discover about ourselves.

 

[Aupmanyav]

Since beliefs are involuntary, I can involuntarily choose not to do some meditation and involuntarily choose not to calm the monkey mind.

You are not assuming I possess top-down agency in order to calm my mind, are you? If so, that would allow a window for top-down agency on the macroscale too. Can't have that in an atheistic worldview? Involuntary acts all the way down?

One can't think straight with a monkey mind.
@Blindwatchmaker did not reject free-will altogether. As an atheist, also do not reject free-will altogether. I said it is conditional (my post, #4), based on childhood indoctrination, religious influences, education, social and personal experiences. These conditions differ from one person to another.