Do we choose what we believe?

[TheLightWithin]

My input. The Bible teaches that faith and belief are a choice, but suggest that God initiated true belief. Belief is portrayed as conscious decision. Jesus says, If I tell you, you believe not. Luke 22:67. So belief is matter of individual choice.

However, Bible says true belief is a gift from God, Ephesians 1:13. Believers are sealed by God's Spirit. We either have faith or lack of faith.

Intriguing. On one hand presented as a choice, on the other hand presented as a gift.

 

[TheLightWithin]

For those who don't think it's a choice, I'll just redirect you to this thread whenever I don't believe your argument. It's not my fault nor my choice to believe what you are telling me... or so I'm told.

That's why it's always good to try to figure out someone's thought process and content if you are trying to persuade them of something. Figure out what might be in the way of them accepting your argument. Do they lack knowledge you have? Do they have knowledge you lack? Is there faulty reasoning involved (people generally don't consciously opt for faulty reasoning, for one reason or another they think their reasoning is good)

This is helpful but double edged - we may get at how someone's incorrect thoughts and beliefs are preventing them from accepting our argument. But there is a risk we could uncover an error on either our own part or on the part of the source we are getting our information from. Then we have to reassess.

 

[Longfellow]

Your whole comment is so good, and this particular point is so good - it really explains what I recognize is true both of the world - this world that we know or sort-of know- and doubly or exponentially so of whatever may be true in the realm of G-d and the supernatural - hence I am convinced (involuntarily, I cannot see any reason to think otherwise) that nobody can really, truly, rationally, say they "know" the "truth" about any spiritual claim whatsoever. I know others will think differently, because somehow, for some reason, they think they can.

I think of our views as projections of reality in our minds, and like flat map projections of the earth's surface they can never perfectly represent it. Different projections are better for different purposes, and there is no single projection that is best for all purposes. Also it's interesting to me that the most useful projection for navigation has no north or south pole, but that doesn't mean the they don't exist.

 

[Aupmanyav]

What's a Merc? Some kind of unit of measurement maybe?

A Mercedes Benz Sedan.

 

[TheLightWithin]

A Mercedes Benz Sedan.

I see the reference now, but didn't make sense of it from the context

 

[moralorel]

That's why it's always good to try to figure out someone's thought process and content if you are trying to persuade them of something. Figure out what might be in the way of them accepting your argument. Do they lack knowledge you have? Do they have knowledge you lack? Is there faulty reasoning involved (people generally don't consciously opt for faulty reasoning, for one reason or another they think their reasoning is good)

This is helpful but double edged - we may get at how someone's incorrect thoughts and beliefs are preventing them from accepting our argument. But there is a risk we could uncover an error on either our own part or on the part of the source we are getting our information from. Then we have to reassess.

I agree. And it is what I often do.

 

[moralorel]

If a flat earther were put up against the reality of being on the ISS they would have to process what they were seeing, and then we'd see how some people might try to double down, possibly to avoid the shame of admitting they were wrong even if deep down they know they are, or whether somehow they really cannot connect what they are seeing to reality. Or whether some would admit they were wrong as they could not and would not deny reality. Or whether they would say "I see it NOW you dingdongs but you never gave me the proof before" or whatever. I'd love to be the one to conduct the debriefing interview.

But it shouldn't come down to having to spend time on the ISS. The obvious proof is already there. I have a hard time believing that flat earthers are without blame for their fallacy of a belief.

 

[moralorel]

Does it suggest that consciousness might be a nonlocal sort of thing that energy-processing devices that might have something in common with the energy processing device we call our brain can channel. While “mind” seems a subjective reality, one might guess that it operates more like energy fields and flows than other “things” in life. Could energy, even the electric passing through a computer, be a gateway to mind and consciousness? Our bias is to think of a computer as a thing, but energy patterns such as electromagnetic fields may be a doorway to “mind” and consciousness? Could the computers tap into a store of non local information akin to God’s mind?
Or is it just a surface non-reflective representation of “deep thoughts?”

No. It just pointed out how unexpected it was. That was all.

 

[TheLightWithin]

But it shouldn't come down to having to spend time on the ISS. The obvious proof is already there. I have a hard time believing that flat earthers are without blame for their fallacy of a belief.

I would like to blame them too. How dare they.
Causing so much needless confusion.
I don't know what their thought content is, though, whether they are sincere and simply not comprehending the "obvious proof" and/or are really taken in by conspiracy theories,OR: pretending to believe in a flat earth though they know better and are just being contrary, OR are so upset by the idea of a round earth and covering their ears and saying lalalala to avoid evidence (the latter two being the most blameworthy scenarios)

I suppose ALL of those scenarios and more are possible given the supposed number of flat earthers.