Torah and Old Testament

[InLove]

Thank you all so much--I didn't even have to ask anything yet, and now I understand so much more while at the same time still being confused.

But, then, I come to be educated.

InPeace,
InLove

 

[dauer]

Could you please elaborate by what you mean "Western Approach" ?
For some reason I cannot read Dion Fortune's Mystical Qabbalah, Crowley's, Mathers, and others take on Kabbalah. I prefer what you might term "rabbinical" or "classical" Kabbalah.

No no no. I'm not talking about any of that stuff. I'm talking about a Western scholarly approach, looking at it like any other type of literature. Personally, I don't think the Western approach alone is a good way to go but it does seem to be a good temper.

I didn't have the time to sift through other sites.
Here are more:

The main thing that struck me I guess is the way it was stated, it's kinda like a boxer fighting in their hometown and the announcer booms, "In the red trunks,5 foot 11, 210 pounds of pure muscle, the Jewish Jabbowski, the Bronx Buster, the Shtetl of Rock Hard Metal, intercontinental super duper champion of the wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorld Mendel "The Jew" Chan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

But there really was no good reason for me to say what I did.

Dauer

 

[human1111]

No no no. I'm not talking about any of that stuff. I'm talking about a Western scholarly approach, looking at it like any other type of literature. Personally, I don't think the Western approach alone is a good way to go but it does seem to be a good temper.

I like to study to change myself and accomplish something, I am not a historian. Of course I keep a critical eye on everything, but today in rapidly deteriorating society we need help and as we see it has to come from Above to help us.

The main thing that struck me I guess is the way it was stated, it's kinda like a boxer fighting in their hometown and the announcer booms, "In the red trunks,5 foot 11, 210 pounds of pure muscle, the Jewish Jabbowski, the Bronx Buster, the Shtetl of Rock Hard Metal, intercontinental super duper champion of the wooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooorld Mendel "The Jew" Chan!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
But there really was no good reason for me to say what I did.
Dauer

In today's dog-eat-dog world, you HAVE to have a confidence and I guess a little bit of "arrogance" in order to spread your teaching. Otherwise nobody would choose it. Look at Christianity and the way it has spread. We can learn a thing or two from THEIR method, which was painful but effective. Xtianity is #1 on popularity (I belive), not because it was passive and submissive. It is sad, but C'est le vie.

 

[dayaa]

hello/shalom
sorry, butting in on this conversation....i was reading this thread to try to find answers to some of my questions....i thought abraham was from an area which would be in present day iraq and the languages of the area are related for example aramaic and arabic. spoken arabic has some similarites with hebrew but at some point i was looking at some zoroastrian texts shown in the original language and the script looks very much like arabic. there are also some similarities between arabic script and hebrew script.
i have two questions i would like to ask please:
firstly what is the oldest hebrew scripture still existing to the present day (i mean actual written book) and when does it date back to? i am asking this question in terms of being able to compare texts with "originals" for validity and lack of corrupted text.
secondly, for a non hebrew speaker who has to rely on translations what would be the best way to compare jewish scriptures with christian versions? without trying to read all of it twice, side by side which would be very time consuming.......for example would it be an acceptable method of study to read the christian version but where it is given a christian interpretation, to cross reference it with a jewish version?
really it's very difficult to know where to start. everyone claims that their religion is the right one and everyone accuses everyone else of corrupting texts etc etc. i just want to read and make up my own mind, but even that becomes difficult if you don't know which version of which book to read
thankyou for your help

 

[human1111]

hello/shalom
firstly what is the oldest hebrew scripture still existing to the present day (i mean actual written book) and when does it date back to? i am asking this question in terms of being able to compare texts with "originals" for validity and lack of corrupted text.

If you follow the orthodox Kabbalistic dates then Sefer Yetzirah at around ~1811-1600 BC was written in Hebrew by Abraham.
(In what language was Malah Raziel written, the book attributed to Adam. Was it in Hebrew? If so, than it was ~ 3760 BC)

secondly, for a non hebrew speaker who has to rely on translations what would be the best way to compare jewish scriptures with christian versions? without trying to read all of it twice, side by side which would be very time consuming.......for example would it be an acceptable method of study to read the christian version but where it is given a christian interpretation, to cross reference it with a jewish version?
really it's very difficult to know where to start. everyone claims that their religion is the right one and everyone accuses everyone else of corrupting texts etc etc. i just want to read and make up my own mind, but even that becomes difficult if you don't know which version of which book to read
thankyou for your help

Probably Impossible. Hebrew language is structured differently than other languages. There are connection between words that are impossible to translate. "Old" (There is ONE testament) is totally different from Old Testament in hebrew.

Hebrew words can mean multiple things, be read in multiple ways, with multiple translations so much that 1st reading can be totally different from the 2nd.


My humble 2 cents.

 

[dayaa]

hello/shalom
sorry nagging about the same point again but i'm not sure if i didn't understand the answer or maybe my question wasn't clear.
i was not asking about the dates of the origins of the books....i was asking about physical books still in existence. i mean if you took your copy of the torah or tanakh (original hebrew) to jerusalem for example to compare it with "original" texts would it be exactly the same....no mistakes, no alterations and how old (physically) are those original texts.
thankyou

 

[human1111]

hello/shalom
sorry nagging about the same point again but i'm not sure if i didn't understand the answer or maybe my question wasn't clear.
i was not asking about the dates of the origins of the books....i was asking about physical books still in existence. i mean if you took your copy of the torah or tanakh (original hebrew) to jerusalem for example to compare it with "original" texts would it be exactly the same....no mistakes, no alterations and how old (physically) are those original texts.
thankyou

From what I've heard, Tanakh was very carefully copied throught the ages to make sure that every letter was the same.