Religion and Prayer in the Workplace

[TheLightWithin]

I learned from a visiting acquaintance, who moved down south a couple of years ago, that at her job down there, her colleagues hold prayers at the end of meetings during the day at work.
This is apparently something where it is merely assumed everybody would participate. My acquaintance joked that "separation of church and state" does not exist in that state.
I didn't have the chance to discuss in any real detail.
This is at a state job.

What thoughts does anybody have about this?

 

[rocala]

What thoughts does anybody have about this?

To me, it seems to be nothing less than a form of bullying.

 

[Thomas]

What thoughts does anybody have about this?

Well if there is the option not to participate, with no coercion nor 'unfortunate effect' as a result of not taking part, then I don't really see a problem?

If, however, it reflects certain sociopolitical ideologies prevalent in your neck of the woods, then I can understand your concern.

If participation is obligatory, then surely as a state office, someone is overstepping the bounds?

+++

As I understand it, American schoolkids begin their day with the Pledge of Allegiance? Is there an opt-out for that? It seems like coercive indoctrination to me.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Well if there is the option not to participate, with no coercion nor 'unfortunate effect' as a result of not taking part, then I don't really see a problem?

I suspect there would be "unfortunate effects" as a result of not taking part, especially in some communities

If, however, it reflects certain sociopolitical ideologies prevalent in your neck of the woods, then I can understand your concern.

It would in many regions or communities

f participation is obligatory, then surely as a state office, someone is overstepping the bounds?

I didn't get a chance to inquire more deeply. I'd be curious.

As I understand it, American schoolkids begin their day with the Pledge of Allegiance?

We used to growing up. I assume many still do

Is there an opt-out for that?

Yes, I was in several school districts (moved a few times during elementary school) and there were always JW kids who simply stood with the class but did not take part.
In fact, in my school in 6th grade, the most popular girl in the class was JW and she stood with the class and was silent during the pledge. We all knew why and there were no issues to my knowledge.

My school took it even further: we had "a moment of reverent silence" after the pledge, with the idea people could pray quietly and anonymously, or not. A reaction to a school prayer issue, I recall that but I don't remember what was actively going on nationally around that topic in the early 1980s. It might even have been a purely local thing with fundamentalists wanting to reintroduce prayer in school locally or something, and that was the compromise. Seemed perfectly cromulent. Don't see why a workplace couldn't do that, but also not sure why it would be needed at work?
Not sure why prayer would be needed at state funder schools either, I do understand the pledge as being instructional about citizenship.

It seems like coercive indoctrination to me.

Possibly? People are not being asked to believe anything supernatural with the pledge, nor anything overtly politically controversial, only taught Americanism (American identity) and citizenship, and being loyal to the nation. In my experience, people could and did opt out for religious reasons, and to my knowledge didn't get repercussions, though I had heard of teachers who were biased getting away with pestering JW students in the past (before the 80s) for not reciting the pledge. They couldn't get away with it by the 80s I guess.

I believe nowadays people can opt out for political reasons or any reason. If a student does not cause a disruption I do not know if they are challenged, but I am not sure.

I guess you could ask the same question about prayer, but I think religion, religious practice, and religious identity, are more sensitive issues. Or, perhaps not?

Civil religion and social cohesion -- Is there something uniting all members of society? In a religiously diverse nation, it would need to be something religiously neutral. I think that's how the pledge fits in.

Other thoughts?

 

[TheLightWithin]

Here are some additional thoughts I had about the topic - thanks to everyone who has begun to address some already --

What does anybody think about the purposes, pros, cons, consequences, implication, or caveats of the practice of post meeting prayers?

How would you respond to something like this? Do you think anyone would look askance at anybody who quietly left the group rather than sit for the prayer? Or at somebody who objected? (for any reason?)

What if the request for group prayer was by and for members of a different religion than your own? Would you stay or leave? Or something else?


One of my favorite workplace blogs touches on the topic a few times

https://www.askamanager.org/2012/06/when-your-boss-leads-a-workplace-dinner-in-prayer.html

how can I refuse to pray with my religious client, accused of bullying for not attending a baby shower, and more

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. Can I refuse to pray with my religious client? I am a militantly non-religious person and have worked with a religion-based nonprofit as a consultant for a couple of years now. I am somewhat new to the workforce, and this is my first consulting...

www.askamanager.org

coworkers hold daily prayer sessions, employee might be working a side gig during work hours, and more

It’s five answers to five questions. Here we go… 1. My coworkers hold daily prayer sessions while we’re supposed to be working I was recently lucky enough to be hired for a job in my field (special education teacher assistant) at an amazing public school that has a wonderful and supportive...

www.askamanager.org

my boss wants us to meet with a spiritualist to fix the negative energy in our building

A reader writes: I work at a small nonprofit and recently the employee with the longest institutional knowledge just left her position because of the years of abuse, micromanagement, and overwork she endured. Now, the executive director is trying to set up an all-staff meeting with a...

www.askamanager.org

 

[TheLightWithin]

Then there are these, from the same blog - About someone coming from a different religious angle and trying to impose it on employees

https://www.askamanager.org/2015/01/my-boss-thinks-he-is-a-mayan-shaman.html

https://www.askamanager.org/2017/01/arranging-for-my-team-to-participate-in-an-indigenous-spiritual-ceremony.html

 

[wil]

American schoolkids begin their day with the Pledge of Allegiance? Is there an opt-out for that?

The year was 1972 when I put my foot down, my butt down and refused to stand or say the pledge (doubt anyone is surprised) for s week they had me in the principals.office during the.pledge, to not gain support. Then I pointed out all the adults in the office not pledging...year by year more kids sat down (we did have to be quiet)

My objection "with liberty and justice for all" The fact that we had desesegragation just starting then, and a war on drugs to keep hippies and blacks from voting with their new felonies said it all for me.

 

[TheLightWithin]

My objection "with liberty and justice for all" The fact that we had desecration just starting then, and a war on drugs to keep hippies and blacks from voting with their new felonies said it all for me.

Liberty and justice for all is how things should be, and Americanism is fighting for those things and pointing out hypocrisy wherever you see it -- good on you when you do. I've never really grokked the idea of rejecting patriotism or Americanism due to annoyance that reality hasn't always lived up to the ideal - being upset with it or considering it a sham -- or anything - I kind of understand why people get thoroughly disillusioned with religion due to human hypocrisy, or lack of proof, for sure, but rejecting religion does not ipso facto mean rejecting G-d or rejecting all theory of the supernatural -- and being disgusted with political hypocrisy doesn't ipso facto mean dropping faith or passion for the valid ideas and ideals.

 

[TheLightWithin]

@wil did you also see the other items I added?
Right above your answer - I'd be curious to see your response to some of the questions or links I put in my entry.

 

[wil]

The only workplace I can see religion allowed is a parochial school, religious institution or charity.

I am not in favor of a coach praying to whomever before a game.

 

[Faithfulservant]

Being originally from Washington State, as a Christian, i was a minority. I moved to Texas 20 years ago and was no longer a minority i was in the bible belt.. It wasnt frowned upon to talk about our faiths and to pray with each other. In the 20 years ive been here ive never seen anyone judge another for not participating or make it obligatory for anyone. I feel like this topic is designed to cast some sort of negativity on Christians wishing to pray with other Christians in some other place than home or church.

 

[TheLightWithin]

Being originally from Washington State, as a Christian, i was a minority. I moved to Texas 20 years ago and was no longer a minority i was in the bible belt.. It wasnt frowned upon to talk about our faiths and to pray with each other. In the 20 years ive been here ive never seen anyone judge another for not participating or make it obligatory for anyone. I feel like this topic is designed to cast some sort of negativity on Christians wishing to pray with other Christians in some other place than home or church.

What if the request for group prayer was by and for members of a different religion than your own? Would you stay or leave? Or something else?

 

[TheLightWithin]

I feel like this topic is designed to cast some sort of negativity on Christians wishing to pray with other Christians in some other place than home or church.

It seems you may think there is something wrong with the topic.
I think the social implications of being non religious or in a religious minority in various settings could be important sometimes.
(or possible career implications, in some communities, depending on the people involved, and what they could get away with)

I'm not sure what you mean about the topic being "designed" - ??
I am writing about a brief conversation we had with an acquaintance, back in town visiting family I guess (she's a former colleague of my husband, I know her through him) that happened in real time over the weekend, we encountered her in passing at a local event .... so .... ???

Anyway I thought it was perfectly cromulent to see what folks on the forum thought of it.

There is value in having religiously neutral spaces, and work should be one. Nobody should have to confront religious questions in the workplace. It can create the impression that something in your job status or performance is being judged on your religious position. At the very least it puts people in the position of having to reveal their religious identity whether or not they preferred to.

 

[Faithfulservant]

What if the request for group prayer was by and for members of a different religion than your own? Would you stay or leave? Or something else?

Leave.

 

[Faithfulservant]

It seems you may think there is something wrong with the topic.
I think the social implications of being non religious or in a religious minority in various settings could be important sometimes.
(or possible career implications, in some communities, depending on the people involved, and what they could get away with)

I'm not sure what you mean about the topic being "designed" - ??
I am writing about a brief conversation we had with an acquaintance, back in town visiting family I guess (she's a former colleague of my husband, I know her through him) that happened in real time over the weekend, we encountered her in passing at a local event .... so .... ???

Anyway I thought it was perfectly cromulent to see what folks on the forum thought of it.

There is value in having religiously neutral spaces, and work should be one. Nobody should have to confront religious questions in the workplace. It can create the impression that something in your job status or performance is being judged on your religious position. At the very least it puts people in the position of having to reveal their religious identity whether or not they preferred to.

I think its paranoia to assume that anyone gives a care what religion you are even at work. As a Christian im always looking for other Christians because they are family and we share in common a love for Jesus Christ. Prayer is everything to us.

 

[Thomas]

I suspect there would be "unfortunate effects" as a result of not taking part, especially in some communities

I can imagine ... but it would be a shame to paint all with the same brush

Don't see why a workplace couldn't do that, but also not sure why it would be needed at work?

Why not? Is God exiled from the public sphere?

Not sure why prayer would be needed at state funder schools either, I do understand the pledge as being instructional about citizenship.

Well both prayer and the pledge are introductions to an ideology, I suppose. Which one is the more mythical, I'll leave up to the individual.

Possibly? People are not being asked to believe anything supernatural with the pledge, nor anything overtly politically controversial, only taught Americanism (American identity) and citizenship, and being loyal to the nation.

Currently, being 'loyal to the nation' has taken on a sharp edge ...

but I think religion, religious practice, and religious identity, are more sensitive issues. Or, perhaps not?

More sensitive that nationalism? I would have thought currently it's the other way round ...

I think that's how the pledge fits in.

The Pledge is far from neutral.

+++

The relevant point surely is that while kids grow up making the Pledge, they grow up into supporters or proponents of an ideology that stands for everything the pledge stands against ... which just goes to show how shallow this supposed indoctrination is ... but these are political waters.

 

[Thomas]

I feel like this topic is designed to cast some sort of negativity on Christians ...

It's a tough one, as I feel the same way, not about this topic, necessarily, but generally, so this topic will act as a trigger, which those who are not triggered don't see.

I know a lot of Christians who stay 'under the radar' because the weight of a secular society is just stacked against them, it's more discreet and casual ...

I am of the more robust variety. I don't make a thing of it, I don't make public displays, but I don't shy away (here is my only soapbox!). We should call out racism, sexism, whatever-ism whenever and wherever we meet it. I don't see why 'religionism' is acceptable ... but there you go.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I think its paranoia

That sounds low level pejorative, but in any case, whether it is "paranoia" or not depends on your history and experience.

I think its paranoia to assume that anyone gives a care what religion you are even at work.

It happens, people ask nosy questions at work and evangelize at work.
I have had more than a few colleagues who are very loud about their religion and their politics at work.
They have talked openly and loudly about what they think about all of those topics, seemingly trying to make sure they are heard, blaring their radio programs as well. Openly discussing their contempt for those who do not agree with them, sometimes including personally fellow workers.
The reason I think it is a bad idea is those topics are inherently potentially divisive.
Also, lest this get lost in the mix, we are there to do a job.

As a Christian im always looking for other Christians because they are family and we share in common a love for Jesus Christ. Prayer is everything to us.

Which could mean getting together at lunch to pray, not requesting a group prayer at the end of a work meeting.
Praying openly collectively on the job could create the impression that the employer is endorsing the religion.
Also this was a situation with state workers. Public employees.

I will not be more specific about where they work due to wanting not to compromise the anonymity of any of the workers, as anybody could read the forum. No, that's not paranoid, that's common sense. People who have state jobs, who also have strong political or religious opinions, often have social media accounts where they don't use their last names, as they do not want any of their opinions to be taken as reflecting on their employer or reflect on policy. I know a lot of state workers. They know the drill, they are not 'paranoid'

 

[TheLightWithin]

Prayer is everything to us.

Workplace accommodation could mean an interfaith prayer space people could go to.
It's not as if that would necessarily be tension free, for example how to manage different people using the room at what time, whether men and women could be in the same space based on the views of some faiths, would the office esp the state office have to administrate and coordinate the time its used etc. or could people just go into that space and pray without being at cross purposes.

It's also not like religious groups never use public buildings. Just recently there was a Muslim American convention at the capitol concourse. They had booked the space like anybody does. They were in the same general area where the dance and choral competitions are booked though not the same space. I'm glad they were not the same week as not only would it have been crowded, it would have been a rather awkward cross cultural moment - but everyone would have had to deal.

I think there's a routine monthly Christian prayer breakfast somewhere in the concourse as well. They book the space like anybody else.

Just at work - can the political and religious discussion be about private choice to get together after the meeting? Just good etiquette.

 

[TheLightWithin]

I feel like this topic is designed to cast some sort of negativity on Christians wishing to pray with other Christians in some other place than home or church.

I think its paranoia to assume that anyone gives a care what religion you are even at work.

Your less than cheerful reaction to the topic kind of proves my entire point.