Religion and Prayer in the Workplace

TheLightWithin said:
It might even have been a purely local thing with fundamentalists wanting to reintroduce prayer in school locally or something, and that was the compromise. Seemed perfectly cromulent. Don't see why a workplace couldn't do that, but also not sure why it would be needed at work?
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Thomas said:
Why not? Is God exiled from the public sphere?
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Whose G-d?
According to Deists, G-d withdrew after creation.
G-d and religion are not the same thing.

Is it metaphysically possible to stop G-d from doing anything or going anywhere or make G-d go anywhere?
It IS physically possible to talk about G-d all the time in any place and have people argue because they do not agree.
It is ALSO physically possible to have a general ethic and etiquette around not discussing politics or religion in polite or public settings.

You can ask that religion not be a focal point in a neutral public sphere.

Does anybody even wonder why?
 
Thomas said:
I am of the more robust variety. I don't make a thing of it, I don't make public displays, but I don't shy away (here is my only soapbox!). We should call out racism, sexism, whatever-ism whenever and wherever we meet it. I don't see why 'religionism' is acceptable ... but there you go.
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I agree, and I think that asking a group at work to pray IS religionism. You're inviting people to either participate in something they do not agree with OR CALL ATTENTION TO THEMSELVES BY WITHDRAWING - Whether it's intended or not, it identifies people, calls them out. I think it IS religionism to bring religion into the workplace in this way.

Now, if you quietly asked people privately, not in an open group, if they wanted to join you for prayer in the interfaith chapel or open meeting room, that's not putting people on the spot so much.

I live in an extremely religiously and culturally diverse community. I cannot say this has never happened here, but I have never encountered it. I know it would not go over well in most work settings around here, and would most certainly be recognized as just obviously not a good thing to do if you were a state employee.

Perhaps if one does not live in as diverse a community as I do, it is hard for one to see how obviously gauche and religionist it would be to call for a group prayer before you get up from the table at a work meeting. (I do not know enough about the communities of those on the forum, to say)
 
Thomas said:
I know a lot of Christians who stay 'under the radar' because the weight of a secular society is just stacked against them, it's more discreet and casual ...
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A lot of people who are not of the majority religion anywhere try to stay "under the radar" because the weight of the Christian/Protestant/Catholic/Islamic/Hindu/Mormon society around them feels stacked against them. That's true for heterodox Christians too who feel slandered when called "not really Christian" and for Jews who may sometimes feel very uncomfortable around vigorous expressions of Christianity (Not that I am trying to speak for Jews, not being Jewish, but when I went to college and had a lot of Jewish friends, they really opened my eyes about what happens to them at some times and places with some people)

That is the reason for secularism, and why secularism is good.
Neutral space, where everybody is on equal footing as regards to their religion, and the only tradeoff is not being super vocal and overt.
Which maybe some people are experiencing as an unpleasant tradeoff???
Taking for granted the peace and safety the neutral space provides.
 
Thomas said:
More sensitive that nationalism? I would have thought currently it's the other way round ...
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Patriotism citizenship and nationalism are not necessarily the same thing.
The idea I absorbed was the value of the nation's ideals and what is currently passing for nationalism seems to be a rejection of those very ideals.
Antithetical even. 🥺😢😭
 
TheLightWithin said:
One of my favorite workplace blogs touches on the topic a few times
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Can I refuse to pray with my religious client?
I am a militantly non-religious person and have worked with a religion-based nonprofit as a consultant for a couple of years now. I am somewhat new to the workforce, and this is my first consulting gig.
A: ... (Personally, I’d argue that faking it is inherently disrespectful, but that would be trumped by their disrespect in objecting to you sitting quietly, if indeed they did.)
Seems like they got the job under false pretences – a non-religious joining a clearly religious organisation.

My coworkers hold daily prayer sessions while we’re supposed to be working
Inappropriate. If they want to do that, they should meet before the official start.

My boss wants us to meet with a spiritualist to fix the negative energy in our building
Run away!

I want to have an indigenous spiritual ceremony for my team
Again, wrong. I agree with the answer to the question – education about the culture, yes, participation in it, no.

Interesting, though ... I am happy with non-Catholics attending mass, or an explanation of the mass for non-catholics if they were working into a catholic culture and there was a reason for such an education – but I wouldn't ask the person to participate, or ask a priest to attend a company and celebrate a mass with non-believers that involved the sacrament ...

My boss thinks he is a mayan shaman
Oh, good grief!
 
Thomas said:
Can I refuse to pray with my religious client?
I am a militantly non-religious person and have worked with a religion-based nonprofit as a consultant for a couple of years now. I am somewhat new to the workforce, and this is my first consulting gig.
A: ... (Personally, I’d argue that faking it is inherently disrespectful, but that would be trumped by their disrespect in objecting to you sitting quietly, if indeed they did.)
Seems like they got the job under false pretences – a non-religious joining a clearly religious organisation.

My coworkers hold daily prayer sessions while we’re supposed to be working
Inappropriate. If they want to do that, they should meet before the official start.

My boss wants us to meet with a spiritualist to fix the negative energy in our building
Run away!

I want to have an indigenous spiritual ceremony for my team
Again, wrong. I agree with the answer to the question – education about the culture, yes, participation in it, no.

Interesting, though ... I am happy with non-Catholics attending mass, or an explanation of the mass for non-catholics if they were working into a catholic culture and there was a reason for such an education – but I wouldn't ask the person to participate, or ask a priest to attend a company and celebrate a mass with non-believers that involved the sacrament ...

My boss thinks he is a mayan shaman
Oh, good grief!
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I agree with what you say - although I'd have to read again to see if the person got the job under false pretenses. I think them playing along is false pretenses possibly due to naivete but I don't think they can walk it back. I think they may not have understood that the job entailed religious participation?
 
TheLightWithin said:
I agree with what you say - although I'd have to read again to see if the person got the job under false pretenses. I think them playing along is false pretenses possibly due to naivete but I don't think they can walk it back. I think they may not have understood that the job entailed religious participation?
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Maybe ... as the answer said, they've left it too long without addressing the issue.
 
Thomas said:
Not if all parties are in agreement, and those who wish to decline are free to do so.
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Yes, hopefully, but I wonder about the repercussions and even just outing oneself as having a different approach to faith.
I think it should be more discreetly done, not just "well let's end this meeting with a prayer"

In my workplace something slightly related came up, and because we are a secular agency with a diverse clinical population we serve, it was described as having to do with inclusivity, though I think the issue was a little different for clinical reasons.

Anyway I have to start work, I will check in later:)
 
I'm having a quiet chuckle here because I remember the day a monk – the Master of Novices – came to deliver a lecture when doing my degree.

He came in, and we all stood up.
"What?" he looked up from the lectern. "Have I missed something?"
"We say a prayer before lectures, father," he was told.
"Really?" Theatrical eye-roll, mock exasperation. "At Pluscarden, we do that all the time!"
 
Can we be honest please? I think its interesting that you keep using the word religion when its Christians that you mean. Why is practicing a faith something to be hid in a closet and not to be taken out unless socially acceptable? That is not how the Apostles practiced their faith.
 
Faithfulservant said:
Can we be honest please? I think its interesting that you keep using the word religion when its Christians that you mean. Why is practicing a faith something to be hid in a closet and not to be taken out unless socially acceptable? That is not how the Apostles practiced their faith.
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I for one thought it implied all religions.

It appears yes this example was Christian...but could have easily been a Christian complaining about having to deal with Muslims in the workplace.

.
 
I suspect the entire issue of the original question isn't about whether prayer has its place in the workplace, but rather how much the separation of Church and state should be enforced in US government agencies, which I suspect might be more of a political question. I would hope we could avoid that.

Personally speaking, as a non-Christian, I wouldn't object as here in the Britain most of us were raised as kids in a national Protestant environment that included school prayers, so it's more normative. I would actually welcome participation in other faith ceremonies simply because they would be fresh and interesting for being different to my normal experiences.

So perhaps we should deflect this question away from Christianity specifically, and ask that - if you worked with Hindus or Sikhs, or Muslims, or Jews, even neo-pagans, would you find it reprehensible for them to have their own group ceremonies at work? Furthermore, would you object to sharing in that experience? Would you object on the grounds that your own faith is different, or would you be happy to share in it simply as a group experience with work colleagues?
 
Separation of church and state simply means that the government cannot establish a state religion or favor one religion over another. It doesn't mean that religion cannot be practiced at a state job.

Unless your friend is being forced to participate or shamed for not doing so, I'm really not seeing a problem with their colleagues holding a prayer after a meeting.
 
SalixIncendium said:
Separation of church and state simply means that the government cannot establish a state religion or favor one religion over another. It doesn't mean that religion cannot be practiced at a state job.

Unless your friend is being forced to participate or shamed for not doing so, I'm really not seeing a problem with their colleagues holding a prayer after a meeting.
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The issue is preferential treatment with those that are in the prayer group and peer pressure to join the prayer group for the perks.

Similarly back when they banned smoking in the workplace....folks would go outside to smoke. If you had chosen to shorten your life by smoking, you got multiple additional breaks. The smokers would say gonna go for a smoke, watch the phones. The nonsmokers were relegated to staying inside, no elevator ride down to chat for ten minutes with coworkers.

Sometimes decisions were made in the smoking clutch that affected those not there. Me? Everytime the boss said going out for a smoke, I started going...not smoking, just taking a break, and being involved in company decisions.
 
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