Ignosticism- Perhaps any position but ignostic is overconfident?

TheLightWithin

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So ignosticism is about not knowing enough to firmly say whether you are theist, atheist, or agnostic. In simple terms.
I don't like their use of the word "meaningless" as it just doesn't sit right.



These definitions and discussions bring up other definitions and discussions I've run across or participated in over the years, about how people define themselves and whether I would situate myself in any of the above categories, or if you look within the Medium article above about Ignosticism, whether their term "weak theism" fits for me or whether the label sits right, in fact whether any label sits right and what purpose is the label and for whom? Does G-d understand better with the right label? I think not.
 
Interesting...
I used to call myself agnostic with atheist leanings, I might have adopted ignostic back then if I'd known the word.

Yeah meaningless is a bit strong - but the point is valid. Between us we use the word god to cover an extremely broad range of entities, which can make discussion difficult.
 
Yes, interesting ...

I'd not come across 'ignosticism' before, but having looked into it, it seems to be a child of Logical Positivism, a philosophical position that emerged in the 1920s, that only statements verifiable through empirical observation or logical analysis are cognitively meaningful, thereby dismissing metaphysics, theology, and traditional ethics as meaningless speculation.

It declined in the 1960s. The Stanford Encyclopedia entry on Logical Empiricism traces its decline.
 
In the end, is one's definition cogent, is it reasonable and rationally explicable?

If so, then the 'ignostic' argument fails – whether one is discussion the nature of 'God', 'consciousness' or various cosmological positions.
 
Returning to this, in response to the OP:
"Perhaps any position but ignostic is overconfident?"
Clearly not, as a well-schooled theologian can talk confidently about the nature of God.

"Ignosticism basically means that any discussion regarding the existence of God is meaningless until God is properly defined. In other words, I think that the very premise of the question is flawed."
But there are meaningful and coherent statements about the nature of God, ones that are reasonable and rational, which rather suggests the premise is flawed.

"... that the question of God’s existence is meaningless, and so is arguing about it, since definitions of God cannot be proven to be either true or false."
That doesn't render the discussion inherently meaningless. Discussions of cosmology posit possibilities that cannot be proven true of false, but they are not meaningless. String Theory is not meaningless ... nor is multi-universe theories, etc.

“Theological noncognitivism is the position that discussions about God, omnipotence and related subjects are cognitively meaningless. Simply put Theological Noncognitivism is much like making up a word and then discussing it. Issues surrounding the qualities of God and the limits of human intellect make theological noncognitivism a significant threat to theism and to specific forms of atheism.”
Making up words is what language is. It's what language does. Language is contextual. Analogy and metaphor are acceptable epistemological methods for the communication of meaning. Thus 'love' can be discussed, or 'consciousness', although within the bounds of empirical positivism, such discussions would be meaningless.

"Of course, we can debate vague words without completely defining them. Take “love”, one of the most misused words of all time. People’s ideas on love can differ in a variety of ways, but most of us have a general idea of the emotion that is being described. Where “love” and “God” diverge is in their nature. “Love” is a matter relegated to the human body, and an observable phenomenon."
As if faith an observable phenomenon, and the discussions of the nature of love go beyond the bounds of observable phenomena.

God, on the other hand, is not so certain. In the most general of terms, God is called a “higher power” something transcendent of our reality. Is God as easily observable as “love”?
I would suggest there are physical reactions that can be measured, and faith in action can be observed. It may not be certain, but again, degrees of certainty do not render the discussion meaningless.

The fact is, I have yet to see the theistic world produce a coherent definition of “God” that can be consistently argued against.
Really? Really?
The Ontological Argument?
The Cosmological argument?

"I have many issues here. One is with the term “straw god”, a variant of “straw man.” With “straw man” we have a real man to reference, in showing just how ludicrous the one of straw is. The same can hardly be said of God."
This is ludicrous. By definition, the 'straw man' is a fiction.

"As I said earlier, we have yet to create a coherent or practical definition of Him."
Coherent and practical definitions exist ...

(So far, as an undergraduate essay, this would get shot down in flames.)
 
Part Two:

"There are some theists who are so eager to make atheism out like another religion, though I really don’t know why. As Bill Maher has said, calling atheism a religion is like calling abstinence a sex position. The two aren’t even in the same ballpark."
I could recount the arguments of the atheist philosopher John Grey to dismantle that argument.

"In any case, the term “atheist fundamentalist”, redundant though it may be, arguably seems more suited ..."
Oh, good grief, make your mind up!

Though if I may return to the topic at hand,"
Please do.

"defining God will be no easy task."
Fear not, all the heavy lifting's been done for you.

"One that might not even be performed in a single conversation."
Oh, it can be.

"Part of the reason is that the attributes often ascribed to “God”, such as omnipotence, omnibenevolence, and omniscience, are metaphysical concepts that are hard to fully understand."
For you, perhaps. You can't make that claim for everybody.

"From our experience, we only know limited benevolence, what does omnibenevolence mean?"
Simple. If one is limited benevolence, the other is unlimited. What does that mean? That involves 'thinking'. We can extrapolate a meaning, in the same way we can talk about 'infinite numbers' or 'infinite universe'. Or 'undying love'.

"We may even disagree on what benevolence is, and how a conceptual God may express it."
We may, but that does not render the dialogue meaningless. It's through the dialogue we arrive at an understanding, an insight, perhaps even an advancement of knowledge. Ignosticism just stops the conversation dead.

"For example, it is usually said that God is “goodness”. Well, defining just what it means to be “good” is an issue philosophers have wrestled with since the beginning of human thought."
So is the idea of 'goodness' an incoherent proposition? You've got no concept of it?

"So it’s little wonder that people can have radically different ideas of God based on their ideas of “goodness”.
Politicians will have radically different ideas about what is 'good' for the population – does that render these ideas incoherent?

Radical difference is not the issue – what is important is the ignostic position would silence the debate. There can be no consensus, just ignorance.

Imagine that two Catholic priests ...
Er, not the Catholic position. Not even a Christian position. Luke 13:1-5.

"It’ll be impossible to get everyone to agree on the same conception of God."
But it is possible to get everyone, theists, agnostics and atheists, to agree the same definition, to be in the same ballpark – they might assent to it, abstain from it, or reject it, but that 'it' can be common to them all.

"The matter is just so personal. You’ll find yourself confronted with various versions of God, and you may hold varying degrees of agnosticism on them. You may be a weak agnostic over Krishna and an agnostic atheist over the Abrahamic God. This is the ignostic method."
This is the point where this method becomes irrational. It simply asks for a more precise definition, and every time it is met, it repeats the question, ad infinitum. It can be applied to almost anything. What is consciousness? What is love? What is 'red' when there are so many different terms for the colour?

All of this being said ... In the long run, however, I think that a person’s view on ethics and morality is far more important than whether or not they believe in God"
But ... and it's a big but ... apply your rule of ignosticism, and a discussion of ethics or morality becomes cognitively meaningless.
 
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