The Apocrypha

D

didymus

Well-Known Member
Messages
506
Reaction score
0
Points
0
Hello to all. Hopefully this thread doesn't come across as another attept to debunk the christian faith. But I do have a question that begs an answer and or opinions.

The Holy Bible is considered by many to be the infallible word of God. Anything found outside of it is not of God if it doesn't concur with it. What about the Apocrypha that was and I believe still is a part of the Roman Catholic Bible? I brought this up on another thread but noone addressed it. So I'll put it here so that noone will miss it.

The books in this apocrypha were taken away sometime after 1611. I know this because King James translation translated these books. Now they must have been considered to be the word of God at one point to have gotten in there in the first place. I'm guessing that something was found in those books or that there was a dramatic shift in belief that occured for them to be removed. I don't know the answer so that is why I asked.
 
I don't have a scholarly answer for you but I saw your list from the other thread. I know that some if not all of those other books are still referenced and used by the Episcopal Church.

My understanding of it is that the Bible is sufficient for understanding God's plan for salvation, but God is not limited to the Bible. Who knows, maybe I speaking heresey here myself. :) As for concurrence, well, that is often in the eye of the beholder.
 
all the books are still there. everyone can still get a bible with the Apocrypha or most of it anyway. it will depend on the person and which way they are persuaded.
for some the Apocrypha and other writings seems to be there main mission.
for some they take all the books into consideration then decide.
for some as lunamoth has said have found the 66 to be sufficient.;)
for some they would like to rid of certain of the 66 books in the bible and create there own.
so i dont really see the problem because all the writings are still there and new ones every day.
 
also the timeline for most of it cannot be found to go past the 5th century. the 66 books can be traced back much earlier to those who would have know the whole story.

furthermore, instead of complementing the Holy Bible, the Apocrypha includes several passages that contradict the Word of God. the blatant disparity between some of the doctrines of these extra-biblical books and the teachings of the canonized 66 books is one of the reasons that these books were not included as part of the Bible. The following are three examples of these contradictions.

i also do not feel they were inspired by God at all, it has a different agenda IMO.

Hope that helps.

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:
2 Maccabees 12:43-45, "2,000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin."

Salvation by works:
Ecclesiasticus 3:30, "Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin. Tobit 12:8-9, 17, "It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin." Magic:
Tobit 6:5-8, "If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore."
 
Martin Luther had real problems with the Bible as it was in his day. He translated his own version leaving out books that disagreed with him.
This makes for a very dangerous type of faith. He also later in his life supported Royals in Crushing a serf uprising that was a direct result of his own works. protected his own life at the cost of others.

Many written works worthy of reading exist in our world. The question is what makes one set worthy of building our faith and doctrine from and what doesnt.
As a Christian I trust that the 66 we have are indeed worthy. I see other works that inspire me to search these 66 for further truth I may have not found yet.

I believe any works that would distract me or deter me from these 66 to be of little value. And even dangerous to my faith.


Believing everything you read is foolish and would lead to confusion. Taking out what is tried and true down through ages because it difers from what you decide to preach is dangerous too.

IMO I will read and use the Bible as it stands to judge what is of God and what isnt. I believe in the absolute truth found in the Bible as it stands today. I will not be so bold as to add more or take away from what I see and question the motives of any who do.

Acts 8:26 And the angel of the Lord spake unto Philip, saying, Arise, and go toward the south unto the way that goeth down from Jerusalem unto Gaza, which is desert.
27: And he arose and went: and, behold, a man of Ethiopia, an eunuch of great authority under Candace queen of the Ethiopians, who had the charge of all her treasure, and had come to Jerusalem for to worship,
28: Was returning, and sitting in his chariot read Esaias the prophet.
29: Then the Spirit said unto Philip, Go near, and join thyself to this chariot.
30: And Philip ran thither to him, and heard him read the prophet Esaias, and said, Understandest thou what thou readest?
31: And he said, How can I, except some man should guide me? And he desired Philip that he would come up and sit with him.
32: The place of the scripture which he read was this, He was led as a sheep to the slaughter; and like a lamb dumb before his shearer, so opened he not his mouth:
33: In his humiliation his judgment was taken away: and who shall declare his generation? for his life is taken from the earth.
34: And the eunuch answered Philip, and said, I pray thee, of whom speaketh the prophet this? of himself, or of some other man?
35: Then Philip opened his mouth, and began at the same scripture, and preached unto him Jesus.
36: And as they went on their way, they came unto a certain water: and the eunuch said, See, here is water; what doth hinder me to be baptized?
37: And Philip said, If thou believest with all thine heart, thou mayest. And he answered and said, I believe that Jesus Christ is the Son of God.
38: And he commanded the chariot to stand still: and they went down both into the water, both Philip and the eunuch; and he baptized him.
39: And when they were come up out of the water, the Spirit of the Lord caught away Philip, that the eunuch saw him no more: and he went on his way rejoicing.
40: But Philip was found at Azotus: and passing through he preached in all the cities, till he came to Caesarea.

One book One scroll and the truth of Jesus. Was all it took to convince this man. And I wonder now how we would fair with so little knowledge could and would we see the truth if it was told to us ?
I thank God for all my scrolls I have them in a nice little package of 66 called the Bible but it is just another book if I dont see the Truth contained in it.
 
Dear Didymus

Sadly I cannot respond to your original question but I do know a man that can so will pose him with your question.

I feel it is good to start from the very beginning. Here is an excellent scholarly link for the development of the New Testement Canon and of course the very first was Origan who was later branded a heretic, then Jerome followed on from there and his letters are enlightening eventhough there is a 150 to plough through.

From what I have read in the letters discussing the inclusion and the understanding of scripture, they did not understand some of the scripture so made the best of less then a best job.

Here is a great link.

http://www.ntcanon.org/Origen.shtml#Gospels

I was guided to make another amazing discovery today so feeling very excited.

Love beyond measure

Kim xxx
 
For those that feel that the books were not inspired by God or don't do anything for you, my point is that they were at one point in the Bible. They were there then they were removed. Sure you can go out and get them but that isn't what I'm pointing out. It would be similar to the church today saying that we're going to take out Revelation and Jude. How would you respond. For those that follow my train of thought here the question is why did they take the books out?
 
it is obvious there are many sects today trying to remove books from the 66.
In that I also see them creating doubt, confusion and deceit.
I dont need to respond. God will respond. His Word endureth forever.
 
I just read my post and don't think I was clear. My point was if we are going to say that the books of the Bible are without a doubt the word of God and infallible and susequently remove some because maybe they aren't this could cast doubt as to the validity of the others.
 
i know, but I am not real interested in this because it is OBVIOUS to anyone who has read them they were written at a different time from people who could say anything they wanted to say. those books were studied and do in fact contradict the other books and kind of ramble on with a different intent and imaginationSSS.
it is impossible for those writings to declare they knew Jesus because the language had changed that much. they are not supposrted by the OT or the NT in any way shape or form.

I would much rather be studying the goodness of the Lord than wasting my time going over all this again, and AGAIN. Ever since you came to CR, this is all you want to talk about in the Christian Forum. I find that quite odd.


  1. Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):
    1. Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.
  2. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.
  3. No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.
  4. Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East.
IMO those books were written by mystics in the middle ages to try and taint the other 66 books. They did not stay as part of the bible for very long at all.

Do you really expect people from those times to have complete accurate info on everything ever wirtten that was in the bible or that was not.

Your mindset about it is seeing it from a mysitic and gnostic point of view and I will never fall into that pattern of thinking. No matter how hard you try.

Soon it will all be over and the battle will be won and Jesus will triumph over all. That is what matters.

This whole thread really needs to be in another forum.
This whole thread really needs to be in another forum.
This whole thread really needs to be in another forum.
This whole thread really needs to be in another forum.
 
I'm easy when it comes to canon. Its all written by men. Does that mean its not true? Not at all. But nowhere in the gospels, epistles, Jewish romances does anyone harp on the validity of what is written. Only after such a doctrine became standardized do you see claims to the farce of infallibility and dictation from God. I would imagine for Jews and early Christians such a statement would've been blasphemous. There are numerous books cited in the Tanakh and NT that are either considered heredox or are missing that were taken as pure scripture by the authors. Not to mention borrowed traditions and other cross-pollination from other religions.
 
didymus said:
Hello to all. Hopefully this thread doesn't come across as another attept to debunk the christian faith. But I do have a question that begs an answer and or opinions.

The Holy Bible is considered by many to be the infallible word of God. Anything found outside of it is not of God if it doesn't concur with it. What about the Apocrypha that was and I believe still is a part of the Roman Catholic Bible? I brought this up on another thread but noone addressed it. So I'll put it here so that noone will miss it.

The books in this apocrypha were taken away sometime after 1611. I know this because King James translation translated these books. Now they must have been considered to be the word of God at one point to have gotten in there in the first place. I'm guessing that something was found in those books or that there was a dramatic shift in belief that occured for them to be removed. I don't know the answer so that is why I asked.
Click to expand...
Ok I'd like to start out by clarifying something. The Deuterocanon is the seven books that are in the Catholic Bible that aren't in the Protestant ones. The Apocrypha are all the other books written about Christ in the first 3 centuries or that are claimed to be written in the first 3 centuries. Of course I can't demand of anyone to use these terms but if we could come to a consensus it would be less confusing. Anyway to the actual thread



These books are Infallible they were proclaimed so by all of the early council (Hippo and Carthage) Luther and other reformers opted to remove them for 2 reasons. The Jews rejected them in 80 AD because they weren’t written in Hebrew and 2. They contradicted his teachings.



Catholics use them for 2 reasons. 1. The councils say to. 2. The average early Christian didn't read Hebrew they read Greek. These books are contained in the Greek translation because they were written in Greek.
 
Bandit said:
also the timeline for most of it cannot be found to go past the 5th century. the 66 books can be traced back much earlier to those who would have know the whole story.

furthermore, instead of complementing the Holy Bible, the Apocrypha includes several passages that contradict the Word of God. the blatant disparity between some of the doctrines of these extra-biblical books and the teachings of the canonized 66 books is one of the reasons that these books were not included as part of the Bible. The following are three examples of these contradictions.

i also do not feel they were inspired by God at all, it has a different agenda IMO.

Hope that helps.

Basis for the doctrine of purgatory:
2 Maccabees 12:43-45, "2,000 pieces of silver were sent to Jerusalem for a sin-offering...Whereupon he made reconciliation for the dead, that they might be delivered from sin."

Salvation by works:
Ecclesiasticus 3:30, "Water will quench a flaming fire, and alms maketh atonement for sin. Tobit 12:8-9, 17, "It is better to give alms than to lay up gold; for alms doth deliver from death, and shall purge away all sin." Magic:
Tobit 6:5-8, "If the Devil, or an evil spirit troubles anyone, they can be driven away by making a smoke of the heart, liver, and gall of a fish...and the Devil will smell it, and flee away, and never come again anymore."
Click to expand...
They don't contradict the NT they contradict Luther’s interpretation of the NT and that isn't any more magic than demanding that a Demon leave a person in the name of Jesus
 
Bandit said:
it is impossible for those writings to declare they knew Jesus because the language had changed that much. they are not supposrted by the OT or the NT in any way shape or form.
Click to expand...
They all OT books of course they didn't know Jesus
Bandit said:
I would much rather be studying the goodness of the Lord than wasting my time going over all this again, and AGAIN. Ever since you came to CR, this is all you want to talk about in the Christian Forum. I find that quite odd.

  1. Mary was born sinless (immaculate conception):
    1. Wisdom 8:19-20, And I was a witty child and had received a good soul. And whereas I was more good, I came to a body undefiled.
  2. It teaches immoral practices, such as lying, suicide, assasination and magical incantation.
Click to expand...
where?

Bandit said:
  1. No apocryphal book is referred to in the New Testament whereas the Old Testament is referred to hundreds of times.
Click to expand...
They are quoted in the bible in all of these places :


Matt. 2:16 - Herod's decree of slaying innocent children was prophesied in Wis. 11:7 - slaying the holy innocents.



Matt. 6:19-20 - Jesus' statement about laying up for yourselves treasure in heaven follows Sirach 29:11 - lay up your treasure.

Matt.. 7:12 - Jesus' golden rule "do unto others" is the converse of Tobit 4:15 - what you hate, do not do to others.

Matt. 7:16,20 - Jesus' statement "you will know them by their fruits" follows Sirach 27:6 - the fruit discloses the cultivation.

Matt. 9:36 - the people were "like sheep without a shepherd" is same as Judith 11:19 - sheep without a shepherd.

Matt. 11:25 - Jesus' description "Lord of heaven and earth" is the same as Tobit 7:18 - Lord of heaven and earth.

Matt. 12:42 - Jesus refers to the wisdom of Solomon which was recorded and made part of the deuterocanonical books.

Matt. 16:18 - Jesus' reference to the "power of death" and "gates of Hades" references Wisdom 16:13.

Matt. 22:25; Mark 12:20; Luke 20:29 - Gospel writers refer to the canonicity of Tobit 3:8 and 7:11 regarding the seven brothers.

Matt. 24:15 - the "desolating sacrilege" Jesus refers to is also taken from 1 Macc. 1:54 and 2 Macc. 8:17.

Matt. 24:16 - let those "flee to the mountains" is taken from 1 Macc. 2:28.

Matt. 27:43 - if He is God's Son, let God deliver him from His adversaries follows Wisdom 2:18.

Mark 4:5,16-17 - Jesus' description of seeds falling on rocky ground and having no root follows Sirach 40:15.

Mark 9:48 - description of hell where their worm does not die and the fire is not quenched references Judith 16:17.

Luke 1:42 - Elizabeth's declaration of Mary's blessedness above all women follows Uzziah's declaration in Judith 13:18.

Luke 1:52 - Mary's magnificat addressing the mighty falling from their thrones and replaced by lowly follows Sirach 10:14.

Luke 2:29 - Simeon's declaration that he is ready to die after seeing the Child Jesus follows Tobit 11:9.

Luke 13:29 - the Lord's description of men coming from east and west to rejoice in God follows Baruch 4:37.

Luke 21:24 - Jesus' usage of "fall by the edge of the sword" follows Sirach 28:18.

Luke 24:4 and Acts 1:10 - Luke's description of the two men in dazzling apparel reminds us of 2 Macc. 3:26.

John 1:3 - all things were made through Him, the Word, follows Wisdom 9:1.

John 3:13 - who has ascended into heaven but He who descended from heaven references Baruch 3:29.

John 4:48; Acts 5:12; 15:12; 2 Cor. 12:12 - Jesus', Luke's and Paul's usage of "signs and wonders" follows Wisdom 8:8.

John 5:18 - Jesus claiming that God is His Father follows Wisdom 2:16.

John 6:35-59 - Jesus' Eucharistic discourse is foreshadowed in Sirach 24:21.

John 10:22 - the identification of the feast of the dedication is taken from 1 Macc. 4:59.

John 10:36 – Jesus accepts the inspiration of Maccabees as He analogizes the Hanukkah consecration to His own consecration to the Father in 1 Macc. 4:36.

John 15:6 - branches that don't bear fruit and are cut down follows Wis. 4:5 where branches are broken off.

Acts 1:15 - Luke's reference to the 120 may be a reference to 1 Macc. 3:55 - leaders of tens / restoration of the twelve.

Acts 10:34; Rom. 2:11; Gal. 2:6 - Peter's and Paul's statement that God shows no partiality references Sirach 35:12.

Acts 17:29 - description of false gods as like gold and silver made by men follows Wisdom 13:10.

Rom 1:18-25 - Paul's teaching on the knowledge of the Creator and the ignorance and sin of idolatry follows Wis. 13:1-10.

Rom. 1:20 - specifically, God's existence being evident in nature follows Wis. 13:1.

Rom. 1:23 - the sin of worshipping mortal man, birds, animals and reptiles follows Wis. 11:15; 12:24-27; 13:10; 14:8.

Rom. 1:24-27 - this idolatry results in all kinds of sexual perversion which follows Wis. 14:12,24-27.

Rom. 4:17 - Abraham is a father of many nations follows Sirach 44:19.

Rom. 5:12 - description of death and sin entering into the world is similar to Wisdom 2:24.

Rom. 9:21 - usage of the potter and the clay, making two kinds of vessels follows Wisdom 15:7.

1 Cor. 2:16 - Paul's question, "who has known the mind of the Lord?" references Wisdom 9:13.

1 Cor. 6:12-13; 10:23-26 - warning that, while all things are good, beware of gluttony, follows Sirach 36:18 and 37:28-30.

1 Cor. 8:5-6 - Paul acknowledging many "gods" but one Lord follows Wis. 13:3.

1 Cor. 10:1 - Paul's description of our fathers being under the cloud passing through the sea refers to Wisdom 19:7.

1 Cor. 10:20 - what pagans sacrifice they offer to demons and not to God refers to Baruch 4:7.

1 Cor. 15:29 - if no expectation of resurrection, it would be foolish to be baptized on their behalf follows 2 Macc. 12:43-45.

Eph. 1:17 - Paul's prayer for a "spirit of wisdom" follows the prayer for the spirit of wisdom in Wisdom 7:7.

Eph. 6:14 - Paul describing the breastplate of righteousness is the same as Wis. 5:18. See also Isaiah 59:17 and 1 Thess. 5:8.

Eph. 6:13-17 - in fact, the whole discussion of armor, helmet, breastplate, sword, shield follows Wis. 5:17-20.

1 Tim. 6:15 - Paul's description of God as Sovereign and King of kings is from 2 Macc. 12:15; 13:4.

2 Tim. 4:8 - Paul's description of a crown of righteousness is similar to Wisdom 5:16.

Heb. 4:12 - Paul's description of God's word as a sword is similar to Wisdom 18:15.

Heb. 11:5 - Enoch being taken up is also referenced in Wis 4:10 and Sir 44:16. See also 2 Kings 2:1-13 & Sir 48:9 regarding Elijah.

Heb 11:35 - Paul teaches about the martyrdom of the mother and her sons described in 2 Macc. 7:1-42.

Heb. 12:12 - the description "drooping hands" and "weak knees" comes from Sirach 25:23.

James 1:19 - let every man be quick to hear and slow to respond follows Sirach 5:11.

James 2:23 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness follows 1 Macc. 2:52 - it was reckoned to him as righteousness.

James 3:13 - James' instruction to perform works in meekness follows Sirach 3:17.

James 5:3 - describing silver which rusts and laying up treasure follows Sirach 29:10-11.

James 5:6 - condemning and killing the "righteous man" follows Wisdom 2:10-20.

1 Peter 1:6-7 - Peter teaches about testing faith by purgatorial fire as described in Wisdom 3:5-6 and Sirach 2:5.

1 Peter 1:17 - God judging each one according to his deeds refers to Sirach 16:12 - God judges man according to his deeds.

2 Peter 2:7 - God's rescue of a righteous man (Lot) is also described in Wisdom 10:6.

Rev. 1:4 – the seven spirits who are before his throne is taken from Tobit 12:15 – Raphael is one of the seven holy angels who present the prayers of the saints before the Holy One.

Rev. 1:18; Matt. 16:18 - power of life over death and gates of Hades follows Wis. 16:13.

Rev. 2:12 - reference to the two-edged sword is similar to the description of God's Word in Wisdom 18:16.

Rev. 5:7 - God is described as seated on His throne, and this is the same description used in Sirach 1:8.

Rev. 8:3-4 - prayers of the saints presented to God by the hand of an angel follows Tobit 12:12,15.

Rev. 8:7 - raining of hail and fire to the earth follows Wisdom 16:22 and Sirach 39:29.

Rev. 9:3 - raining of locusts on the earth follows Wisdom 16:9.

Rev. 11:19 - the vision of the ark of the covenant (Mary) in a cloud of glory was prophesied in 2 Macc. 2:7.

Rev. 17:14 - description of God as King of kings follows 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 19:1 - the cry "Hallelujah" at the coming of the new Jerusalem follows Tobit 13:18.

Rev. 19:11 - the description of the Lord on a white horse in the heavens follows 2 Macc. 3:25; 11:8.

Rev. 19:16 - description of our Lord as King of kings is taken from 2 Macc. 13:4.

Rev. 21:19 - the description of the new Jerusalem with precious stones is prophesied in Tobit 13:17.

Exodus 23:7 - do not slay the innocent and righteous - Dan. 13:53 - do not put to death an innocent and righteous person.

1 Sam. 28:7-20 – the intercessory mediation of deceased Samuel for Saul follows Sirach 46:20.

2 Kings 2:1-13 – Elijah being taken up into heaven follows Sirach 48:9. 2 Tim. 3:16 - the inspired Scripture that Paul was referring to included the deuterocanonical texts that the Protestants removed. The books Baruch, Tobit, Maccabees, Judith, Sirach, Wisdom and parts of Daniel and Esther were all included in the Septuagint that Jesus and the apostles used.

Bandit said:
  1. Because of these and other reasons, the apocryphal books are only valuable as ancient documents illustrative of the manners, language, opinions and history of the East.
IMO those books were written by mystics in the middle ages to try and taint the other 66 books. They did not stay as part of the bible for very long at all.
Click to expand...
This is rediculous Polycarp quotes them
 
This is rediculous Polycarp quotes them
Click to expand...
I am not talking about Polycarp and who wanted them and who did not want them.
I am talking about why and when they were removed.
It always comes down to the same old arguments and divisions since it all started and creates more divisions instead of just letting people believe. It's water under the bridge for me.

Big YAWN
 
The first complete canon of the Roman Catholic Church from the council of Rome in 382.

"The relation of the Old Testament begins: one book of Genesis, one book of Exodus, one book of Leviticus, one book of Numbers, one book of Deuteronomy, one book of Joshua, one book of Judges, one Ruth, 4 books of Kings[in modern Bibles these are the books of Samuel and the books of Kings], two books of Paralipomenon, one book of a hundred fifty Psalms, three books of Solomon: one book of Proverbs, one book of Ecclesiastes, one book of the Song of Songs, as well as one book of Wisdom and one book of Ecclesiasticus." "The relation of the prophets follows: one book of Isaiah, one book of Jeremiah, together with the Quinoth, that is, his lamentations, one book of Ezekiel, one book of Daniel, one book of Hosea, one book of Amos, one book of Micah, one book of Joel, one book of Obadiah, one book of Jonah, one book of Nahum, one book of Habakkuk, one book of Zephaniah, one book of Haggai, one book of Zechariah, one book of Malachi." "The relation of the histories follows: one book of Job, one book of Tobit, 2 books of Ezra, one book of Esther, one book of Judith, 2 books of the Maccabees."

The third Synod of Carthage, ratified the OT canon accepted at the Synod of Hippo Regius in 393 which was identical with the canon from the council of Rome but included the Book of Baruch.
When St. Jerome translated the Bible into Latin and came up with the Vulgate he argued for Veritas Hebraica, or the acceptance of the Jewish Canon for the old testament. He added the translations the the doubtful books at the insistence of the pope. These doubtful books grew in favor and at the Council of Florence in 1451 were deemed canonical in the profession of faith proposed for the Jacobite Orthodox Church. Because of its placement that was not binding for the Catholic Church so they examined the canon again at the Council of Trent April of 1547 they reaffirmed the canon from the Council of Florence. The Old Testament books that had been in doubt were termed "deuterocanonical", not indicating a lesser degree of inspiration, but a later time of final approval.

The protestants never included them in the Old Testament because Martin Luther did exactly what St Jerome wanted to do in the first place and that was to use the Jewish canon for the Old Testament which included none of those books. So basically the Protestants use the Hebrew version and Jewish canon of the Old Testament while Catholics use the Septuagint. So they were deemed canonical at one time only if you think the Catholic church speaks for Christianity as a whole
 
In response to the statement claiming that the OT didnt speak of Jesus im taking the liberty of posting links showing the prophecies of the coming Messiah which have all been fullfilled.

http://biblia.com/jesusbible/prophecies.htm -Prophecies of the OT Fulfilled in Jesus Christ:

http://biblia.com/jesusbible/types.htm - Prophecies and types of each Book of the Old Testament
fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His Church
a total of 1,093
http://biblia.com/jesusbible/psalms-prophecies.htm-92 Prophecies of the Psalms
Fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His Church

http://biblia.com/jesusbible/isaiah2.htm-121 Messianic Prophecies of Isaiah
fulfilled in Jesus Christ and His Church
Isaiah, a type of Christ
 
Apocrypha (əpŏk'rĭfə) [Gr.,=hidden things], term signifying a collection of early Jewish writings excluded from the canon of the Hebrew scriptures. It is not clear why the term was chosen. The Apocrypha include the following books and parts of books: First and Second Esdras; Tobit; Judith; the Additions to Esther; Wisdom of Solomon; Sirach (also called Ecclesiasticus); Baruch; the Letter of Jeremiah (in Baruch); parts of Daniel (the Prayer of Azariah and the Song of the Three Young Men; see also Bel and the Dragon and Susanna 1); First and Second Maccabees; the Prayer of Manasses (see Manasseh). All are included in the Septuagint, with the exception of 2 Esdras=4 Ezra. However, they were not included in the Hebrew canon (ratified c.A.D. 100). In 1566 the collection was deemed “deutero-canonical” by the Roman Catholic Church, meaning that their canonicity was recognized only after a period of time. Protestants follow Jewish tradition in regarding all these books as non-canonical. Jewish and Christian works resembling biblical books, but not included among the Apocrypha, are collected in the Pseudepigrapha. The term Apocrypha is sometimes applied to early Christian writings that were once considered canonical by some but are not in the New Testament.
 
no division, understanding of truth brings people together when people allow the willingness to do so, unity can be achieved.

To hear, see and understand one as to take off the blind folds then one can find amazing richness and splendour in scripture.

Jesus called people 'blind masters'

Thank you to all the learned amongst you, I really enjoyed the posts.

being love

Kimxxx
 
Bandit said:
I am not talking about Polycarp and who wanted them and who did not want them.
I am talking about why and when they were removed.
It always comes down to the same old arguments and divisions since it all started and creates more divisions instead of just letting people believe. It's water under the bridge for me.

Big YAWN
Click to expand...

I'm sorry I thought you were saying that the deuterocanon were written by medieval mystics. So I said this must be wrong because Polycarp lived in the first and second century. I guess I misunderstood you.

 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top