pagan prophecy?

Dear Brian

I said:
1. Of course it's neither fair nor just, but neither is trying to trash mainstream Christian thought, and preaching to Christians that the New Testament is one big polluted lie and that your own perspective is superior.


2. Ultimately, Fundamentalism is about being closed-minded, ignorant, and dismissive of other peoples opinions as valid and just.

3. It is a board for discussing Christian issues and issues relating to Christianity.

4. But simply reference Jesus rather than subscribe to any particular organised Christian belief system, should not feel it's their place to dismiss mainstream Christian ideals on the Christianity board.

5. Yes, I thought that at first - but at its heart is the question of why Christians do not accept essentially pagan interpretations of prophecy, which seems a reasonable enough question to ask Christians. :)
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As we know from many sources Christianity like all the world religions are going through their own growth pains and renewal. And so it is that discussion and sharing views is an important phase in that transition is it not? I have never tried to trash Christian Fundamentalist thought because it is crucial to me that every individual retain their GOD given human right to believe what is right for them and if it is considered that sharing a different perspective and comparative Christian scripture is seen as trashing other's beliefs, that is a very sad state of affairs.

In my view no perspective or belief IS superior to anyone elses and it is imperative that we honour everyone Christian or not. Maybe this is the real problem that humanity now faces as a whole. When Fundamentalists from different religions might believe there way is the only way. Comparative religion is wonderful because it helps people from all religions to see how each religion as the same or similar core values of justice, love, forgiveness, compassion, faith, and equality. The leaders of the Christian faith have become a lot more liberal in their thinking. I do not feel that the whole of the NT is a polluted lie so I am not sure where this judgement originated but it certainly as bounced to a crescendo.

So I pray that we can return to love.

2. I totally agree and should always be honoured but in honouring others does not mean that we cannot share with an open mind and heart.

3. Thank you for that confirmation.

4. I subscribe to the bedrock of Christianity which is love and through this love Jesus is the Saviour and our King, fundamentalists say that the bedrock of Christianity is that Jesus died for our sins. I would be interested if anyone as ever done a poll on this belief with Christians. It does not mean that Fundamentalists are incorrect it would just be good to see exactly where Christianity IS right now, because Christianity cannot exist without the people and the people are changing and because the people are changing the leaders of the Christian faith are fully aware that they must change and modernise too.

5. Perhaps TheLovableNicola would elaborate on her initial post.

Perhaps it would be a good idea for one of our independent learned scholars to place a thread outlining the current Christian ideals promoted by its leaders the Church of Rome modern day.

Apart from that I am behind with my work so I will not be around quite so much but hope to get time to pop in now and again to see all you lovely people.

GOD Bless

Love beyond measure


Kim xx
 
Dear Brian

I perceive this as the main problem for Christianity.


"Children who do not come from churchgoing homes - as I did not - now grow up largely ignorant of Christian ideas in a way unimaginable half a century ago. [...] The comments about religion by journalists in the press and on television [...] suggest that even the basic Christian ideas are no longer understood by university-educated people, still less by others. Indeed even churchgoers can reveal an ignorance of the main elements of Christian belief."

C of E: The State It's In by Monica Furlong, Introduction p3


Religion in Britain cites many statistics and quotes on religion in Britain, which serves as perhaps one of the most striking examples of a country whose populace have forgotten religion in all but name.

Noting that 71.1% of the population of England and Wales said they were Christian:

"Large-scale studies have shown that many of them don’t accept some - or sometimes any - of the basic tenets of the faith they purport to belong to. The BBC’s survey "Soul of Britain" found a huge proportion of nominal Christians who didn’t believe in the virgin birth, the resurrection or the miracles. They didn’t believe that Jesus was the Son of God and, indeed, a good number of them didn’t even believe in a personal God of any kind"
National Secular Society newsletter 2003 Feb 21

Now I accept the virgin birth, the resurrection, the miracles and that Jesus is a son of GOD.

being love

Kim xx
 
The qoute of Virgil the Roman poet was from around 60 BC. While such a Prophecy could not be taken as Scripture it could, i think, pave the way for the acceptance of Christianity into the Roman world.

I dont think TheLovableNicola was trying to elavate the Roman Poet to being equal to scripture, but perhaps just to show that God could be working through 'Pagans' to provide fertile ground for the Apostles work.
 
robocombot said:
The qoute of Virgil the Roman poet was from around 60 BC. While such a Prophecy could not be taken as Scripture it could, i think, pave the way for the acceptance of Christianity into the Roman world.

I dont think TheLovableNicola was trying to elavate the Roman Poet to being equal to scripture, but perhaps just to show that God could be working through 'Pagans' to provide fertile ground for the Apostles work.
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Excellent point. If the military of mankind does reconnasance, why would not God? He is after all the expert in all things...

v/r

Q
 
robocombot said:
The qoute of Virgil the Roman poet was from around 60 BC. While such a Prophecy could not be taken as Scripture it could, i think, pave the way for the acceptance of Christianity into the Roman world.

I dont think TheLovableNicola was trying to elavate the Roman Poet to being equal to scripture, but perhaps just to show that God could be working through 'Pagans' to provide fertile ground for the Apostles work.
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Thats just it!

This too would have given Pagans something to identify with, something that was not seen as just for the Jews, that Jesus came for all, so that all could know God.
 
Dear Robcombot

Fascinating thank you for sharing.

Dear TheLovableNicola

Thank you it is so clear now why pagans would have converted to Christianity and if I may be allowed to add the same thing is happening today, many pagans are hearing and seeing Jesus and moving into Christ Consciousness. The Muslim religion prophecy also states the second coming and that the Muslims will follow him.

I agree GOD speaks to everyone I do not advocate a chosen people for all are chosen but few listen.

being love

Kim xx
 
Acts Chapter 14
And there sat a certain man at Lystra, impotent in his feet, being a cripple from his mother's womb, who never had walked:
The same heard Paul speak: who stedfastly beholding him, and perceiving that he had faith to be healed,Said with a loud voice, Stand upright on thy feet. And he leaped and walked.
And when the people saw what Paul had done, they lifted up their voices, saying in the speech of Lycaonia, The gods are come down to us in the likeness of men.
And they called Barnabas, Jupiter; and Paul, Mercurius, because he was the chief speaker.
Then the priest of Jupiter, which was before their city, brought oxen and garlands unto the gates, and would have done sacrifice with the people. Which when the apostles, Barnabas and Paul, heard of, they rent their clothes, and ran in among the people, crying out, And saying, Sirs, why do ye these things? We also are men of like passions with you, and preach unto you that ye should turn from these vanities unto the living God, which made heaven, and earth, and the sea, and all things that are therein: Who in times past suffered all nations to walk in their own ways. Nevertheless he left not himself without witness, in that he did good, and gave us rain from heaven, and fruitful seasons, filling our hearts with food and gladness.And with these sayings scarce restrained they the people, that they had not done sacrifice unto them.

I think this is very similiar to what we have here in concept Paul said God did leave Himself a witness amongst the nations This says nothing about prophecy but rather good seasons rain things needful for survival and life on this planet.
The mention of planets and gods come down in the likeness of men. sounds alot like that poem.
I suppose the apostles could have gently tried to correct these people preaching a soft message that would have gradually led them to the truth but instead their reaction was that of what seems to be almost panic at the thought of being combined with this religious practice. The fact that Paul called these things Vanities gives me the same authority.
IMO They are vain worthless without merit and edify nothing.

And I too would say it best to turn from these things after this example

Interesting that for saying these things Paul was stoned and left for dead wonder how well it will go over here?

****DUCKS****:rolleyes:
 
While anyone stands in judgement they will not hear or see GOD and the Holy Spirit for GOD comes to the pure of heart.
 
Joh 7:24 Judge not according to the appearance, but judge righteous judgment

Mt 5:10 Blessed are they which are persecuted for righteousness' sake: for theirs is the kingdom of heaven.

Now I need to decide which is right.

Thus saith the Lord....or....Thus saith SacredStar

think ya already know which one I am going with :D
 
Sacredstar said:
In my view no perspective or belief IS superior to anyone elses and it is imperative that we honour everyone Christian or not.
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Indeed, it's more a case that I think I've been allowing the admin side of the site to slip a little, and that a little reigning in is required to ensure the site works to the advantage of all people of all faiths, rather than is seen to allow any particular belief set to impinge of others.
 
Dear Basstian

But I can show you bible scripture where it says the exact opposite and instructs us not to judge or we will be condemned so then what do you choose?

I choose the positive of biblical scripture everytime for GOD is good!

being love

Kim x
 
Matthew 7

Judging Others

1“Do not judge, or you too will be judged. 2For in the same way you judge others, you will be judged, and with the measure you use, it will be measured to you.

Romans 2

God's Righteous Judgment

1You, therefore, have no excuse, you who pass judgment on someone else, for at whatever point you judge the other, you are condemning yourself, because you who pass judgment do the same things. 2Now we know that God's judgment against those who do such things is based on truth. 3So when you, a mere man, pass judgment on them and yet do the same things, do you think you will escape God's judgment? 4Or do you show contempt for the riches of his kindness, tolerance and patience, not realizing that God's kindness leads you toward repentance?

5But because of your stubbornness and your unrepentant heart, you are storing up wrath against yourself for the day of God's wrath, when his righteous judgment will be revealed. 6God “will give to each person according to what he has done.”[a] 7To those who by persistence in doing good seek glory, honor and immortality, he will give eternal life. 8But for those who are selfseeking and who reject the truth and follow evil, there will be wrath and anger. 9There will be trouble and distress for every human being who does evil: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile; 10but glory, honor and peace for everyone who does good: first for the Jew, then for the Gentile. 11For God does not show favoritism.

12All who sin apart from the law will also perish apart from the law, and all who sin under the law will be judged by the law. 13For it is not those who hear the law who are righteous in God's sight, but it is those who obey the law who will be declared righteous. 14(Indeed, when Gentiles, who do not have the law, do by nature things required by the law, they are a law for themselves, even though they do not have the law, 15since they show that the requirements of the law are written on their hearts, their consciences also bearing witness, and their thoughts now accusing, now even defending them.) 16This will take place on the day when God will judge men's secrets through Jesus Christ, as my gospel declares.


Chapter 11 Corinthians

31: For if we could judge ourselves we should not be judged.

32: But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Chapter 15 Corinthians

33: For GOD is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
 
Sacredstar said:
Chapter 11 Corinthians

31: For if we could judge ourselves we should not be judged.

32: But when we are judged, we are chastened of the Lord, that we should not be condemned with the world.

Chapter 15 Corinthians

33: For GOD is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.
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"If we could judge ourselves..." but we can't. A man with a cause can not be judge over that cause. That is a conflict of interest, and biased from the start.

I would not want to be judge of myself, for I would either be too harsh, or too lenient. Most likely the former, rather than the latter.

Finally, the world today shows that man is judging himself, Sacred Star. In fact he has condemned himself to death. Carrying out the execution is merely a matter of time...

v/r

Q
 
There is a HUGE HUGE difference between Judging others and Judging things

I have no way to correctly choose anything unless I judge. I cant pick out an apple without using some kind of judgement.

I am allowed to judge things. Writings, prophecy and posts on this board fall under that kind of judgement.

In other words If I said "Evil is Good and Good is Evil. Violence is the only way to solve problems." By your view on judging I would have to say " well thats sounds like a nice view Love love love. "

I wont do it havent done it I dont waiver from this I use the scripture to judge what is of God or not. If it doesnt line up than the Bible judges it not me.
Who art thou to judge your brother.
is not the same as
Who art thou to judge what your brother posts.
 
Who art thou to judge your brother.
is not the same as
Who art thou to judge what your brother posts.
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Lol...that's a humorous thought - God giving commandments on proper internet usage. :D

Thou shalt use DSL, and not 56k, for 56k is an abomination in mine eyes. And whomsoever shalt useth 56k, must thou stoneth.
 
KnightoftheRose said:
Lol...that's a humorous thought - God giving commandments on proper internet usage. :D

Thou shalt use DSL, and not 56k, for 56k is an abomination in mine eyes. And whomsoever shalt useth 56k, must thou stoneth.
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Oh, oh...I'm using satellite :eek:

;)

v/r

Q
 
Getting back to pagan prophecy. I haven;\t read all the posts but has anyone mentioned the three wisemen who supposedly went to see Jesus when he was born. They were from the east, possibly persian zoroastrians?

I'm not saying they were pagan because they were zoroastrian, as one pointed out ,pagan originally referred to country folk. This definition has changed and some think of pagans as anyone who dabbles in what some may see as occultish or mystic.

What is more mystic and even occultish than christianity? Before you jump on me look up the word. Better yet I'll do it for you.

occult:1> not revealed, secret 2. abstruse, mysterious 3>of or relating to supernatural agencies, their effects or knowledge of them.

Sounds like christianity to me. I mean this in a good way.
 
"For in him we live and move and have our being. As some of your own poets have said "We are his offspring". - Acts 17:28

Even St Paul corroborates his argument by reference to a Greek poet.
 
Getting back to pagan prophecy. I haven;\t read all the posts but has anyone mentioned the three wisemen who supposedly went to see Jesus when he was born. They were from the east, possibly persian zoroastrians?
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Who can say? Honestly, we aren't given enough information concerning them to make any claims as to who they are or where they came from.

Heh, I get enough pointless speculation on Fox News; I don't really have any desire to apply that to the Bible.

What is more mystic and even occultish than christianity? Before you jump on me look up the word. Better yet I'll do it for you.

occult:1> not revealed, secret 2. abstruse, mysterious 3>of or relating to supernatural agencies, their effects or knowledge of them.

Sounds like christianity to me. I mean this in a good way.
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Um, if Christianity is supposed to be "secret" and "mysterious", someone within our ranks has a very loud mouth, lol.

Although, the third definition of "occut" is certainly one element of Christianity. Especially within the context of the OT.
 
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