bgruagach said:
The word "pagan" is like the word "witch" in that there are many (often conflicting) definitions that are in use today. The definition that Thomas gave for "pagan", that is a person who comes from the country, is definitely one of the earliest meanings. However the word is often used in very different ways today with some of those definitions having little to do with whether the pagans in question are country-dwellers or city-dwellers.
bgruagach said:
Yes the word "Pagan" is taking on new meanings every day, and people who adhere to that word are constantly re-defining it to fit what their idea of that word is. I guess that I'm sort of a purist, and want to know what the earliest definition of a word is, because that, for me is the basis of its true meaning. The rest is just "made up", so to me, when people "invent" a use for a word, it isnt really valid historically - anyone can make anything they want to up, but that does not make it correct. You know what I mean? Pagan's earliest meaning is "country person", i.e. person who is not on top of the most modern developments and lifestyle issues, especially pertaining to religious issues. I guess what that means is that while the majority of people in cities are into the newest fashions, highest technology and most creative forms of spirituality, the "country folk" may not have heard about that yet, or may not be under peer pressure to "try" it out, and so they stick with what they were already doing, not knowing it is "fashionable" to change their ways. Maybe Pagan means "old fashioned". In this sense, a city person who is aware of the "new" may choose to remain "old fashioned", even when science and new discovery disprove their methods. Sometimes the old methods work the best (like Grandma's chicken soup) and other times they can be downright dangerous (like curing cancer with chanting and incense).
Another common definition for pagan is to simply say non-Judeo-Christian-Muslim. But while this is a common definition, there are many groups that are not Jewish, Christian, or Muslim who would say they are not Pagan either.
By some definitions, some Christians could be considered to be Pagans. But by other equally valid definitions of Pagan, they most certainly would not be Pagans.
I think that by the "correct" or earliest definition of "Pagan", the word Christian does not fit, because when it developed it was the hottest, newest thing going, just like the resurgence of neo-paganism is now, leaving the majority baffled as to how anyone could possibly believe "that". The majority is not going to join up, because they aren't sure about it since it is just to new, but those who do join, leave the rest of the "old timers" to their antiquated thinking, and "old ways" - hm, in a funny twist, Neo-paganism actually makes the old, traditional religions of Christianity, Judaism and Islam the real "Pagans", hahahah!
But then again, Christianity's idea of the baby born in a "cave", the marriage of the "spirit" to an earth woman to give that baby a birth, and that baby's adult life used to heal and work supernatural things on or toward the earth, as well as his symbolic "marriage" to his own mother ( is of the earth and represents earth), because all believers become his "bride", (and she definitely believed), and of course his awaited "return" - that all matches up with the pagan cycle of holidays, only the pagan cycle of holidays takes place over a year, not millennia, which Christ's story does.
While we are at it, When Moses left Egypt's pantheon system for the "one" God, he was leaving behind the "old" beliefs and replacing them with new ones, so he left paganism behind. But in a strange twist, when Christians came up with their "new Jewish doctrines" they left some of Moses' antiquated thinking behind, making jews the "old timers" or Pagans...
By the way, I noticed that someone mentioned the "Key of Solomon" Grimoire on one of the posts. I have read an online version, and I have to tell you a couple of my observations about it. First, it, like the 6th and 7th book of Moses, offer all the same things as the Bible does - friendship, health, wealth, Every parchment mentioned in these Grimoirs has an equivilent promise in the Bible that is aquired by faith in the "one" deity spoken about in that other post. The Grimoirs come much later on in time, and offer these things through the wearing of different parchments and so forth, a much more complex and less secure method (God forbid you forget to wear it, or loose it or something). The Bible offers these things just for believing in God (that unknowable spirit mentioned in other posts). You don't have to go through all that "work" to get the things you seek. I think the Bible - the "Old" method (pagan) is much easier, and these Grimoirs base their offer of these things on Biblical ideas anyway, but try to make aquiring these givens as a secret and mysterious challenge that is not necessary. In fact, before reading the 6th and 7th Book of Moses, or the Key of Solomon, you may enjoy the background information of the First Five Bookfs of Moses (the Pentateuch), and the background information of King Solomon (i & ii Kings and i & ii Chronicles) and Solomon's background story/ancestry, which is from the Book of Joshua on through Kings and Chronicles in the Hebrew Scriptures. I am amaized that people seeking to gain the most knowledge would avoid the background writings to what they consider important background works on the subject, or not realize this...that does not make any sense at all, because it was so obvious to me. I Read these Grimoirs on line and thought - "ok, they say to wear this parchment to get that...but I already have that promised to me just for belief in "the One"..why doesn't the writer of the Grimoire realize this? Didn't he read the background books before writing this piece???" I was left baffled that a writer who advocates these types of gains did not "know" about the easier, guaranteed route. I personally do not see how the Key of Solomon or the 6th/7th Book of Moses can be taken seriously when you read the Pentateuch or Kings/Chronicles, because these Grimoires try to "correct" Biblical information/outcome/offers that already basically guaranteed to anyone who just believes in God (the "one"), and you don't have to wear a parchment tucked away in your clothing, or do any sort of ritual, you just "have" it as a gift because you are loved by "the One" (God, mentioned in another thread). While that thread wonders whether one can know that "one", The Bible contends that you can, and if you do get to know "the One", you will get lots of good, free stuff! I'm in for easy, and for security, especially when you get exactly the same thing free, as opposed to having to do alot of elaborate things to get the same effect. Am I missing something? That's my reasoning anyway, and the word pagan, or not, I think doing something the most efficient, easiest way is really what most people need.
