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I would like to discuss everyone views and share my beliefs.
What do you belive about the devil? His purpose? existence & Methods of deception?
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Postmaster
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I believe there is no such thing as evil.. I know it can be dangerous thinking. But I believe strongly in the saying every cloud has a silver lining. If it wasn't for ancient wars we'd have never developed into civilisations. When Humans discovered the wonders of cultivating the land, they found the need of protecting it and ever since then our technology has developed massively out of wars. A cycle of constant good showing the power of the Lord. But at the same time, we need to find God through a different path, a relgious path a less extreme path, through peace, harmony and love, that is the only true path. and as for the devil, he is merely the creation of man.
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
All the central icons in western myth are a reflection of the way humans try to understand themselves. Thus, the "devil" is us. In that sense, the devil certainly "exists."
Our method of deception is simply to convince ourselves that we have "knowledge of good and evil" that makes us "like God" rather than eating from the Tree of Life. It is the introduction of this lie - that we know good and evil - that introduces shame/self-judgment, which is immediately turned on others as blame/judgment of others and ultimately and necessarily becomes a suspicion against all the universe ("the Garden"). It's all there in Genesis 2 and 3.
Our method of deception is simply to convince ourselves that we have "knowledge of good and evil" that makes us "like God" rather than eating from the Tree of Life. It is the introduction of this lie - that we know good and evil - that introduces shame/self-judgment, which is immediately turned on others as blame/judgment of others and ultimately and necessarily becomes a suspicion against all the universe ("the Garden"). It's all there in Genesis 2 and 3.
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
BTW, given my understanding of who the "devil" is, the meaning of my screen name should be a little more apparent.
path_of_one
Embracing the Mystery
Interesting... I pretty much think along the lines of AdD.
This was discussed a bit in the "fallen angels" thread on the mysticism forum, but suffice it to say that I think of it more like the Jewish notion. Satan, which to me is a symbol of our own inner temptation and "demons" of hatred, fear, ignorance, etc... is only there because God created it to be there. Satan has a purpose, and that is to test or moral fibre and for us to grow spiritually and learn to lean on God. I don't see Satan as a personal spiritual entity so much as a symbol of that which is in us.
I also define evil differently than most. I think sin is "missing the mark"- making mistakes, which everyone does. That's part of being on earth- fallibility. Evil, to me, is neither making mistakes nor the natural cycles of this world (death, famine, natural disasters, disease). Natural cycles are just that, they are natural. It is only our perspective that makes them bad or evil. Really they are there for a reason, and I choose to learn how they operate and embrace those cycles, while attempting to alleviate suffering rather than thinking they are somehow tied up with the Devil. Evil, to me, speaks of knowingly harming someone. It is being malicious and taking pleasure in others' suffering, spiritual stumbling, etc.
The Devil, to me, is a symbolic representation of the temptations that are in all of us, and were created by God. When I read Revelations, for example, and Satan and his demons are cast into the lake of fire, I see this as symbolic of a new world in which we are all in the constant presence of God, and have shed our temptations to harm one another and ourselves. Without these temptations we would not learn or grow spiritually. Without pain and loss and suffering we would lose out on lessons that teach us forgiveness and hope and finding strength, peace, and joy in the eternal Divine.
This was discussed a bit in the "fallen angels" thread on the mysticism forum, but suffice it to say that I think of it more like the Jewish notion. Satan, which to me is a symbol of our own inner temptation and "demons" of hatred, fear, ignorance, etc... is only there because God created it to be there. Satan has a purpose, and that is to test or moral fibre and for us to grow spiritually and learn to lean on God. I don't see Satan as a personal spiritual entity so much as a symbol of that which is in us.
I also define evil differently than most. I think sin is "missing the mark"- making mistakes, which everyone does. That's part of being on earth- fallibility. Evil, to me, is neither making mistakes nor the natural cycles of this world (death, famine, natural disasters, disease). Natural cycles are just that, they are natural. It is only our perspective that makes them bad or evil. Really they are there for a reason, and I choose to learn how they operate and embrace those cycles, while attempting to alleviate suffering rather than thinking they are somehow tied up with the Devil. Evil, to me, speaks of knowingly harming someone. It is being malicious and taking pleasure in others' suffering, spiritual stumbling, etc.
The Devil, to me, is a symbolic representation of the temptations that are in all of us, and were created by God. When I read Revelations, for example, and Satan and his demons are cast into the lake of fire, I see this as symbolic of a new world in which we are all in the constant presence of God, and have shed our temptations to harm one another and ourselves. Without these temptations we would not learn or grow spiritually. Without pain and loss and suffering we would lose out on lessons that teach us forgiveness and hope and finding strength, peace, and joy in the eternal Divine.
Ciel
in essence
Re: What do you belive about the devil? His purpose? existence & Methods of deception
So, Abogado del Diablo,
Given your understanding as you say of who the devil is and the meaning of your screen name -
Are you your own self deception?
Could it be said that when man knows another as he knows himself, he ceases to exist?
So, Abogado del Diablo,
Given your understanding as you say of who the devil is and the meaning of your screen name -
Are you your own self deception?
Could it be said that when man knows another as he knows himself, he ceases to exist?
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
Re: What do you belive about the devil? His purpose? existence & Methods of deception
Of course. We all are.Ciel said:
That certainly could be said.Ciel said:
Ciel
in essence
Re: What do you belive about the devil? His purpose? existence & Methods of deception
Thank you Abogado for your honesty,
In so few words all is revealed.
You see, in the position of the alter ego Diablo you choose to answer for all, for you would believe that all are as yourself.
If we were to turn this around to see humanity as self responsive, that is taking responsibility for ones own thought and actions without blame or shame in the awareness that each single unit is a part of the greater whole and this builds the micro and macrocosm of life. Wouldn't the universe," the garden", as you so well name it flourish through its own ability in discernment of reality of truth?
Thank you Abogado for your honesty,
In so few words all is revealed.
You see, in the position of the alter ego Diablo you choose to answer for all, for you would believe that all are as yourself.
If we were to turn this around to see humanity as self responsive, that is taking responsibility for ones own thought and actions without blame or shame in the awareness that each single unit is a part of the greater whole and this builds the micro and macrocosm of life. Wouldn't the universe," the garden", as you so well name it flourish through its own ability in discernment of reality of truth?
Abogado del Diablo
Ferally Decent
Re: What do you belive about the devil? His purpose? existence & Methods of deception
Yes, it would - and it does.Ciel said:
janitor
advanced cleaning
Here is an interesting thought about the devil and his purposes, although I have to admit that this is not one of my own, it is still very interesting.
What if this world is one big experiment allowed by God for satan. Satans goal is to try and get everyone on earth to worship him. Then he could go to God and say look, everyone on earth worships me and they are all relatively happy. God would have to grant satan some sort of ownership over this world. It kinda goes with the question of "why do bad things happen to good people". I actually believe a better question is why to good things happen to people who do awful things"? The answer could be that satan already has these folks, and the way to get to the folks who do not follow him, either directly or indirectly, is to place all kinds of hardships upon them. This would prove his point that he is every bit as much god as God is.
the janitor
What if this world is one big experiment allowed by God for satan. Satans goal is to try and get everyone on earth to worship him. Then he could go to God and say look, everyone on earth worships me and they are all relatively happy. God would have to grant satan some sort of ownership over this world. It kinda goes with the question of "why do bad things happen to good people". I actually believe a better question is why to good things happen to people who do awful things"? The answer could be that satan already has these folks, and the way to get to the folks who do not follow him, either directly or indirectly, is to place all kinds of hardships upon them. This would prove his point that he is every bit as much god as God is.
the janitor
I believe that the same way there is light and positive energy helping us complete our journey, there is also darkness and negative energy trying to seduce us, i believe there must be a balance.
Our soul goes through a huge learning process over our many lives, we will decide which path we will take. If it is the dark path then your soul will experience the opposite of the light and you will become a helper to seduce others towards the darkness.
His purpose is to provide a balance so the good souls will understand how to be good through knowledge. So your soul will know right from wrong.
Our soul goes through a huge learning process over our many lives, we will decide which path we will take. If it is the dark path then your soul will experience the opposite of the light and you will become a helper to seduce others towards the darkness.
His purpose is to provide a balance so the good souls will understand how to be good through knowledge. So your soul will know right from wrong.
I have gotten the most distinct impression that satan is plural. It confuses me because I beleived that he was the leader of all demons, cast out of heaven for his pride, and sentenced to the earth until the end of time, and Gods jugdment. I guess I'm old fasioned compared to others who have already posted. O, well.
Perhaps the true meanings and names have been lost to time, but even though it is a source of ignorance to us, the main themes remain the same. Timeless and consistant.
O' I dont know, my mother in law could be the devil....who am I to clear the smoke?
Perhaps the true meanings and names have been lost to time, but even though it is a source of ignorance to us, the main themes remain the same. Timeless and consistant.
O' I dont know, my mother in law could be the devil....who am I to clear the smoke?
YO-ELEVEN-11
Watcher
janitor said:
That is most defiently a good question.
I have always wondered how and why people who do "crimes" get so rich.
i.e. The Maffia, Hitler, The American slave trade etc...