Tattoos, body art and cosmetic surgery

[Postmaster]

I was raised to believe that Tattoos, body art, cosmetics surgery was barbaric and wrong, personally I don't have a problem with people who do, however I would never on purposely add an edition to my natural form. One of my main reasons is since this is the way I came as the design of God, as so I should remain. People endure pain just to change themselves, after death we leave all our worldly possessions including our bodies, so why spend time and money to make yourself look pretty when that money or cause could go to a greater thing? Does anyone agree?

 

[PersonaNonGrata]

me and my back do

 

[path_of_one]

The only problem I have with cosmetic surgery and whatnot is when people do this for the wrong reasons. A lot of women I know have gone under the knife to look younger or more like the "ideal" that they're sold by the media. That, in my opinion, is unhealthy. They need to work on body image and boosting self esteem rather than stuffing plastic into their bodies, in my honest opinion. I do think, however, that there are cases in which cosmetic surgery is OK- fixing birth defects or scars from accidents, for example. But overall I think there is too much emphasis in US culture on youth and the media version of beauty, and so tons of women my age out there think they need breast augmentation, butt lifts, liposuction, etc. when what we need is to love ourselves as real women.

Body art and tattoos are an entirely different thing for most people. This is using the body as canvas to express oneself artistically. While much of cosmetic surgery has the goal of conforming to a societal ideal, body art has the goal of self-expression. Two very different things in my opinion. I know lots of people with tattoos, piercings, brandings, etc. and their body art is an expression of their loves in life, beliefs, heritage, etc. and is typically very meaningful to them. I draw and paint and do calligraphy, and I plan to get a few tattoos in the next couple years of original artwork I've done- a Celtic cross and a calligraphy passage (it's currently my signature).

Bottom line to me- God made us in His image, but I think it's OK to fix the results of birth defects or traumas and such if we can. After all, God gave us a brain to create medicine and make moral decisions about it too. As for body art- it's art. It's still generated by the same desire for self-expression. Why is drawing on the body (or piercing, etc.) so different from expression on canvas or paper?

As for not being able to take our body art with us, we buy lots of things we can't take with us- our house, cars, trinkets and clothes, collectibles... Why is spending our extra money on body art any different from wasting that money on other material things? To me, it's all about moderation and balance. Freeing oneself from attachment to material things does not necessitate living an ascetic life, and material possessions to me are all the same, whether you're collecting tattoos or fine china.

 

[Bandit]

some of this is people trying to become imortal in a mortal body..like having brown hair with no gray at the age of 70. LOL


PersonaNonGrata, what is all the design you have? it looks like it spells God. I always wanted a tatoo with a cross & crown.

 

[PistisSophia]

Jewish persons having tatoo's are buried on the periphery of a Jewish cemetery, as are suicides.

 

[dauer]

PS,

that's an old wives' tale, I think actually in both cases.

Dauer

 

[Awaiting_the_fifth]

From a buddhist point of view, since our boddies do not exist, it is pointless but not "barbaric and wrong" to decorate (or disfigure, however you look at it) them.

 

[Geist]

People change their apperance to gain the attention of others to be extreamly unique and why not? Its your money and you skin I see no reason why you can or can't do this.

 

[ISFP]

i'm alright with pericings and tattoos, though i have varying feelings about cosmetic surgery...

for example, a friend of mine has recently gotten a nose job. she had been receiving brutal treatment from other kids for years, motivated mainly by anti-semitism. she felt that her getting a nose job would help her blend in with her peers and make her less of a target for violence and cruelty.

my mother is also considering surgery to tighten her jaw line and tighten the skin on her face. she doesn't like the way she's looking as she ages and would like surgery to look younger.

i'm not sure i agree with my mom's decision. what if something goes wrong during surgery? would it be worth it? no one's beating her up for ageing, and it's a process everyone has to go through. it's also costly and she'd have to take the time to heal from the surgery.

 

[Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine]

Reconstructive surgery (a form of cosmetic surgery) is, imho, okay because it repairs or replaces physical problems (such as a "boob job" on a woman who undergoes a radical mastectomy, a "nose job" on someone who has a deviated septum, surgery to counteract a craniofacial deformity that would otherwise restrict brain growth, skin grafts on fingers/toes that are/were reattached due to an accident or grafts to replace burned flesh, etc. or in order to escape from a dangerous/deadly situation and one needs a new identity.) Cosmetic surgery to "look younger/better" I feel is ridiculous, especially if it is entirely elective.

Tatoos and other body art are okay within reason. These people with so many tatoos that you can't really tell what their ethnic ancestory is are, imho, fruitcakes. Another thing about tatoos is that it may be a bit painful when you get it but it is even worse if you want to remove it later! At least with some body piercings, if you want to get rid of it/them, you just need to leave out the hoops/studs, and the holes will close on their own.

Phyllis Sidhe_Uaine

 

[Thought Circles]

First post, but i belive tattoos and body art are a very acceptable form of self expression. I have a tatto of an angel carrying a devil away. It has allowed me to have MANY disscussions with complete strangers that I never would have, and what a waste to have not run across theese people in my lifetime. I feel that this type of expression bonds people together by allowing others to see a portion of themselves.

 

[InLove]

I know that anyone reading this thread has probably read in depth what these two contributors have to say. And while I normally try to avoid re-stating things, especially long quotations like this, I believe so much that what they have to say is important, and worth reading again.

I apologize for not quoting each of you by name--Phyllis (I am still working on the rest of it-forgive me) and path_of_one. Tried to edit to make it clear, but alas time and my own limitations present a temporary setback.

Reconstructive surgery (a form of cosmetic surgery) is, imho, okay because it repairs or replaces physical problems (such as a "boob job" on a woman who undergoes a radical mastectomy, a "nose job" on someone who has a deviated septum, surgery to counteract a craniofacial deformity that would otherwise restrict brain growth, skin grafts on fingers/toes that are/were reattached due to an accident or grafts to replace burned flesh, etc. or in order to escape from a dangerous/deadly situation and one needs a new identity.) Cosmetic surgery to "look younger/better" I feel is ridiculous, especially if it is entirely elective.

The only problem I have with cosmetic surgery and whatnot is when people do this for the wrong reasons. A lot of women I know have gone under the knife to look younger or more like the "ideal" that they're sold by the media. That, in my opinion, is unhealthy. They need to work on body image and boosting self esteem rather than stuffing plastic into their bodies, in my honest opinion. I do think, however, that there are cases in which cosmetic surgery is OK- fixing birth defects or scars from accidents, for example. But overall I think there is too much emphasis in US culture on youth and the media version of beauty, and so tons of women my age out there think they need breast augmentation, butt lifts, liposuction, etc. when what we need is to love ourselves as real women.

Body art and tattoos are an entirely different thing for most people. This is using the body as canvas to express oneself artistically. While much of cosmetic surgery has the goal of conforming to a societal ideal, body art has the goal of self-expression. Two very different things in my opinion. I know lots of people with tattoos, piercings, brandings, etc. and their body art is an expression of their loves in life, beliefs, heritage, etc. and is typically very meaningful to them. I draw and paint and do calligraphy, and I plan to get a few tattoos in the next couple years of original artwork I've done- a Celtic cross and a calligraphy passage (it's currently my signature).

Bottom line to me- God made us in His image, but I think it's OK to fix the results of birth defects or traumas and such if we can. After all, God gave us a brain to create medicine and make moral decisions about it too. As for body art- it's art. It's still generated by the same desire for self-expression. Why is drawing on the body (or piercing, etc.) so different from expression on canvas or paper?

As for not being able to take our body art with us, we buy lots of things we can't take with us- our house, cars, trinkets and clothes, collectibles... Why is spending our extra money on body art any different from wasting that money on other material things? To me, it's all about moderation and balance. Freeing oneself from attachment to material things does not necessitate living an ascetic life, and material possessions to me are all the same, whether you're collecting tattoos or fine china.

I will post more a little later, but for now, I just wanted to thank you both for actually utilizing the brain and spirit you are blessed with.

InPeace.
InLove

 

[foreversearching]

I don't see anyting wrong with having tattoos and body piercings. I think sometime people can over do it... (see leapord man)

But I have a tattoo and I have my ears pierced, I haven't gone over board. What I beleive is your body is only your earthly part, when you die you don't need it and it will decay - so make the most of it while you've got it. My tattoo is a rose with a little butterfly on it (see picture)

Plastic surgery is a different matter. On the one hand if it maes somebody feel better about themselves then why not? On the other hand most people who have cosmetic surgery don't actualy need it and it can go horribly wrong. I think it should just be for reconstructive surgery really, or for people who are going through extreme unhappiness about the way they look and it is making them depressed. Otherwise there's no need it really.

 

[bruceg]

I'm going to start off with the fact I have no tattoos... however, to my mind, there's nothing intrinsically wrong with tattoos and cosmetic surgery - assuming you're not spending money on that rather than taking care of your responsibility to yourself and dependents (i.e. don't spend the food money on it... and especially not the kids food money).

The problem I see with cosmetic surgery is twofold... one is that for some people they're doing it to feel better about themselves. That's great if it works, but I think often it is ineffective because then they just switch to something else they don't like about themselves. The second problem I see is pressure put on people to have cosmetic surgery by their peers/family (and occasionally doctors..). That is just wrong. But it happens...

Tattoos have side effects, though - they do cause reactions in others, and if you have visible tattoos, you need to be prepared for those reactions for the rest of your life. (Not to mention the risk of disease - Hepatitis C for example). Not to mention what the tattoos will look like as you age... that perky dragon on a 20-something's chest is going to distort rather wierdly as the effects of age & gravity catch up (think of beer gut & tattoos)..

 

[THUNK]

Jewish persons having tatoo's are buried on the periphery of a Jewish cemetery, as are suicides.

So much for forgiveness and understanding.

 

[bruceg]

{Regarding tattoos and Jewish burial}Yet another myth:


http://urj.org/ask/tattoos/
Despite the persistence of a myth to the contrary, a tattoo is not one of those offenses. There is no prohibition against burying someone with a tattoo in the Jewish cemetery. (Reform Judaism website)

http://www.aish.com/rabbi/ATR_browse.asp?l=t&offset=4
Regarding your column last week about the Torah prohibiting tattoos: I have a tattoo on my left arm from the German Auschwitz camp, and I will be buried with this I think.

THE AISH RABBI REPLIES:
Actually, anyone with a tattoo may be buried in a Jewish cemetery. But certainly in your case, the tattoo itself is not a Torah prohibition, since it was done under coercion.

http://www.torah.org/qanda/seequanda.php?id=184 (Orthodox site)

It is not prohibited to bury someone who has tattoos or body piercings in a Jewish cemetery. Although the Torah prohibits making a permanent tattoo on one's body (VaYikra 19:28), doing so does not disqualify one from burial in a Jewish cemetery. Body piercing or mutilation is prohibited only in grief over a deceased friend or relative (as is common in some cultures), or if it is done to emulate a non-Jewish custom. In any case, it does not disqualify a person from burial in a Jewish cemetery.
Deliberate, permanent disfigurement of the body would also be prohibited. But such practices as ear piercing and cosmetic surgery (e.g., elective rhinoplasty) are not prohibited. The purpose of cosmetic surgery is to make the body more beautiful not to disfigure it.

 

[PistisSophia]

So much for forgiveness and understanding.

If one wants to be a cafeteria Catholic or a Smorgasbord Jew, so be it; I've seen such things in Jewish cemeteries. Do I agree with it? Suicide must always be treated as an act which is never condoned. Suicide is a permanent answer to a temporary problem.

Tatoo's, I don't plan on getting any but I personally see no harm in the practice, so long as everything is sterile, I suppose, when the item is being applied.

 

[Chezz]

i have no problem in tattoos, but i wouldnt go as far as "body modification" (ie. metal implants...) or piercings. as a matter of fact i have some ink myself and are probably goin in for another one soon.

my next one is going to be something like what my avatar is , but im goin to re-do it a little bit.