For Mee:

Proph 1 said:
Oh I totally agree, there is NO contradictions. The scripture is clearly stating that Jesus is the first and the last. The SAME first and the last in Isa. 41:4. It is saying that Jesus is the Alpha and Omega. The SAME Alpha and the Omega in Rev. 1:8. It is not saying that he was the first of God's creation. Where did you get that it was that? It says the first and the last is the Redeemer God. And, it says the first and the last was dead and now lives forevermore. Two facts about Jesus is:

He claimed to be God, and he died once for sinners, and now lives forever.
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when Jesus died on the earth he was the first one that Jehovah resurrected to imortal spirit life ,anyone ressurected after that , would be resurrected by Jesus himself.so Jesus was the first and the last because Jehovah has given Jesus the aurthority to resurrect ones who will go to heaven . and those who will live on the paradise earth .remember that Jesus has the keys to do that
And he laid his right hand upon me and said: "Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des..........yes Jesus has the aurthority to release those in the grave because he has the keys...........

 
mee said:
when Jesus died on the earth he was the first one that Jehovah resurrected to imortal spirit life ,anyone ressurected after that , would be resurrected by Jesus himself.so Jesus was the first and the last because Jehovah has given Jesus the aurthority to resurrect ones who will go to heaven . and those who will live on the paradise earth .remember that Jesus has the keys to do that
And he laid his right hand upon me and said: "Do not be fearful. I am the First and the Last, and the living one; and I became dead, but, look! I am living forever and ever, and I have the keys of death and of Ha´des..........yes Jesus has the aurthority to release those in the grave because he has the keys...........
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Lazarus was the first resurrected and was in fact resurrected by Jesus before Jesus died. The Bible does not say that Lazarus died again. In fact the Bible specifically states that every man is appointed to die only once. And some never taste death. Peter, resurrected a child from death after Jesus left. The first imortal spirits were stated in Genesis (I believe it was one of Seth's children who walked with God for 42 years and was taken up physically into Heaven). Then Elija was taken up into Heaven physically. These occured before the physical arrival of Jesus.

However, I do believe all of these events were orchestrated by a very busy and present Jesus. Jesus also stated that men who followed Him (accepted Him as savior), would do even greater things than He did, while He was on this Earth. ;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Lazarus was the first resurrected and was in fact resurrected by Jesus before Jesus died. The Bible does not say that Lazarus died again. In fact the Bible specifically states that every man is appointed to die only once. And some never taste death. Peter, resurrected a child from death after Jesus left. The first imortal spirits were stated in Genesis (I believe it was one of Seth's children who walked with God for 42 years and was taken up physically into Heaven). Then Elija was taken up into Heaven physically. These occured before the physical arrival of Jesus.

However, I do believe all of these events were orchestrated by a very busy and present Jesus. Jesus also stated that men who followed Him (accepted Him as savior), would do even greater things than He did, while He was on this Earth. ;)

v/r

Q
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So are you saying that lazarus is still alive then even now ?
 
Im going to stick to the subject Mee.

The scripture, in context is saying that Jesus is the SAME first and the Last as in Isa. 48:12. Who is the first and the last in Isa. 48:12? It is God. Who is Jesus?
 
Proph 1 said:
Im going to stick to the subject Mee.

The scripture, in context is saying that Jesus is the SAME first and the Last as in Isa. 48:12. Who is the first and the last in Isa. 48:12? It is God. Who is Jesus?
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I am sticking to the subject as well. Jesus said the same words in the new testament (when addressing himself), because He dare say them in the new testament, He must have been the one who said them in the old testament.

Or else He would be a sham. I don't think that is the case. And I don't think Mee is going to admit, or confirm that at all...

v/r

Q
 
i am going to stick to the subject also.

i do not believe that it was Jesus speaking in the OT. That was God speaking in the OT & God speaking through Jesus in the NT.

so now we have 3 different views.
 
But why wouldnt Mee relpy? If you are wrong, and begin to see it, would you let pride keep you from changing?


I sure would NOT!
 
i already see what you see & what all the others see...

MANY many years ago & i do not believe that way. never did. but you do not see what i see:) and have not ever seen what I see all the way through... i can assure you of that.
 
Bandit said:
i already see what you see & what all the others see...

MANY many years ago & i do not believe that way. never did. but you do not see what i see:) and have not ever seen what I see all the way through... i can assure you of that.
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I have no problem with that. I only point out that Jesus said "I Am Who Am", and "I Am the Alpha and Omega".

Again, pretty big boast for someone who is not God in the flesh (eh, so to speak). ;)
 
Quahom1 said:
I have no problem with that. I only point out that Jesus said "I Am Who Am", and "I Am the Alpha and Omega".

Again, pretty big boast for someone who is not God in the flesh (eh, so to speak). ;)
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God manifested in the flesh;)
 
Bandit said:
God manifested in the flesh;)
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Then by your own arguement you agree that the speaker in the OT was God before being manifested in the flesh? If so, then that speaker is none other than Jesus...because it was Jesus who spoke those very same words in the NT, in the first person singular I might add.

eh? :D

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Then by your own arguement you agree that the speaker in the OT was God before being manifested in the flesh? If so, then that speaker is none other than Jesus...because it was Jesus who spoke those very same words in the NT, in the first person singular I might add.

eh? :D

v/r

Q
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yes & i know what & how it was spoken.

it was God in the OT & God speaking through Jesus in the NT.:D however you want to put that together that is up to you.

i am not interested in debating it with you Q, especially not in a group discussion. I know what you believe, but you do not know what i believe all the way through. maybe someday we can talk about it in a one on one if you like,:) but i will not do it in a group discussion like this. actually i think it is easier to see it the way you do & is probably easier to stick with what you got.

i dont see it as a real profitable group discussion, as i can see from past threads, here & in other forums.

the only reason i jumped into this from the beginning (THE BEGINNING:) ) was to keep peace between the person who started it & for the person who it was being directed at. :)
 
Bandit said:
yes & i know what & how it was spoken.

it was God in the OT & God speaking through Jesus in the NT.:D however you want to put that together that is up to you.

i am not interested in debating it with you Q, especially not in a group discussion. I know what you believe, but you do not know what i believe all the way through. maybe someday we can talk about it in a one on one if you like,:) but i will not do it in a group discussion like this. actually i think it is easier to see it the way you do & is probably easier to stick with what you got.

i dont see it as a real profitable group discussion, as i can see from past threads, here & in other forums.

the only reason i jumped into this from the beginning (THE BEGINNING:) ) was to keep peace between the person who started it & for the person who it was being directed at. :)
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Yeah, I'm a simple mind. And Mee is tough as nails, but it's all good. No sweat. Look, speak your piece. We are all talking about our beliefs. What, you think I'm going to laugh at your ways? (ha, ha, ha,) ok I got that crap out of the way. Now what do you really think? ;)

Look at me, I'm not hiding behind Mary's skirts. If it that personal, PM is an option.

Of course, I think ideas should be brought forward...but that is me.

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
Yeah, I'm a simple mind. And Mee is tough as nails, but it's all good. No sweat. Look, speak your piece. We are all talking about our beliefs. What, you think I'm going to laugh at your ways? (ha, ha, ha,) ok I got that crap out of the way. Now what do you really think? ;)

Look at me, I'm not hiding behind Mary's skirts. If it that personal, PM is an option.

Of course, I think ideas should be brought forward...but that is me.

v/r

Q
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yah it is all good.

it is not personal & i am not hiding, but that thing:) is hiding.

i know you are different & you are not the type to force beliefs on others & no i dont think you are going to laugh at others. me either.
so we would make for a good discussion, but i will not do it in a group discussion because it only brings confusion. i only tap the line from time to time to see where others are standing with it.

as for what i think?

i think, it is deeper, deeper, deeper, DEEPER & a lot, lot, lot more to it than any doctrine on the market over the past 1700 years.

so you can shake me & shake me, but no oranges are going to fall off in this thread no matter how hard you shake. shake me again someday:)
 
Lol, You know as well as I do that one never shakes an Orange tree..
 
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