What if the Man of Sin is Here?

[Quahom1]

well the question is, have others taken on these pagan beliefs ?

so are you saying that the catholics are the only ones that have taken on pagan beliefs?

I believe that was the original question...and the anwer is that they are not pagan beliefs. They are scripturally sound and valid, just not followed by everyone. That does not mean others are in sin because they do not follow them, just that sometime in their particular faith's past, they chose to stop following them.

Again, the only thing that is important to Christians (the only thing that matters), is their acceptance of Jesus as savior (personal savior). Everything else is icing on the cake.

 

[mee]

Everything I explained is specifically backed by scripture. So unless the inference is that scripture is false, then the four points we're discussing must be correct and valid. If the arguement becomes that one misinterprets the scripture, then the other can be presumed to do the same. If the contention is that one set of scriptures are corrupt and the other's is incorrupt, then the question becomes which is which, and who has the authority to determine thus? If one decries their leadership or unitary concensus is the authority, and the other rebuffs that theirs is, then we are back to square one...this is what is called "diggin' in the weeds" or going around in circles.

the accurate knowledge makes a difference to our understanding of the scriptures for instance you mentioned 1 peter 3;19and implied that the spirits here mentioned were the spirits of human beings but according to the bible these spirits are the disobediant angels that rebelled against God .
1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6...............regarding Isaiah 14;9-11

What a powerful poetic image! It is as if the common grave of mankind were to wake up all those kings who preceded the Babylonian dynasty into death so that they can greet the newcomer

So astonishing is the fall of Babylon that the grave itself reacts: "Even Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in. At you it has awakened those impotent in death, all the goatlike leaders of the earth. It has made all the kings of the nations get up from their thrones. so accurate knowledge does make a difference. also 2 corinthians is not talking about the imortality of the human soul it is talking about the new imortal incoruptable spirit body

Though living on earth in a mortal, fleshly body, Christians who have the spirit as a token of coming heavenly life look forward to "a building from God," an immortal, incorruptible spirit body. (1 Corinthians 15:50-53) Like Paul, they can earnestly say: "We are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the [human] body and to make our home [in heaven] with the Lord."—2 Corinthians 5:8 so this is a new spirit body

Paul said that the hope common to anointed Christians was to inherit a heavenly dwelling. This would come about, not through some presumed immortality of the soul, but through a resurrection during Christ’s presence. (1 Corinthians 15:23, 42-44 so scripture is not wrong but inaccurate knowledge is.

 

[Quahom1]

the accurate knowledge makes a difference to our understanding of the scriptures for instance you mentioned 1 peter 3;19and implied that the spirits here mentioned were the spirits of human beings but according to the bible these spirits are the disobediant angels that rebelled against God .
1Pe 3:19; 2Pe 2:4; Jude 6...............regarding Isaiah 14;9-11

What a powerful poetic image! It is as if the common grave of mankind were to wake up all those kings who preceded the Babylonian dynasty into death so that they can greet the newcomer

So astonishing is the fall of Babylon that the grave itself reacts: "Even Sheol underneath has become agitated at you in order to meet you on coming in. At you it has awakened those impotent in death, all the goatlike leaders of the earth. It has made all the kings of the nations get up from their thrones. so accurate knowledge does make a difference. also 2 corinthians is not talking about the imortality of the human soul it is talking about the new imortal incoruptable spirit body

Though living on earth in a mortal, fleshly body, Christians who have the spirit as a token of coming heavenly life look forward to "a building from God," an immortal, incorruptible spirit body. (1 Corinthians 15:50-53) Like Paul, they can earnestly say: "We are of good courage and are well pleased rather to become absent from the [human] body and to make our home [in heaven] with the Lord."—2 Corinthians 5:8 so this is a new spirit body

Paul said that the hope common to anointed Christians was to inherit a heavenly dwelling. This would come about, not through some presumed immortality of the soul, but through a resurrection during Christ’s presence. (1 Corinthians 15:23, 42-44 so scripture is not wrong but inaccurate knowledge is.

Or one's interpretation of it.

My soul is immortal, and the Bible makes it quite clear. Jesus would not waste His time "preaching" to fallen angels that can never be redeemed. He went to redeem those (faithful humans) to Him who died before Him. They were eyeing Jesus with a steady gaze, when He approached them. As is promised in the OT, Jesus took them out of that place, and placed them in Heaven, or their place of true reward. He fulfilled the promises made by the OT prophets.

Going back to my original post, I find nothing contradictory with the passages and the concept of the soul being immortal.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar´ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment 2 peter 2;4

In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 1 peter 3;19

What​

​

was the objective of Jesus’ preaching "to the spirits in prison"?


​

At 1 Peter 3:19, 20, after describing Jesus’ resurrection to spirit life, the apostle says: "In this state also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed." Commenting on this text, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words says: "In I Pet. 3:19 the probable reference is, not to glad tidings (which there is no real evidence that Noah preached, nor is there evidence that the spirits of antediluvian people are actually ‘in prison’), but to the act of Christ after His resurrection in proclaiming His victory to fallen angelic spirits." (1981, Vol. 3, p. 201) As has been noted, ke·rys´so refers to a proclamation that may be not only of something good but also of something bad, as when Jonah proclaimed Nineveh’s coming destruction. The only imprisoned spirits referred to in the Scriptures are those angels of Noah’s day who were ‘delivered into pits of dense darkness’ (2Pe 2:4, 5) and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." (Jude 6) Therefore the preaching by the resurrected Jesus to such unrighteous angels could only have been a preaching of judgment. It may be noted that the book of Revelation transmitted in vision to John by Christ Jesus toward the close of the first century C.E. contains much about Satan the Devil and his demons as well as their ultimate destruction, hence, a preaching of judgment. (Re 12-20) Peter’s use of the past tense ("preached") indicates that such preaching had been done prior to the writing of his first letter.

 

[Quahom1]

Certainly if God did not hold back from punishing the angels that sinned, but, by throwing them into Tar´ta·rus, delivered them to pits of dense darkness to be reserved for judgment 2 peter 2;4
In this [state] also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, 1 peter 3;19

What​

​

was the objective of Jesus’ preaching "to the spirits in prison"?

At 1 Peter 3:19, 20, after describing Jesus’ resurrection to spirit life, the apostle says: "In this state also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed." Commenting on this text, Vine’s Expository Dictionary of Old and New Testament Words says: "In I Pet. 3:19 the probable reference is, not to glad tidings (which there is no real evidence that Noah preached, nor is there evidence that the spirits of antediluvian people are actually ‘in prison’), but to the act of Christ after His resurrection in proclaiming His victory to fallen angelic spirits." (1981, Vol. 3, p. 201) As has been noted, ke·rys´so refers to a proclamation that may be not only of something good but also of something bad, as when Jonah proclaimed Nineveh’s coming destruction. The only imprisoned spirits referred to in the Scriptures are those angels of Noah’s day who were ‘delivered into pits of dense darkness’ (2Pe 2:4, 5) and "reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day." (Jude 6) Therefore the preaching by the resurrected Jesus to such unrighteous angels could only have been a preaching of judgment. It may be noted that the book of Revelation transmitted in vision to John by Christ Jesus toward the close of the first century C.E. contains much about Satan the Devil and his demons as well as their ultimate destruction, hence, a preaching of judgment. (Re 12-20) Peter’s use of the past tense ("preached") indicates that such preaching had been done prior to the writing of his first letter.
​

A judge does not preach to the condemned. A judge sentences the condemned. Jesus was not judge at this time (He said so). Preaching to those who know they are condemned and will be given no quarter, is futility at work. If you are implying that Jesus went to "gloat" over the fallen ones, then Jesus would not be the savior we believe Him to be. Also it would be a bad example for us to follow (let alone observe).

Jesus went to notify the ones awaiting His return that He in fact returned (prophecy fulfilled). And He brought them out of that place...(prophecy fulfilled).

 

[mee]

you are right to say that jesus did not go to gloat ,he went to inform them that prophecy was fullfilled that is why they now know that they have a short period of time left before they are destroyed for ever and they shudder about this as well

On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time...rev 12;12

(Romans 16:20) For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.

They were debased, put under restraint and deprived of additional divine enlightenment. This situation is spoken of figuratively at Jude 6: "The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day."​

Thus these unfaithful angels were expelled from God’s family of loyal spirit creatures. Neither they nor their ruler, Satan, continued residing with Jehovah God in the manner that they had enjoyed as his obedient sons. Though having access to the heavenly realm, they were now outcasts.....but after the war in heaven they were out of the heavens for good and thrown down here.no wonder they shudder they know whats coming to them

You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder....james 2;19
The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture."—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

 

[Quahom1]

you are right to say that jesus did not go to gloat ,he went to inform them that prophecy was fullfilled that is why they now know that they have a short period of time left before they are destroyed for ever and they shudder about this as well

On this account be glad, YOU heavens and YOU who reside in them! Woe for the earth and for the sea, because the Devil has come down to YOU, having great anger, knowing he has a short period of time...rev 12;12

(Romans 16:20) For his part, the God who gives peace will crush Satan under YOUR feet shortly. May the undeserved kindness of our Lord Jesus be with YOU.

They were debased, put under restraint and deprived of additional divine enlightenment. This situation is spoken of figuratively at Jude 6: "The angels that did not keep their original position but forsook their own proper dwelling place he has reserved with eternal bonds under dense darkness for the judgment of the great day."​

Thus these unfaithful angels were expelled from God’s family of loyal spirit creatures. Neither they nor their ruler, Satan, continued residing with Jehovah God in the manner that they had enjoyed as his obedient sons. Though having access to the heavenly realm, they were now outcasts.....but after the war in heaven they were out of the heavens for good and thrown down here.no wonder they shudder they know whats coming to them

You believe there is one God, do you? You are doing quite well. And yet the demons believe and shudder....james 2;19
The belief that the soul continues its existence after the dissolution of the body is a matter of philosophical or theological speculation rather than of simple faith, and is accordingly nowhere expressly taught in Holy Scripture."—The Jewish Encyclopedia (1910), Vol. VI, p. 564.

Are you saying (no aggression here), that some of the fallen angels are in prison while others are free to roam the earth? I mean, Lucifer roams the earth like Lion, finding who he can tear to shreds. Demons roam the earth to and fro, disrupting who and what they can...

So why would some fallen angels be in prison while the rest of Lucifer's minoins be free?

Second, the Jewish encyclopedia is a bit limited, when it comes to the New Testement and Christian beliefs...don't you think? The Jewish people don't recognise Jesus. Hell, even the Muslims give Jesus more credit than the Jewish folk?!

Mee, please, you got to come up with something better. It smacks of contridiction, to the majority of Christian faith!

I'm sorry. "I'm from Missouri..."

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

i think it has a lot to do with the correct understanding about this word tatarus.the debased condition represented by tatarus should not beconfused with the abyss into which satan and his demons are eventuallyto be cast for the thousandyears of christs rule rev 20 1-3 the disabedient angelswere cast into tatarus in noahs day.1 peter 3;20but many years laterwe find themsaying to jesus not to order them to go away into the abyss luke8;26-31

The word "Tartarus" is also used in pre-Christian heathen mythologies. In Homer’s Iliad this mythological Tartarus is represented as an underground prison ‘as far below Hades as earth is below heaven.’ In it were imprisoned the lesser gods, Cronus and the other Titan spirits. the Tartarus of the Bible is not a place but a condition and, therefore, is not the same as this Tartarus of Greek mythology. However, it is worth noting that the mythological Tartarus was presented not as a place for humans but as a place for superhuman creatures. So, in that regard there is a similarity, since the Scriptural Tartarus is clearly not for the detention of human souls (compare Mt 11:23) but is only for wicked superhuman spirits who are rebels against God.​

The condition of utter debasement represented by Tartarus is a precursor of the abyssing that Satan and his demons are to experience prior to the start of the Thousand Year Reign of Christ. This, in turn, is to be followed after the end of the thousand years by their utter destruction in "the second death."—Mt 25:41; Re 20:1-3, 7-10, 14so it is a condition not a place .so before they were cast out of heaven for good they went to and fro, heaven and earth ,but now they are not allowed back in the heavens since the battle in heaven when he was cast down here
The dense darkness similarly is not literally a lack of light but results from their being cut off from illumination by God as renegades and outcasts from his family, with only a dark outlook as to their eternal destiny.

 

[Quahom1]

i think it has a lot to do with the correct understanding about this word tatarus.the debased condition represented by tatarus should not beconfused with the abyss into which satan and his demons are eventuallyto be cast for the thousandyears of christs rule rev 20 1-3 the disabedient angelswere cast into tatarus in noahs day.1 peter 3;20but many years laterwe find themsaying to jesus not to order them to go away into the abyss luke8;26-31

I'm afraid this flies in the face of Genesis. The Nephilim are the roaming demons. The fallen angels would need no preaching. Their request that they not be thrown into the abyss is mute. Jesus telling them prophecy was fulfilled is mute.

When they fell, their fate was sealed, and they knew it then and know it now. They had full knowledge of the Glory and purpose of God, yet the rejected it. Man's saving grace (besides Jesus), is that we did not and do not have full knowledge of the Glory and purpose of God. We are redeemable because of that ignorance ("Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do").

When you say that Jesus went to "preach" in Taturus to the spirits in prison...what is the Greek/Hebrew/Latin word being used in the context? That will clear things up on this issue in a NewYork second.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

I'm afraid this flies in the face of Genesis. The Nephilim are the roaming demons. The fallen angels would need no preaching. Their request that they not be thrown into the abyss is mute. Jesus telling them prophecy was fulfilled is mute.

When they fell, their fate was sealed, and they knew it then and know it now. They had full knowledge of the Glory and purpose of God, yet the rejected it. Man's saving grace (besides Jesus), is that we did not and do not have full knowledge of the Glory and purpose of God. We are redeemable because of that ignorance ("Forgive them Father, for they know not what they do").

When you say that Jesus went to "preach" in Taturus to the spirits in prison...what is the Greek/Hebrew/Latin word being used in the context? That will clear things up on this issue in a NewYork second.

v/r

Q

the nephilin died in the flood ,they were the offspring of the fallen angels.but the fallen angels went back to the heavens. and yes they did go to and fro heaven and earth ,but now since they were cast out of heaven for good they are here all the time, know wonder condtions are bad on the earth they have a great influence. i found this information about this word (preached ) at 1 peter 3;19in the footnote
Or, "heralded." Gr., e·ke´ry·xen; Lat., prae·di·ca´vit. Compare Da 5:29 ftn, "Heralded............

At that time Bel·shaz´zar commanded, and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they (heralded )concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom dan5;29..........so i would think it was a proclamation

Ke·rys´so, in general, means "proclaim" (good or bad news), as distinguished from eu·ag·ge·li´zo·mai, "declare good news." Noah was a preacher (or herald, ke´ryx) to the antediluvian world, warning them. (2Pe 2:5) Christ preached (like a herald) to the spirits in prison, but not the good news.—1Pe 3:18, 19

 

[Quahom1]

the nephilin died in the flood ,they were the offspring of the fallen angels.but the fallen angels went back to the heavens. and yes they did go to and fro heaven and earth ,but now since they were cast out of heaven for good they are here all the time, know wonder condtions are bad on the earth they have a great influence. i found this information about this word (preached ) at 1 peter 3;19in the footnote
Or, "heralded." Gr., e·ke´ry·xen; Lat., prae·di·ca´vit. Compare Da 5:29 ftn, "Heralded............

At that time Bel·shaz´zar commanded, and they clothed Daniel with purple, with a necklace of gold about his neck; and they (heralded )concerning him that he was to become the third ruler in the kingdom dan5;29..........so i would think it was a proclamation

Ke·rys´so, in general, means "proclaim" (good or bad news), as distinguished from eu·ag·ge·li´zo·mai, "declare good news." Noah was a preacher (or herald, ke´ryx) to the antediluvian world, warning them. (2Pe 2:5) Christ preached (like a herald) to the spirits in prison, but not the good news.—1Pe 3:18, 19

Easy dude. I think you're on to something...but you sure don't have all the answers. None of the translations have anything to do with the prisoners that Jesus went into hell/Sheol/hades for. Not one explains the fallen ones, or fallen angels, or Nephilim.

Christ went into Sheol/Hades what ever you want to call it, to notify the faithful that He is come!

Those are, the faithful that did not have the grace of Jesus to send them to heaven immediately upon their deaths. God the Father, remember, could not look upon sin. Jesus fixed that.

v/r

Q

 

[mee]

forgive my ignorance,but where does the bible say that jesus spoke to the faithful or have i missed it yes Jesus went into the grave when he died , but where does it say he spoke to any other dead people .

 

[Bandit]

i dont know that it says he actually spoke to anyone (but maybe), but his spirit went to the other spirits of the righteous seed to let them know they were free from the curse of death.



the body goes to the grave but the spirit goes to another place. i think some used to believe the spirit actually stayed with the body inside the tomb until Jesus came.

or so that is how i have been seeing it.

 

[mee]

To establish the identity of the "spirits in prison," we must first consider the setting in which reference is made to them. We read: "Even Christ died once for all time concerning sins, a righteous person for unrighteous ones, that he might lead you to God, he being put to death in the flesh, but being made alive in the spirit. In this state also he went his way and preached to the spirits in prison, who had once been disobedient when the patience of God was waiting in Noah’s days, while the ark was being constructed."—1 Pet. 3:18-20.


Since mention is made of Noah’s days, we must examine events of that time for clues as to the identity of the "spirits in prison." With the exception of Noah and his family, the human society was disobedient to God. Could it have been that the resurrected Jesus Christ preached to the spirits of those disobedient people? No. Why not? Because the Bible clearly shows that all conscious existence ends at death. For example, in Ecclesiastes we are told: "The living are conscious that they will die; but as for the dead, they are conscious of nothing at all, neither do they anymore have wages, because the remembrance of them has been forgotten. Also, their love and their hate and their jealousy have already perished, and they have no portion anymore to time indefinite in anything that has to be done under the sun."—Eccl. 9:5, 6.

Furthermore, there is no difference between the spirit or life force animating animals and that animating humans. Ecclesiastes 3:19 states: "There is an eventually as respects the sons of mankind and an eventuality as respects the beast, and they have the same eventuality. As the one dies, so the other dies; and they all have but one spirit."

​

Thus the Holy Scriptures rule out linking the "spirits in prison" with the people who perished during the global deluge. We must, therefore, look outside the human sphere for clues regarding the identity of these imprisoned spirits. The Bible book of Genesis enables us to do that. It tells us about what certain "sons of the true God" or angels did in the days of Noah

Gen. 6:1, 2, 4.

In view of their being in a debased condition on account of their unfaithfulness, these spirit persons would not have had opened up to them an opportunity for repentance through Jesus Christ. He did not die for any disobedient angels but exclusively for mankind. God’s Word says: "There is one God, and one mediator between God and men, a man, Christ Jesus, who gave himself a corresponding ransom for all." (1 Tim. 2:5, 6) "He [Jesus Christ] is really not assisting angels at all."—Heb. 2:16.​

Since the ransom benefits do not apply to disobedient angels, their situation is like that of spirit-anointed Christians who forsake true worship, becoming apostates. Regarding such individuals, Hebrews 6:4-6 states: "It is impossible as regards those who have once for all been enlightened, and who have tasted the heavenly free gift, and who have become partakers of holy spirit, and who have tasted the fine word of God and powers of the coming system of things, but who have fallen away, to revive them again to repentance." Surely, then, it would be just as impossible for willfully disobedient angelic sons of God to repent of their rebelliousness.

Accordingly, the resurrected Jesus Christ could only have proclaimed a message of condemnation to the disobedient angels. Shortly before his death on an execution stake, he told his disciples: "When that one [God’s spirit] arrives he will give the world convincing evidence concerning sin and concerning righteousness and concerning judgment: in the first place, concerning sin, because they are not exercising faith in me; then concerning righteousness, because I am going to the Father and you will behold me no longer; then concerning judgment, because the ruler of this world has been judged." (John 16:8-11) The ‘ruler of the world’ is also the ruler of the disobedient angels or demons. (Compare Revelation 12:7-9.) Hence, in harmony with the "convincing evidence" of God’s spirit, the resurrected Christ could proclaim a fully justified judgment against the "spirits in prison."

So the combined evidence of the Scriptures makes it plain that the "spirits in prison" are rebellious angels. They are not the spirits of dead humans, for the spirit in man is but an activating life force

 

[Bandit]

well i guess that is possible too since i dont believe in pergutory.

so it is possible that mans spirit gets zapped out of existance immediately & the good ones go to heaven...but that does not work either because death & hell & the unrighteous are still waiting to be judged at the white throne judgment...which comes after the 2nd coming of Jesus.

so...i gues Jesus set the devil & the bad angels free? instead of the prophets & righteous?

 

[mee]

well i guess that is possible too since i dont believe in pergutory.

so it is possible that mans spirit gets zapped out of existance immediately & the good ones go to heaven...but that does not work either because death & hell & the unrighteous are still waiting to be judged at the white throne judgment...which comes after the 2nd coming of Jesus.

so...i gues Jesus set the devil & the bad angels free? instead of the prophets & righteous?

well as far as i am concerned the bible does not teach that man posseses an immortal soul .so i think this is were a lot of confusion sets in . the resurection of those in Gods memory will be judged on how they live there lives from their resurrection .not on their past deeds before they died. and i believe that the resurrection will be on the earth , not in heaven.death is a condition and hell is the common grave of mankind, and they will be got rid of in the end.satan and his demons are on death row ,because of their unfaithfulness to the true God .so getting back to the thread about the man of lawlessness ,in away this composite man is also on death row because of its unfaithfulness

 

[Bandit]

well as far as i am concerned the bible does not teach that man posseses an immortal soul .so i think this is were a lot of confusion sets in . the resurection of those in Gods memory will be judged on how they live there lives from their resurrection .not on their past deeds before they died. and i believe that the resurrection will be on the earth , not in heaven.death is a condition and hell is the common grave of mankind, and they will be got rid of in the end.satan and his demons are on death row ,because of their unfaithfulness to the true God .so getting back to the thread about the man of lawlessness ,in away this composite man is also on death row because of its unfaithfulness

but how can the soul not be immortal if we are going to live forever on the earth with Jesus?? i dont think the soul is immortal either, not in the sense that it always existed. the only way i see that the soul of man is not immortal (after God makes it) is if God destroys it, the same way with the devil.
you know immortal, everlasting, eternal can also mean from a starting point that moves forward. right?


i know at the end there it says after 1000 years the 'dead' stand before God & are judged.
i think this means the dead (not alive unto/in Christ)

what about this::
rev. 21:8 But the fearful, and unbelieving, and the abominable, and murderers, and whoremongers, and sorcerers, and idolaters, and all liars, shall have their part in the lake which burneth with fire and brimstone: which is the second death.

it does not say that lies & murder face the second death but rather LIARS & MURDERERS go to the second death.
i think the man of sin/son of perdition also faces the second death right along with false prophet & the devil.. as in POOF be gone all the wicked people & spirits, never to cause any more problems for the good people.

the resurection of those in Gods memory will be judged on how they live there lives from their resurrection

this does not make sense at all to me. do you think only the flesh body gets resurrected?..can you explain please?

 

[mee]

some people believe that we have a shadowy thing that is inside of us ,and when we die it goes up to heaven ,some thing like a spirit creature .i do not believe the bible teaches this ,i believe the soul is me ,adam became a living soul,he wasnt given one he was one.the life-force is from God .when we die we go to dust the life force goes back to God it is only God that can give us everlasting life .and yes ,you are right those who spoil things on the earthwill get the second death of eternal destructionwhen John 5;28-29 speaks of the resurrection of the rightous and the unrightous, the rightous are resurrected to everlasting life but the unrightous will have the chance to live in line with the new scrolls .if they dont then its off to the second death for them .no hope of a resurrection after that one.yes ,i do believe that God can resurrect us again with a new body ,remember that we are in Gods memory he knows the formation of us, it is no big deal for him to resurrect us with the personality traits and memories of our past life .i also believe that when Jesus was resurrected on the earth God gave him a body and the disciples recognized him because of what he did.i think God will give us a body again

 

[Bandit]

some people believe that we have a shadowy thing that is inside of us ,and when we die it goes up to heaven ,some thing like a spirit creature .i do not believe the bible teaches this ,i believe the soul is me ,adam became a living soul,he wasnt given one he was one.the life-force is from God .when we die we go to dust the life force goes back to God it is only God that can give us everlasting life .

ok we agree on the second death part (except i am not sure what you mean by the scrolls & not sure i want to know).

huh. interesting. i have never heard that before in my life, except for atheist & such. (but i know you are not atheist)
i think when God breathed the breath of life man BECAME a living soul. i think that breath or mist is the soul/spirit. i think the bible talks a lot about the soul/spirit of man.

i believe the soul is ME also. i see mind/spirit as the same thing except i believe the soul/spirit has a substance. we just cannot register it in the physical realm. they can register the mind as in thoughts but not the soul as in a substance.
at least i have a shadowy thing inside me, maybe others dont. the sadowy thing moves inside of me, up & down & all around my body & i would like to get out of this body someday. i have heard some say they feel the shadowy thing is only attached to there head in the back of the neck & it never moves.

i am curious, just one more question here Mee. what do you think it was in the bible when it says Jesus gave up the ghost? at calvary. would not that be his soul/spirit that he gave up?
i think what you call life force, from God, i call soul or spirit (shadowy thing) of man, from God.

 

[Mindonfire]

this is kind of what i have thought too
he must be able to fool everyone & get there vote & all at the right moment.
OTH, how easy it will be for the said believers who are not watching the signs to cast the wrong lot.
In my belief, i see the body of Christ recognizing him & being few in numbers. i think we are in that falling away period.
Most likely all will be here for part of the reign. Before the vile comes out of his mouth & the others realize it, the church will be gone. so i am not worried about it, just watch, be sober & pray.
this is only my belief.

Good day
You are right they are few in number who have recognized him. The church isn't going anywhere for a while. They will be here on earth through it all, if they are not killed first.