Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and Dorje Shugden

For your info. Geshe Kelsang is no renegade. He has remained true to his root Guru , Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang. He is passing on the pure Kadampa lineage without adding anything. Just in a form suitable for westerners.

It is the Dalai Lama that is the breakaway.. he has shown disdain for his own lineage and has shown great disrespect to Trijang Rinpoche (who was his Junior Tutor and Root Guru. Kyabje Trijang Dorjechang was a firm practioner of Dorje Shugden and gave the Empowerment far and wide. HHDL has caused 10s of 1000s to break their heart commitments and lifetime vows. Geshe Kelsang has followed his Guru with total surrender and no matter how inconvenient or bad for his reputation he has continued to serve his Guru and fulfill his wishes with total Humility and integrity.

HHDL is not the incumbent Authority he is the King of tibet (in Exile) Geshe Kelsangs incumbent Authority is his Root Guru as it should be to HHDL.

p.s. It was the D. Shugden Oracle that facilitated HHDLs escape from Tibet.
p.p.s It was D. Shugden that warned the 13th Dalai Lama to forge links with more powerful countries but he (the 13th DL) was too proud and thought Tibet invincible due to all its protector dieties....
p.p.p.s. D.Shugden is not a 'Vengeful Diety' He is the Wrathful aspect of Manjushri and as a Buddha wouldnt want to hurt a fly.
N.B. I Love Dorje Shugden and I am not an NKT practitioner (I left some years ago and will always treasure what NKT and Geshe-la gave me.) DOrje Shugden is my dad. I wish HHDL would stop commiting so much hurtful speech. He has hurt so many people ..Strange for an emanation of Chenrezig!
 
Re: Kelsang Gyatso and Dorje Shugden

I am no fan of Kelsang Gyatso, nor shugden.

The founder of Geluk order, Je Tsongkhapa, gave the Geluks a Protector, whose name I forget, but it was not shugden, who came along 200? years later.

If one is really devoted to Je Rinpoche, then practice with the Protector he gave.
 
Re: Kelsang Gyatso and Dorje Shugden

Skull said:
I am no fan of Kelsang Gyatso, nor shugden.

The founder of Geluk order, Je Tsongkhapa, gave the Geluks a Protector, whose name I forget, but it was not shugden, who came along 200? years later.

If one is really devoted to Je Rinpoche, then practice with the Protector he gave.
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Je Tsongkhapa has not even mentioned Shugden.

Dorje Shugden appeared at the time of the fifth Dalai Lama as a vengeful spirit. The whole issue is mainly bound to sectarianism, elitism and power politics within the Gelug school of Tibetan Buddhism. The sectarianism of Kelsang Gyatso stands out.

The protector bound by Je Tsongkhapa is Kalarupa. The protectors of his school are Mahakala, Vaisravana and Kalarupa.
 
Re: PS from BDCHITA--Re: Geshe Kelsang Gyatso and Dorje Shugden

bdchit said:

Have you studied with Geshe Kelsang Gyatso, that you say this? Or have you simply been listening to detractors? He's not doing that at all. He is totally devoted to his spiritual guide--Trijang Rinpoche-- and he constantly adjures his students to rely on one's spiritual guide..
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The main teacher of Kelsang Gyatso is Geshe Lhundup Sopa.
Kelsang Gyatso didn't receive all the teachings from Trijang Rinpoche. He might have received some empowerments and some teachings from Trijang Rinpoche. But if you study in the monasteries you have other teachers than Trijang Rinpoche. He can chose him as his root guru nevertheless. But most of the teachings Kelsang Gyatso received from other lamas, and his main lama is Geshe Lhundup Sopa. When Kelsang Gyatso came to the West, he even went to USA to visit him and to serve him. Since decades he has no contact to him any more, doesn't mention him and gives the impression he would be the heir of Trijang Rinpoche (which I think he is not, there are other lamas who are his heir).

bdchit said:
On the contrary, Geshela stresses Guru Yoga constantly. Where are you getting your information about his teachings?
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This is true. I would say he overstresses it and its a type of blind devotion what he stresses. The mantra in NKT is "Geshe-la says". NKT teachers are even critisized if the don't say often enough "Geshe-la says". He explains in his commentary on Guru devotion:
“Experience shows that realizations come from deep, unchanging faith, and that this faith comes as a result of following one tradition purely - relying upon one Teacher, practising only his teachings, and following his Dharma Protector. If we mix traditions many obstacles arise and it takes a long time for us to attain realizations.” (Kelsang Gyatso: Great Treasury of Merit: A Commentary to the Practice of Offering to the Spiritual Guide, 1992, p. 31)​
bdchit said:

You are right. The NKT traces an unbroken lineage back to Je Tsonghkhapa, further back to Atisha, and further back to Buddha Shakyamuni.
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True, as the other Tibetan lineages do too. The difference is that NKT is unable to keep the lineage of Je Tsongkhapa and has kicked out already many lineages, e.g. Vinaya, Kalachakra etc. Not any volume of the 18 volumes of the works of Je Tsongkhapa and not even his master piece Lam Rim Chen Mo is transmitted or being taught in NKT – except two brief texts: The Three Principles of the Path of two pages and a Lamrim overview of 1 page. NKT is all in all a selection of some teachings of the gelug school.


bdchit said:

By "the higher authority" do you mean the DL? He is not my, or Geshe Kelsang's, higher authority. Geshela was sent to England by Trijang Rinpoche to teach dhrama to Westerners.
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This is quite likely one of the many made-up stories within NKT in which NKT followers so blindly believe in. Most new NKT people have just NO awareness about the controversial history of NKT which is rooted in split and schism. Academic research says that Kelsang Gyatso was invited by Lama Yeshe and Lama Zopa Rinpoche and that they asked the Dalai Lama before they invited Kelsang Gyatso as a second teacher (for a basic programme, the other teacher was invited for a Geshe study programme) to their Manjushri Centre. Academic research also says that NKT is making up stories to fit events as suited:
Leaderships exclude memories by expelling individual malcontents or by simply not referring to unwelcome historical facts until they ‘cease to be part of the group repertoire of memories’. Changing the name of the leader or group also allows memories associated with previous designations to fade whilst promoting the creation of new memories. The project of deliberately excluding histories, however, is not always completely successful because repressed memories ‘can return to haunt the margins of a discourse and continue, despite their apparent absence, to influence its structure’. Alternatively, competing versions of events may only become temporarily submerged within the dominant account and may later ‘rise again to the surface of the collective memory’.

​
The NKT is a religious movement in which the dynamics of history construction, as outlined by Coney, are well exemplified. Multiple ‘histories’ exist on an individual and public group level both inside and outside the movement. As the pre-history of the group is rooted in conflict and schism the social organisation of memory and forgetfulness especially the group’s leadership is particularly striking. Accounts of current and former members either reinforce or contradict and compete with each other. They diverge widely over points of historical detail and often interpret the same events and processes in very different ways, reflecting a wide range of personal experience, depth of involvement, bias, opinion and loyalty. At the level of public discourse, the history and identity of the NKT has also, during the course of its development, undergone considerable realignment. Of course, such revision and reconfiguration of the past is commonplace within religious movements that are more concerned with issues of identity and ideology than with notions of historical veracity.« (Kay 2004 : 82)​
 
Hi!
Just signed up to write about my experience with the New Kadampa Buddhism, Geshe' Kelsang Gyatso.

I don't know anything about Buddhism and this might offend those who do? all can tell you is that I was in desperate need for peace and while searching for "meditation" I found Kadampa Centers, I didn't know what they were about and at first I was intimidated by another religion. But I was immediately welcomed! NEVER have they tried to push me into becoming a Buddhist, I was told that this type of teachings are for everyone and they can be included in our daily lives. The Kadampa teachings on the mind, love, compassion and meditation changed my life.

I am not sure about the controversy but I can attest that Geshe' Kelsang Gyatso had done SO MUCH in the western world (USA) to bring peace into people's lives by not restricting them with religion expectations and opening meditation centers that welcome everyone.

All I have experienced in a Kadampa center is a free, open, welcome atmosphere that allows us to meditate and listen to the teachings that I feel can be applied in anyone's life. I do know for sure that his intention is not bad, it can't be when he has helped so many westerners and people from other religions include meditation for a better life.
 
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