The Great Falling Away...

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Chalice

I am the Grail
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There is a passage in the New Testament that speaks of the "Great Falling Away" before Christ returns. I was always taught that evil people and sinners will "fall away" from belief in Christ at this time, but I have seen so much sin in my local church (5 years of adultery by the ministery, who was paid by me, and others), that I am very put off by it, and have not been back, even though I attended there since 1990. I know of other local churches with similar problems. I feel I have "fallen away" from their sin and hippocracy, but not from Christ. Does anyone else think that the "Great Falling away" will be the genuine believer who is sick of the false hippocrite believers that sit proudly in the Church pews?
 
i think it is a falling away from morality. falling away from the scriptures & implementing other beliefs in there place. falling away from our first love, Jesus.

fortunatley for me, what you have mentioned about the ministry has never been a problem in my church within the leadership. i am suprized it has not been a problem because it certainly is in most religions..scandals, lies, you name it.
i have done my share of 'falling away' as in sin, but have never left my first love in Jesus.
i think finding a good church home is very hard for people today- which is another reason people will fall away. they have no one they can fully trust, so they are left on there own for direction.

i suppose you could see it that way Chalice, falling away as in not going because it is that messed up. I am only responding to this because I feel we are in the beginning of this falling away & it has been heavy on my heart for a few months. I was talking with my mom & dad about this. we all came to figure that most of the church has already been called home through the ages...so what we may be looking at real soon is the remnant. for all i know, we could be that remnant.
i say this because the way things are headed, i dont see how there can be very many left in 30 years from now still holding on to what was first delivered.
we may be looking at something very different I am afraid.
if we keep our eyes foucused on Jesus, & our faith, love & foundation in & on him, we can't fall away.:)
 
Does anyone else think that the "Great Falling away" will be the genuine believer who is sick of the false hippocrite believers that sit proudly in the Church pews?

Absolutely not, Chalice, and I beg you to reconsider. The logic of this is faulty.

The 'sin' is not the fault of the church, it is the fault of the sinner, brought into the church. So why should you allow the actions of a sinner to separate you from God?

In the Catholic liturgy there is a line that says "look not on our sins, but on the faith of your church," but if I choose to judge those alongside me in the pews, then I choose to look on their sin, so why should God not look on mine?

From the Garden of the Desert Fathers:
'A brother asked abba Poemen, "If I see my brother sin, is it right to say nothing about it?" The old man replied, "whenever we cover our brother's sin, God will cover ours; whenever we tell people about our brother's guilt, God will do the same about ours."

A brother in Scetis committed a fault. A council was called to which abba Moses was invited, but he refused to go to it. Then the priest sent someone to him, saying, "Come, for everyone is waiting for you". So he got up and went. He took a leaking jug and filled it with water and carried it with him. The others came out to meet him and said, " what is this, father?" The old man said to them, "My sins run out behind me, and I do not see them, and today I am coming to judge the errors of another." When they heard that, they said no more to the brother but forgave him.

+++

Loving God is the easy bit - the reality of loving one's neighbour is something else altogether.

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
Does anyone else think that the "Great Falling away" will be the genuine believer who is sick of the false hippocrite believers that sit proudly in the Church pews?

Absolutely not, Chalice, and I beg you to reconsider. The logic of this is faulty.

The 'sin' is not the fault of the church, it is the fault of the sinner, brought into the church. So why should you allow the actions of a sinner to separate you from God?
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I agree and disagree. I agree that the faults of individuals in any position aught not be reflected on the religion itself. However the "Great Falling away" could be something substantially attached to the body of the church, and when the spirit has left it to some degree, sins will find fewer chances of remedy, and hang around.

The thing I propose for consideration could be called a Covenant. A covenant binds a group together, and to a Cause or Way. However respectful of diversity such a Cause or Way must be, it cannot be considered still sound and whole if participants of the bound group are, for example, literally at war with eachother. Such a war is a result of an estrangement born at the point of irreconsilable division; sedition. Such is certainly the case in many religions today. The scriptures speak of the virtues and values necessary to be of a soundly based group but today most religions are so divided that many suppose the virtue of the scripture is best found aside from any group - they who seek spirituality rather than religion, for example.
 
You are right - loving others is the hard part. I can't quite square away the covering over of other's sins, because those sins hurt so many, and once gotten away with, the sinner will sin more, and hurt others more. But I get the point. I just really feel that the "falling" away is going on, and alot of good people are leaving traditional christianity to join pseudo-christian cults, and leave the faith altogether. My parents church recently printed a research poll about the fastest growing religions, from US News. It said Wicca is now the fastest growing faith in the USA, followed by Mormonism, which WAS the fastest growing faith just 2 years ago, and the fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. Why do people join these faiths? Because they sit in traditional churches and the ministers take for granted that they understand things like the trinity, Christ's deity, the facts about his crucifixion/resurrection, and the ability to perform miracles (some call it magick). No one ever discusses pre-christian religions with us, and explains why they are wrong. Christianity just "ignores" us, and expects us to go along with everything. The other religions, eager to gain converts, take extra time to explain, and win converts easily from an unschooled group. Yes Christianity holds "classes", but they remain on the 2nd grade level, and in a college level society, this is not good enough anymore. Hence people who desire more spirituality, more understanding about God, and want to be near Him, leave for what appears to be better, and offers more. Couple these things with the facts that Christian clergy the world over commit very harmful, public sins, and you have yourself a stray flock.
 
Chalice said:
You are right - loving others is the hard part. I can't quite square away the covering over of other's sins, because those sins hurt so many, and once gotten away with, the sinner will sin more, and hurt others more. But I get the point. I just really feel that the "falling" away is going on, and alot of good people are leaving traditional christianity to join pseudo-christian cults, and leave the faith altogether. My parents church recently printed a research poll about the fastest growing religions, from US News. It said Wicca is now the fastest growing faith in the USA, followed by Mormonism, which WAS the fastest growing faith just 2 years ago, and the fastest growing religion in the world is Islam. Why do people join these faiths? Because they sit in traditional churches and the ministers take for granted that they understand things like the trinity, Christ's deity, the facts about his crucifixion/resurrection, and the ability to perform miracles (some call it magick). No one ever discusses pre-christian religions with us, and explains why they are wrong. Christianity just "ignores" us, and expects us to go along with everything. The other religions, eager to gain converts, take extra time to explain, and win converts easily from an unschooled group. Yes Christianity holds "classes", but they remain on the 2nd grade level, and in a college level society, this is not good enough anymore. Hence people who desire more spirituality, more understanding about God, and want to be near Him, leave for what appears to be better, and offers more. Couple these things with the facts that Christian clergy the world over commit very harmful, public sins, and you have yourself a stray flock.
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well, i did not come up in a church like that & it is still not like that, but i think a lot of them are exactly what you are getting at & trying to say. & i have to agree with most of what you are saying. You are not the only one who feels pain from all the holy doodoo out there.
BUT, like i said b4, KEEP YOUR EYES ON JESUS & IN THE BIBLE, and you wont fall away.:)
 
I have to agree you keep reading and seeing on the news how Christianity is declining and the ones who claim it, only cliam it. Ive also watched churches once full of principles, take on new phsycologies, philosophies, and turn political rather than to God. Its both scary, and exciting. Exciting meaning that soon things will get Beter then beter, but unfortunatly it will get much worse before it gets beter.

I too am looking for a local body to attend, but the ones I like are very far away. The onse close I like dont have anything for my kids. Not to mention the other option which is to go and do the home church thing with other believers.
 
What causes this 'Great Falling Away' but the gravity of the world?

Do we believe Christ has 'fallen away' from his love for us?

I do not see how falling away from God can bring anyone closer to God, no matter how much one might try to disguise the fact, or delude oneself.

If one is a Christian, and if one believes in the Mystery of the Sacraments, then there is no other way - for no matter how much some other form might appeal, it cannot enact the Sacraments in any real sense.

The Real Presence is by, through, in and with the Church, not outside it.

Unless, of course, Christ has already 'fallen away' in his love for us, in which case...

Thomas
 
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