How Come Christians Do Not Follow The Violent Verses?

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Silverbackman

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I just don't get it but why is that many Christians complain that Islam has a verse that says that they must slit the throat of any non-muslim, when in fact Christianity has a few violent verses of their own? It says in Leviticus or Deuteronomy (one of the two) says that you must put any adulterers, homosexuals, or anyone else that is not your God to death. In other words it is telling you to go out and kill these people. Christians do not do this, and yet they justify that to say that their religion is any better than Islam. When in fact the only difference here is that Christians may pick and choose what to follow, while muslims follow their religion literally.

I have heard that Christians do not have to follow the laws of the first 5 books anymore or something but if that is the case how come a [font=&quot]fundamental Baptist [/font] pastor that I talked to the other day said that we must and should follow the first 5 books. That would mean that these violent verses are still valid, and yet no muslims does any of these things. Why?

Someone explain.
 
The Old Testament is very violent, but the New Testament has a message of non-violence.
Mt 5.39: "If someone strikes you on the right cheek, turn to him the other also"
Mt 5.44: "Love your enemies"
 
I wouldn't say Christians as a whole pick and choose what they follow just like I wouldn't say all Muslims follow the religion literally.

The 1st 5 books of the Bible aka The Books of Moses, The Pentateuch, The Torah, The Law. Should we follow them. Yes and No.

Jesus came to fulfil the Old Covenant. The Law still should be followed to an extent, the Moral laws should always be followed. The civil laws given to ancient Israel do not pertain to Christians today.
 
As for getting inspiration from the violent verses, you may recall...The American Indian, The Congo, Rampant Imperialism of the 18 & 19th Century, The Crusades, The American Slave trade, and the many horrors in which christian nations did not intervene due to lack of interest (ie, no religious or economic value) such as the first half of WW2 and the unjustifiable rejection of Jews attempting to flee to America. The moral high ground from which christians shot their arrows and guns was the Bible, which somehow convicted them of unquestionable superiority.

Time and again, when anyone demonstrates biblical inspiration for violence (eg, Pat Robertson), the result is nothing less than crimes against God and humanity. This continues within the ranks of christian fundamentalists, the pro-white movement, and the Christian Coalition (created by Pat Robertson).
 
All, the problem is that you guys say there are some things that need to be followed and some that don't. What are theses things? Keep in mind you can't pick and choose, show me proof from non-violent new testament that shows you shouldn't follow the old testament. The fundie pastor I talked told me that Christians must follow ALL of the old testament. I doubt a fundie would know less about this stuff, unless he missed a verse. Tell me what verse in the new testament says you cannot follow the book of law.
 
How about this:

Christ is the end of the law so that there may be righteousness for everyone who believes. (Romans 10:4, NIV)
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Found another:

For he himself is our peace, who has made the two one and has destroyed the barrier, the dividing wall of hositility, by abolishing in his flesh the law with its commandments and regulations. (Ehpesians 2:14-15, NIV)
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peace,
lunamoth
 
How about:

Gal 3:24 Wherefore the law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith. 25 But after that faith is come, we are no longer under a schoolmaster.

also
Rom 6:14 For sin shall not have dominion over you: for ye are not under the law, but under grace.

Rom 7:6 But now we are delivered from the law, that being dead wherein we were held; that we should serve in newness of spirit, and not in the oldness of the letter.

Rom 8:2 For the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus hath made me free from the law of sin and death. :3 For what the law could not do, in that it was weak through the flesh, God sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh, and for sin, condemned sin in the flesh: :4 That the righteousness of the law might be fulfilled in us, who walk not after the flesh, but after the Spirit.
 
Silverbackman said:
All, the problem is that you guys say there are some things that need to be followed and some that don't. What are theses things? Keep in mind you can't pick and choose, show me proof from non-violent new testament that shows you shouldn't follow the old testament. The fundie pastor I talked told me that Christians must follow ALL of the old testament. I doubt a fundie would know less about this stuff, unless he missed a verse. Tell me what verse in the new testament says you cannot follow the book of law.
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Editing
 
Silverbackman said:
All, the problem is that you guys say there are some things that need to be followed and some that don't. What are theses things? Keep in mind you can't pick and choose, show me proof from non-violent new testament that shows you shouldn't follow the old testament. The fundie pastor I talked told me that Christians must follow ALL of the old testament. I doubt a fundie would know less about this stuff, unless he missed a verse. Tell me what verse in the new testament says you cannot follow the book of law.
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There is no such verse. The problem with your query is that man's (often violent) nature taints scriptural interpretation in every religion.

Furthermore, every Christian picks and chooses from the Bible, and the Old Testament most of all. Some will say that Christ is the fulfillment of the law, but does that mean God supports murder and lying, now? Of course not. You are likely to get responses based on the idea that Christ's words of love and non-violence override anything said before Him. But it's important to understand that this is a matter of faith. All scriptural interpretation is a matter of faith. And those without a strong relationship with God are unlikely to navigate His intentions very accurately. Fundamentalists are no different in this regard. You can know all the words and never understand their intent.

If you're looking for a scriptural proof of non-violence in the Bible you will first have to seek God's wisdom and not your own (or mine). A set of historical documents and letters is no substitute for a relationship with God. The verse you are looking for remains in your heart.
 
lol I have met many "fundie pastors" that I do not believe speak for God. Just because someone is a pastor of some church does not mean he has the authority to speak for God or that he has the Holy Spirit... or that he automatically knows what the bible means.

I can just imagine this pastor friend of yours preaching hellfire and damnation while standing at the pulpit shouting at all the sinners in the pews... Sorry not my cup of tea.
 
as with the teachings of christ, christians are not here to judge, but to help save others from a second death and to love them as he loved us.
 
That is one of the problems with Christianity, all Christians believe many different things, it is no wonder there are over 100,000 sects of Christianity:rolleyes:.

The problem is that it differs from christian to christian, I know many christians that say the old testament is still very valid of course I should point out these verses some time to them;).
 
Silverbackman said:
That is one of the problems with Christianity, all Christians believe many different things, it is no wonder there are over 100,000 sects of Christianity:rolleyes:.

The problem is that it differs from christian to christian, I know many christians that say the old testament is still very valid of course I should point out these verses some time to them;).
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every religion & individual is that way. that is why there are 6 billion different beliefs in the world.
so what violent verses do you expect Christians to follow?
 
Thats the thing though.. Christianity is so diverse because they are followers of Christ.

Ive always been taught this.. that the OT and its laws was Gods way for preparing the world for Jesus Christ.. To show the impossibility of being good enough on our own merit.. To show that we needed a savior and that there was atonement that needed to be made.. Sin is essentially disobedience to God.. And like any father on earth they discipline their children when that child is disobedient because that child needs to learn that their father is trying to show them right from wrong. Christ is that atonement.. he was the whipping boy for us so that we didnt need to pay for our sins.. There is no more need for OT sacrifices.. Christ was the ultimate and final sacrifice. If we bind ourselves to the OT we are binding ourselves from everything that Christ came to do.. He came to free us. He came to show us that we are saved by grace and not by works.. The grace of God and not OT laws.
 
Silverbackman said:
When in fact the only difference here is that Christians may pick and choose what to follow, while muslims follow their religion literally.
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Does that statement mean you follow all the verses of Quran such as
24:2 Strike the adulteress and the adulterer one hundred times. Do not let compassion for them keep you from carrying out God’s law—if you believe in God and the Last Day—and ensure that a group of believers witnesses the punishment.
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
5:38 Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done—a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise.
5:33 Indeed, the punishment of those who fight Allah and His Messenger and who go around corrupting the land is to be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or to be banished from the land. That is a disgrace for them in this life, and in the life to come theirs will be a terrible punishment.

Just a few examples most muslims I know do not do today!
 
Faithfulservant said:
Thats the thing though.. Christianity is so diverse because they are followers of Christ.

Ive always been taught this.. that the OT and its laws was Gods way for preparing the world for Jesus Christ.. To show the impossibility of being good enough on our own merit.. To show that we needed a savior and that there was atonement that needed to be made.. Sin is essentially disobedience to God.. And like any father on earth they discipline their children when that child is disobedient because that child needs to learn that their father is trying to show them right from wrong. Christ is that atonement.. he was the whipping boy for us so that we didnt need to pay for our sins.. There is no more need for OT sacrifices.. Christ was the ultimate and final sacrifice. If we bind ourselves to the OT we are binding ourselves from everything that Christ came to do.. He came to free us. He came to show us that we are saved by grace and not by works.. The grace of God and not OT laws.
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This is a common misunderstanding, in my opinion. Yes, the need for sacrifices ended. But there is a bigger matter involved than any of this.

When Christ died, the veil to the Holy of Holies was supernaturally torn. This was not merely a divine attempt to dramatize the moment. The main point of Jesus was to remove the intermediary role of the priesthood. Man was no longer required to look to earthly mediation with God -- was no longer required to follow their rules and declarations. Just as importantly, he is also no longer protected by doing so!

This is WHY sacrifices were no longer required. The priesthood had lost its authority over man, and their administration of sacrifices, etc. was obsolete. Because man could now commune directly with the Creator, and answer directly to Him. Conscience, conviction, love -- things that could not be faked or regulated by anyone -- these were the regulators of one's spiritual state.

Yes, Christ freed us from the requirements doled out by men. He freed us from conformism. Freed us from the idea that we were not individually worthy of God's time and attention. Freed us to work out our own salvation humbly before Him. But the story of Jesus is not simply a dismissal of the Old Testament or its values. On the contrary, evil remains evil and good remains good. We are still to avoid one and persue the other. The difference is that Christ showed us how to do this with passionate conviction instead of the reluctant or vain conformity that was encouraged while under the priesthood's abuse of the divine authority granted them.

In my humble opinion, the constant reiteration that "mankind is no longer under the law, because Christ fulfilled it all" misses the point, and can become something of a distraction away from the many vital aspects of Christ's sacrifice.
 
Dor said:
Does that statement mean you follow all the verses of Quran such as
24:2 Strike the adulteress and the adulterer one hundred times. Do not let compassion for them keep you from carrying out God’s law—if you believe in God and the Last Day—and ensure that a group of believers witnesses the punishment.
4:34 Men are in charge of women, because Allah hath made the one of them to excel the other, and because they spend of their property (for the support of women). So good women are the obedient, guarding in secret that which Allah hath guarded. As for those from whom ye fear rebellion, admonish them and banish them to beds apart, and scourge them. Then if they obey you, seek not a way against them. Lo! Allah is ever High, Exalted, Great.
5:38 Cut off the hands of thieves, whether they are male or female, as punishment for what they have done—a deterrent from God: God is almighty and wise.
5:33 Indeed, the punishment of those who fight Allah and His Messenger and who go around corrupting the land is to be killed, crucified, have their hands and feet cut off on opposite sides, or to be banished from the land. That is a disgrace for them in this life, and in the life to come theirs will be a terrible punishment.

Just a few examples most muslims I know do not do today!
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Yea, but the Bible has many violent verses such as you must kill anyone that does not follow your God, Kill adulterers, Kill homosexuals, ect. in the first 5 books Of course as someone here mentioned Jesus said you don't even have to follow the law anymore, however many Christians still do. What I don't get is that they will follow some verses of the first 5 books but not these violent verses. What difference does it make if muslims do those things? I think in general Christians have done even more harm in the past to people in the name of religion *cough cough* The Spanish *cough cough* the British.

There was one religion though that Christian colonials could not destroy;). They managed to convert all the natives in the Americas, all the Africans they came in contact with, and any Chinese that they got in control of in Northern China. However they could not destroy hinduism:p, thankfully;).
 
Silverbackman said:
Yea, but the Bible has many violent verses such as you must kill anyone that does not follow your God, Kill adulterers, Kill homosexuals, ect. in the first 5 books Of course as someone here mentioned Jesus said you don't even have to follow the law anymore, however many Christians still do. What I don't get is that they will follow some verses of the first 5 books but not these violent verses. What difference does it make if muslims do those things? I think in general Christians have done even more harm in the past to people in the name of religion *cough cough* The Spanish *cough cough* the British.

There was one religion though that Christian colonials could not destroy;). They managed to convert all the natives in the Americas, all the Africans they came in contact with, and any Chinese that they got in control of in Northern China. However they could not destroy hinduism:p, thankfully;).
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You are a troll. Go away.
 
Silverbackman said:
I think in general Christians have done even more harm in the past to people in the name of religion *cough cough* The Spanish *cough cough* the British.
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The key word there is Christians...if you ask most Christians the atrocities done in the name of Christ were not by true Christians just men who called themselves Christian. As Christ himself said:
Mat 7:22Many will say to me in that day, Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in thy name and in thy name have cast out devils? and in thy name done many wonderful works? :23And then will I profess unto them, I never knew you: depart from me, ye that work iniquity.

I am not about to say some so-called "Christians" have done much harm to people and to Christianity itself. They by no means are alone in that aspect I can think of one of the top of my head where the "leader" not only tells his people to kill non believers but also did it himself. That is one thing Christians can say some people have done terrible things in the name of Christ but Jesus never told them to and he never set an example for them too.

 
I believe bad things happen but I believe God makes good things come from the bad.. I believe that God allows the bad so He can work the good for His will. It goes along with acts done by Christians.. we can never know what God had planned and how it might have affected things.. Satan only has so much control over things.. ultimately God wins forever.


BTW Matt nice post. We should never trivialize what Christ did for us.

I look at this thread as another means to criticize Christianity.. Christ said that the world hated Him first.. and everytime I see criticism and scoffing I praise the Lord because the day will come when the world will bow down before Him and pronounce Him King. :)
 
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