What About Rama?

[prajapati]

You sure about Jesus being in category 2? Many people think he is the son of God and God as well. We can't say these people are wrong unless there is hard proof but there really isn't. Also Jesus never got any messages from God directly on Earth, so you know.

So you put Krishna, Raam, and Buddha in option number 1, right?

prophets and avatars are not the same thing at all.

 

[arthra]

Prophets, Avataras and Manifestations...

prophets and avatars are not the same thing at all.

We Baha'is would probably say there's a "middle ground" between the concepts of Avatara and Prophets...

An Avatar is sent to the world when mankind is in greatest need:

"Whenever there is a decine of dharma O Bharata and rise of adharma I incarnate Myself"

Similarly a Prophet appears when man is in desparate straights...

The Manifestations of God we believe do this... They are from their inception pure burnished Mirrors that reflect the Divine Attributes.

To quote Baha'u'llah:

These sanctified Mirrors, these Day Springs of ancient glory, are, one and all, the Exponents on earth of Him Who is the central Orb of the universe, its Essence and ultimate Purpose. From Him proceed their knowledge and power; from Him is derived their sovereignty. The beauty of their countenance is but a reflection of His image, and their revelation a sign of His deathless glory. They are the Treasuries of Divine knowledge, and the Repositories of celestial wisdom. Through them is transmitted a grace that is infinite, and by them is revealed the Light that can never fade   These Tabernacles of Holiness, these Primal Mirrors which reflect the light of unfading glory, are but expressions of Him Who is the Invisible of the Invisibles. By the revelation of these Gems of Divine virtue all the names and attributes of God, such as knowledge and power, sovereignty and dominion, mercy and wisdom, glory, bounty, and grace, are made manifest.

The above is from an article:

http://bahai-library.com/books/gandhi/node21.html

In friendship,

- Art

 

[Silverbackman]

Re: Prophets, Avataras and Manifestations...

prophets and avatars are not the same thing at all.

And your point is?

We Baha'is would probably say there's a "middle ground" between the concepts of Avatara and Prophets...

An Avatar is sent to the world when mankind is in greatest need:

"Whenever there is a decine of dharma O Bharata and rise of adharma I incarnate Myself"

Similarly a Prophet appears when man is in desparate straights...

The Manifestations of God we believe do this... They are from their inception pure burnished Mirrors that reflect the Divine Attributes.

To quote Baha'u'llah:

These sanctified Mirrors, these Day Springs of ancient glory, are, one and all, the Exponents on earth of Him Who is the central Orb of the universe, its Essence and ultimate Purpose. From Him proceed their knowledge and power; from Him is derived their sovereignty. The beauty of their countenance is but a reflection of His image, and their revelation a sign of His deathless glory. They are the Treasuries of Divine knowledge, and the Repositories of celestial wisdom. Through them is transmitted a grace that is infinite, and by them is revealed the Light that can never fade These Tabernacles of Holiness, these Primal Mirrors which reflect the light of unfading glory, are but expressions of Him Who is the Invisible of the Invisibles. By the revelation of these Gems of Divine virtue all the names and attributes of God, such as knowledge and power, sovereignty and dominion, mercy and wisdom, glory, bounty, and grace, are made manifest.

The above is from an article:

http://bahai-library.com/books/gandhi/node21.html

In friendship,

- Art

Hmmm that is an interesting concept, I have never thought of the "inbetween" of an avatar and a prophet, except for maybe the idea of Buddha starting as a man and becoming a God.

But I do believe some "Manefestations" have more power and importance than others. For example Jesus I consider to be higher than Nanak or Moses, because many people consider him the son of God. So I can't equate a prophet and an avatar in the same category, because avatars clearly have more importance.

 

[prajapati]

Re: Prophets, Avataras and Manifestations...

And your point is?

that prophets and avatars are not the same thing

 

[arthra]

Silver wrote:

I do believe some "Manefestations" have more power and importance than others. For example Jesus I consider to be higher than Nanak or Moses, because many people consider him the son of God. So I can't equate a prophet and an avatar in the same category, because avatars clearly have more importance.

My comment:

For Baha'is the Manifestations of God are the same, that is they reflect the same Sun of Divine Truth. One could say they are the same. Just as you would not differentiate the Sun that shined on Monday from the Sun that shined on Thursday. It is the same Sun.

But there is also in our view a special mission that Each has for the time They arise in...

So Moses and Jesus are for us the same. They just had different missions and goals for times and places They lived in. Compare it to teachers in the same school... Your first grade teacher was as qualified as your sixth grade teacher. They both had to meet certain qualifications in order to teach. But their missions differed. They presented what you were capable of at a certain stage in your developement and your capacity increased over time.

This is true we believe with the developemnet and progress of mankind. That we have more capacity today than we did say at the time of Moses. Hence the Manifestations have nurtured humanity over time and worked toward establishing an ever advancing civilization:

"A process that occurs in the light of man's purpose which according to Baha'u'llah is to carry forward an ever advancing civilization, having evolved though the various units of social life, family, tribe, city-state and nation, mankind's present goal is the unity of nations a world superstate, the final step in man's social evolution. This goal is concomitant with his impending spiritual maturity."

- Shoghi Effendi