B
Bandit
Guest
Plaidback said:
because the bible is true & God will have His way whether you like it or not.
much truth!
because the bible is true & God will have His way whether you like it or not.
much truth!
I don't have many religious beliefs. That's what I said in my first post. I'm an agnostic. You're using a very narrow definition of the word reality. Someone who believes everything is God and someone who believes that the world is inherently dirty experience the world in very different ways. The same is true for smaller beliefs as well. Are you familiar with the poem, "I placed a jar in Tenessee"?
I'm not an Orthodox Jew, so you're barking up the wrong tree, and even among Orthodox Jews you're still barking up the wrong tree. I'm a Jewish Renewal Jew. Read here:
http://www.aleph.org/principles.html
Those are ideas that are closer to my thinking. I'm not bothering with the rest of your post as it was entirely off topic. If you want to learn some answers about Judaism instead of going by what you think you know, start asking questions in the Judaism part of this website because the information you got was either insufficiently delivered or insufficiently received.
Dauer
smkolins
Bahá'í
Plaidback said:
I don't believe humans have any access to raw, unvarnished reality. We interprit through our sense what they are allowed to share and our interpritation is highly dependent on our social situation and norms. Here's some quotes:
"Experiments reported in 1966 by Segall, Campbell and Herskovitz suggested that the Müller-Lyer illusion[where two equal length lines have arrows at the end making an illusion to some they are different lengths] may be absent or reduced amongst people who grow up in certain environments. They tested some Zulu people in South Africa who, at the time, lived in circular huts with arched doorways and had little experience of Western rectangular buildings. The Zulus seemed less affected by the Müller-Lyer illusion."
"Segall, Campbell and Herskovits (1966) found that people who lived in very open rural environments tended to be more subject to the horizontal-vertical illusion[where two equal lines are placed one veritcally on the other] than others."
"The anthropologist Colin Turnbull described what happened in the former Congo in the 1950s when a BaMbuti pygmy, used in living in the dense Ituri forest (which had only small clearings), went with him to the plains:
And then he saw the buffalo, still grazing lazily several miles away, far down below. He turned to me and said, 'What insects are those?'
At first I hardly understood, then I realized that in the forest vision is so limited that there is no great need to make an automatic allowance for distance when judging size. Out here in the plains, Kenge was looking for the first time over apparently unending miles of unfamiliar grasslands, with not a tree worth the name to give him any basis for comparison...
When I told Kenge that the insects were buffalo, he roared with laughter and told me not to tell such stupid lies. (Turnbull 1963, 217)"
While these are examples I do not think they fully define the problem. All the sense are colored by what we experience and do on an every day basis.
Logic and reason are also not capable of getting at raw unvarnished reality, otherwise we would have no need for theories, and conjecture. We would just perceive the truth.
Nor are miraculous experiences a key to raw reality experienced. Near death experiences are to be found in all cultures. Each person tends to see the religious Founder of their own Faith, especially if the norm of that region, as the Welcomer, or "Being of light" - here's one mostly looking at Jesus, but here's a Hindu, Muslim, American Indian, Buddhist, Jewish, and Baha'i... why I even see I, Brian had one ((btw, you may be interested to read a whole book from the Baha'i pov about such things)) - I don't believe these variations are pure cultural blindness and there is no Welcomer. I am alittle unsure Who is doing the welcoming - it could be each different person or one person appearing and seen as what the seer wishes. The point is that several such experiences appear incompatible and yet they are the same generally.
Awaiting_the_fifth
Where is my mind?
Plaidback said:
That may be true of some people, but i think that most peoples' belief is a way of seeking the truth that science cannot provide.
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Did I Lie ? Irony ?Popeyesays said:
Are you calling Situation that is going on forever between Jews in Israel and
their Neighbours "Super","Taking care of business" "Piece" or anything Nice,
I don't. This topic is "why do you believe", and I know that Life in Israel is
way less than Pleasent.
It would be sarcasm to say it is.
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I feel you, and completely understand where you" comming from ",Awaiting_the_fifth said:
All I was trying to say is that, as of right Now, One and only Reality in wich
you and me Live together, alow you to rely upon wisdom of Buddha and live and breath that wisdom, which is great, and make this world beautiful.
Me, in the other hand, I feel only what is Real, what exist, whatever is my
Experience. My experience tells me that Prophecies from Torah, in fact
became Reality, which only Prooves that Reality is ahead of Us too.
And if Physical Resurection or Reincarnation become part of that Reality,
I will Die, right now, I am alive, just like you, and that is the Truth.
And there is Only one truth, always was, and always will be.
much Time !
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I agree, you are right, and I don't want to " split hair " here.smkolins said:
Because we, as Species are limited with Time, we Live and Die,
Reality does Not. Now that's on Individual Level, but as Species (created upon God's Image, if you will ), we Indeed Survived and Progressed.
According to a Prophecy, some of Us will indeed cross over into Eternity, in
Flesh.
In order to Paint that, Raw, unvarnished Reality Picture, it is on you smkolins, to
let your Imagination see Human Life ( or in that case eternal existance, just because life is term for something that have an End ) without Time dimension.
where Everything Last forever, including Orgasm
Social situation and norms, are part of Reality, in wich Life is Life, very thing
that Makes us All " Like One under the Sun "
smkolins
Bahá'í
Plaidback said:
As much as we cannot understand or percieve true reality unvarnished, in the same breath, we cannot escape it.
I do not need to imagine it. I'm in it, deaf dumb and blind.
But I wish to make a difference in the few dimensions I have access to, so that as part of the whole, no change is percieved. If I did not do my part the whole would still be unchanged, but where I would fit in would leave me ashamed.
Plaidback said:
If you don't mind then, could you describe what love feels like, or what it's like to be born blind and see absolutely nothing, not even blackness, or why do you like the food that you eat and why others may not?
Plaidback said:
So Truth didn't exist before Yeshua (much later nicknamed, "Jesus") was born?
"I came not to abolish the law but to fulfill it."
-Yeshua (Jesus)
jack
www.jackmctamney.com
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I feel the way you feel, and not feeling that way.smkolins said:
My life, my Love, everything I know, everything I feel, is true ultimate reality. And you don't stand chance to proove me wrong.Who ever died, infact escaped it
feel free to feel anyway you feel free ( don't hurt yourselfsmkolins said:
)Can you be more specific about " the few dimensions I have access to ",smkolins said:
it sound kinda sci-fi
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English is not my birth language, so, very often, have to reach for dictionarydauer said:
to see definition for the words which I use. When talking about Reality, it is
something that does not involve God, because it covers Everybody, Atheist's
included. That's why, I felt your theory about " Jewish reality map ", simply
as Jewish way of Life, just like every other Society have develop theirs.
Which are all together just components of this Planet's Reality.
Reality is truth, beliefs are Not, and yet, they are still part of that Reality.
Only as Imagination, just like Movies.
Now, when I've looked for definition for " Agnostic " , it says :
" One who believes that it is impossible to know whether there is a God "
" One who is doubtful or noncommital about something "
Which are atributes a bit opposite of what you feel you are, according to
that link.
Most important is that you are satisfied with how you feel, which is something
nobody should argue. It was your choice to put Label to that, and to me,
Agnostic kinda don't jive with your posts. But that's just Me
I am not barking, I am telling you the truth about what I was told by Jews.dauer said:
Are they Ortodox, non Ortodox, or whathaveyou it's irrelevant.
Torah is still One and Only relevant factor, and Everyone deserves right to
feel about it Anyway they can.
Nothing I've said was off topic. Topic is " Why do you believe ? ", and there is
huge number of people believing that Jews have major influence on what is going on in the World today, maybe you just never heard of that kind of
belief, just like I've never heard of "I placed a jar in Tennessee (or Tenessee)"
smkolins
Bahá'í
Plaidback said:Can you be more specific about " the few dimensions I have access to ",
it sound kinda sci-fi
Look up "string theory". Basically there has been success explaining the fundamental forces by appealing to mathematical relationships. This is far too simple but the process of addition is like elecricity, subtraction is like magnetism. So Electromagnetism is like adding and subtracting (don't take this particular analogy too far, just the idea of how two things relate can be one way of a force and another way of the same things relating is another force.) The same goes on for the weak and strong nuclear forces. They can all be explained by different math on the same stuff.
Making gravity fit didn't work at all until someone noticed that if you added an extra dimension then you got much closer - though still not all the way. THis is one of the lines of reason which points to the idea now part of string theory that the full definition of the real world must have more dimensions and that it isn't an infinite number of dimensions. In fact I beleive it's widely held among thos folks that it cannot be more than 11 dimensions, and most favor 7 for some reason i do not know. Plus time btw, time is not counted as one of these dimensions. Or so goes the theory at the moment.
BTW one of the interesting implications I recall reading is to explain the comparative weakness of gravity because it is bleeding through a great deal more space than our everyday three dimensions. Taken as a whole across all dimensions it may be a far far more powerful and magnificent force. I wonder if the overall interdimensional structures, whatever they may be, actually have a single more organized structure than our scattered galaxies and widely seperated stars and planets. Things may well be far more closely associated in the realm of realms....
In any case, in large part, my life is lived through the 3 space dimensions and time. Within that context I hope to live meaningfully. And you too!