What Makes Jesus The Son Of God?-The Son Of God Theory.

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bhakthi

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Before Lord Jesus was born, Angel Gabriel appeared to Mary to speak about His birth and told her like this, “The Holy Spirit will come upon you, and the power of the Most High will overshadow you. Therefore the holy child to be born will be called the Son of God.” Mathew;1:35

When Jesus came to be baptized by John the Baptist in Jordan, heaven opened and the Holy Spirit in the form of a dove came down and stayed on Jesus and a voice was heard from heaven, ”This is my beloved Son in whom I am well pleased”Mark;1:10,11

Lord Jesus did not pop up like any other religious or political leader.The world was waiting for him.When his star appeard in the sky wise men came from the east looking for the newborn king of Israel.They knew this was extra ordinary child.Many kings and prophets spoke about his coming and they wanted his coming happen in their days.John the baptist once sent his disciples and asked Jesus, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another ?'" Luke;7:20 Martha confessed to Jesus saying, "Yes, Lord; I believe that you are the Christ, the Son of God, he who is coming into the world." John;11:27.When Philip met Lord Jesus he brought Nathanael to him saying,” We have found him,of whom Moses in the law,and the prophets, wrote." John;1:45 Abraham rejoiced that he would see his day and he saw it and was glad.Moses wrote about him.David called him Lord. Isaiah saw his glory.John the baptist saw him and testified publicly that Jesus was the Son of God.

When Jesus was on the Mount with Peter James and John Elijah and Moses appeared to them and the same voice head at the time of baptism was heard from the cloud one more time saying,” This is My beloved Son; listen to Him!”.Mark ; 9:4-7

Jesus himself spoke these words, ”God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world but that the world through him might be saved.”John;3:17

While Lord Jesus was ministering in Jerusalem once he spoke like this,” For whatever the Father does, these things the Son also does in the same way.”John;5:19

No other man can make a claim like this.Lord Jesus said that he can do all things the Father[God] does No prophet, not even Moses or Elijah could ever say something like this.

This makes Jesus equal with God.

Another statement Jesus made shows that He is omnipresent like God.Lord Jesus said, “Where two or three are gathered together in My name, I am there among them." Mathew;18:20

Only God can be present in many different places at the same time.If Jesus was only a man he could not have made this statement.

Claiming to be the Son of God was the only reason the Jews found to hand Jesus over to Pilate. After Jesus was arrested The High Priest before the council asked him,

“Are You then the Son of God?" So He said to them, "You rightly say that I am." Luke;22:70

When the Jews brought Jesus before the governor they accused him saying, "We have a law, and according to that law He must die, because He made Himself the Son of God." John;19:7

And Jesus did not deny the charge.

Witnessing the earthquake and the darkness and all that happened at the time of the crucifixion, the Roman centurion said,”This was truly the Son of God.” Luke;23:47

The Koran says Jesus is the Ruh or the Spirit of God.That makes him one with God. A man’s spirit is not something apart from him.The spirit of a man is that man himself.Just like that God’s Spirit is one with Him.

Jesus was different from all other human beings for this reason because He came from God.It cannot be said about Adam that he was the the spirit of God.Adam was made out of dust.All other humans have descended from him and possess the Adamic nature.None of them can claim that he is the Spirit of God.Only Jesus was different.

The first chapter of the gospel of John says,” In the beginning was the Word; and the Word was with God, and the Word was God. He was with God in the beginning. All things were created through Him, and apart from Him not one thing was created that has been created.”John;1:1-3

Before going to heaven Lord Jesus told his disciples,”I am with you always even to the end of the age.”Mathew ;28 .No man, how great or mighty, could ever say this before he leaves the world that he will be with his family or nation or property forever.Lord Jesus can be in heaven and on earth at the same time. Jesus Christ is Immanuel which means- God Is with us.

THE SON OF GOD THEORY [MORE]

“You are my Son.Today I have begotten You.”Psalm; 2 :7. This scripture, God speaks here, is about a Son,whom He has begotten.Threre are many who think,it is about King David,that God is speaking here,because David wrote this Psalm.It was Jesse,who begot David,not God.There is no reason to believe it is about David because,it doesn't make any difference in his life.David had a natural birth and he lived and died like any other Patriarch or Prophet.But like in many other Psalms[ 2,8,16,22,40,68,110 etc] David here, is prophetically speaking about,the Messiah.who is to be begotten of God.It is Jesus Christ who was conceived by the Holy Spirit of God, in the womb of a virgin, and later raised as God's first-born from the dead
Again the scripture says; “Unto us a child is born ,unto us a Son is given,……His name shall be called..Wonderful ‘Counselor’,’ Mighty God.”Isaiah;9:6.This child is the same as spoken by Isaiah ”Behold, the the virgin shall conceive and bear a Son ,and shall call His name ‘Immanuel’. ”Isaiah;7:14.Who is this child or son the scriptures talk about?How can a child born in the land of Israel be called ‘Mighty God and Immanuel’? Another scripture tells, ”But you Bethlehem,Ephratha,though you are little among the thousands of Judah ,yet out of you shall come forth,The One to be ruler in Israel. Whose goings forth have been from everlasting.” ”Micah;5:2 Everyone agrees this is a Messianic scripture.We read in the gospel of John, ”In the beginning was the word and the word was with God and the word was God.And all things were made through Him.”And this is what Micah says “His goings forth are from everlasting.”The word became flesh and dwelt among us”John;1:14.
All these prophetic words were fulfilled in Jesus Christ . He was born to a

virgin by the name of Mary, when she got conceived by the Holy Spirit. When He grew up,He became a powerful Prophet in Israel,and did miracles and signs no one else has ever done.And He spoke the words no one could ever speak.What is written in Isaiah 61 “The Spirit of the Lord is upon Me because He has anointed Me………was fulfilled through Him.
Another scripture says,”For You will not leave my soul in Sheol,nor will you allow your Holy One to see corruption” Psalm;16:10.It is clear that David who wrote this Psalm died and was buried,therefore saw corruption.But Jesus about whom this was written didn't see corruption,because when Jesus died, God raised Him from the dead, and seated Him at His right hand .This is what David speaks about in Psalm;110:1” The Lord said to my Lord Sit at my right hand till I make your enemies your foot stool”. David foresaw this event in the Holy Spirit and he calls Him Lord, even though He is his son, according to the flesh. Who else is worthy to be seated at the right hand of God other than this Person whom God gave all authority in heaven and earth and who came according to the scriptures?
 
amen! i love prophesy and fulfillment of jesus in the bible. it intertwines all old and new testaments and shows that jesus christ is the son of god and the lord of lords and king of kings whose kingdom is forever and ever.

deuteronomy: I will raise up for them a prophet like you from among their brothers; I will put my words in his mouth, and he will tell them everything I command him.

psalms: In the beginning you laid the foundations of the earth,
and the heavens are the work of your hands.

john: Through him all things were made; without him nothing was made that has been made. In him was life, and that life was the light of men. The light shines in the darkness, but the darkness has not understood it.


He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-45).
 
He said to them, "This is what I told you while I was still with you: Everything must be fulfilled that is written about me in the Law of Moses, the Prophets and the Psalms." Then he opened their minds so they could understand the Scriptures (Luke 24:44-45).
to me this is very telling, he consciously set out to fulfill scriptures, not accidently, not divinely, it almost appears he had a list and insured he checked them off. Arranging to hold an ass at Lazurus' house I believe and having someone fetch it as he headed into town...
 
What made Jesus Son of God?

It was a vote in 325 CE almost 300 years after his death. The council discussed it and voted, and then developed the Niocene Creed. The decision to make him God incarnate was the outcome of a fistfight and the concept of the Trinity was finalized by the victors.

The prophecy of the Messiah being of the line of David, was broken by scripture by God giving Mary the baby...As only Jesus's brothers were davidic being fathered by Joseph.

namaste,
 
Virtual_Cliff said:
Shouldn't this be on the Christianity thread?
In fact why have it at all? I don't see any discussion here.

ha ha. you said the same thing last time this came up (like about a year ago) & i think this time i have to somewhat agree with you.:)
 
Bandit said:
ha ha. you said the same thing last time this came up (like about a year ago) & i think this time i have to somewhat agree with you.:)

You and VC are quite right.

lunamoth
 
i see discussion and i posted my thoughts, also i thought we were supposed to notify mods to move or report a the thread and not post notices in the discussion, unless that is allowed for certain people that are above rules. certainly bringing it up derails the topic. hopefully we can get back to it.
 
John the baptist once sent his disciples and asked Jesus, 'Are you he who is to come, or shall we look for another ?'" Luke;7:20


It seems even John was uncertain despite baptising him.

Aren't we all sons and daughters of God? Who is it who rejoices at the splendour of a beautiful sunset or a summer breeze blowing against our cheek. We the witnesses and experiencers of this awesome creation.

Also the son of which God? The God or divinity of the Jews. Or the God that created this immeasurable universe.

Also why didn't this God send his Son to the Chinese, the Aborigines, and the Indians.:)
 
Green Knight said:



It seems even John was uncertain despite baptising him.

Aren't we all sons and daughters of God? Who is it who rejoices at the splendour of a beautiful sunset or a summer breeze blowing against our cheek. We the witnesses and experiencers of this awesome creation.

Also the son of which God? The God or divinity of the Jews. Or the God that created this immeasurable universe.

Also why didn't this God send his Son to the Chinese, the Aborigines, and the Indians.:)

john respectfully humbled himself in front of jesus and thought he should be baptized by him that is different from being uncertain. john knew who he was.

we are all made in gods image, and he loves us all, and created everything for us. he does not want to lose anybody, he corrects us so we might stay on the right path. and gives us his word to live by that we might be acceptable to him. he asks us to acknowedge he is god and worship him and love everyone as he loves us.

from a christian standpoint the jews are the chosen people, where the prophets come from, and where the son of god came from to save everyone that believes in him. through gods grace and the work of the holy spirit, the christian church spreads the gospel, both the old and new testament (love and forgiveness, prophecies and fulfillments, and what is to be), to all the world. in this respect, god did send his son to everyone, and continues to do so.
 
Green Knight said:



It seems even John was uncertain despite baptising him.

Aren't we all sons and daughters of God? Who is it who rejoices at the splendour of a beautiful sunset or a summer breeze blowing against our cheek. We the witnesses and experiencers of this awesome creation.

Also the son of which God? The God or divinity of the Jews. Or the God that created this immeasurable universe.

Also why didn't this God send his Son to the Chinese, the Aborigines, and the Indians.:)

Could we adopt ourselves as children of God?
Only one God exist, God the Universe.
And if Jesus Christ was sent to either Chinese or elsewhere, then He wouldn't been killed. :)
 
Hi.

Emanuel--I believe this name means "God is with you." However, Jesus WAS NOT EVER named Emanuel and none of his disciples ever called him with such a name.
And just because a person is called 'emanuel' does not mean that he is divine.

To my understanding the council of 300s A.D. created the theory of Jesus' "divinity". If Jews expected a human Messiah, why would Jesus claim to be devine, when he himself was following the Law of the O.T.?
 
Amica

Christians say Jesus was divine not because he was not called Emmanuel (God with us) but because of what he said about himself and because he resuscitated from death.
 
Peace to all...

Before i begin, i would like to declare that i have no intention what so ever to provoke squabbles with my Christians friends...i'am here no more than just to gain insights and understandings...ok, let' carry on with our discussion.

I suppose the Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God mainly because it is stated in the Bible. Here i would like to pose some questions base on the Bible.

King James version, Matthew 3:17 :
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
now refer to this....
King James version, Matthew 5:9 :
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Based on these verses, "son of God" can be define as a respectful person, e.i a prophet. If Jesus is accepted as the Son of God, then by right all the righteous and repectful man of peace is considered children of God too. Not just Jesus the son of God but many others too.

1) My q: Does these two verses contradicts each other?
-----

King James version, Exodus 4:22 :
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

It is clearly Said here that Israel is the son of God and even a firstborn. On the other hand, Jesus was never mentioned as the first born or second or third etc etc...

Now refer to Jeremiah 31:9 :
They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of

waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. It is clear here, based on the Bible itself, Jesus is not the only son of God but many others too. It Seems like What is meant by "son" or "children" or "child" ...are those who are loved by God, including Jesus. So the meaning of "son" in Bible is contrary to the real meaning of son.

2) My q: Does this two verses contradicts with the belief of Jesus as the son of God?

Peace....
 
n4h1z said:
Peace to all...

Before i begin, i would like to declare that i have no intention what so ever to provoke squabbles with my Christians friends...i'am here no more than just to gain insights and understandings...ok, let' carry on with our discussion.

I suppose the Christians believe that Jesus is the son of God mainly because it is stated in the Bible. Here i would like to pose some questions base on the Bible.

King James version, Matthew 3:17 :
And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.
now refer to this....
King James version, Matthew 5:9 :
Blessed are the peacemakers: for they shall be called the children of God.

Based on these verses, "son of God" can be define as a respectful person, e.i a prophet. If Jesus is accepted as the Son of God, then by right all the righteous and repectful man of peace is considered children of God too. Not just Jesus the son of God but many others too.

1) My q: Does these two verses contradicts each other?
-----

King James version, Exodus 4:22 :
And thou shalt say unto Pharaoh, Thus saith the LORD, Israel is my son, even my firstborn:

It is clearly Said here that Israel is the son of God and even a firstborn. On the other hand, Jesus was never mentioned as the first born or second or third etc etc...

Now refer to Jeremiah 31:9 :
They shall come with weeping, and with supplications will I lead them: I will cause them to walk by the rivers of

waters in a straight way, wherein they shall not stumble: for I am a father to Israel, and Ephraim is my firstborn. It is clear here, based on the Bible itself, Jesus is not the only son of God but many others too. It Seems like What is meant by "son" or "children" or "child" ...are those who are loved by God, including Jesus. So the meaning of "son" in Bible is contrary to the real meaning of son.

2) My q: Does this two verses contradicts with the belief of Jesus as the son of God?

Peace....

Son of God is a title. Jesus is also called son of man & has many other titles.
you should also know that there are many different ways that people see it.

there are scriptures where Jesus is called the firstborn and in many different ways. i dont think any of the verses you are looking at contradict :) .
i think the problem begins because of the preeminent factor of Jesus & that he did exist before coming through the womb of Mary.

i do not feel at liberty to discuss in detail what i believe concerning how Jesus fits into all this, in a setting like this. however, if there are any muslims or others who believe the bible is true or believe that it might be true, and/or would like to see a different understanding than the traditions & different doctrines that have been passed down, i would be happy to discuss that with anyone in private in a one on one. the reason being, that it is so complex & so detailed that it is almost impossible to do it in a public setting like this without running into the same old squabbles & going around in circles... and because i believe something different than anyone has ever heard before...so that becomes a chore in itself.

i have to agree that we are all sons of God through the spirit of adoption, Jesus being the first begotten Son of God & first in all apsects & the sheep follow Jesus into the fold. so, we are all sons of God if we want to be led by the spirit of God & if we want recieve Him.:)

Those who are led by the Spirit of God are sons of God. For you did not receive a spirit that makes you a slave again to fear, but you received the Spirit who makes you sons. And by him we cry, "Abba, Father." (Romans 8:14-15 NIV)

John 1:12 (KJV) But as many as received him, to them gave he power to become the sons of God, even to them that believe on his name: 13 Which were born, not of blood, nor of the will of the flesh, nor of the will of man, but of God.


Peace
 
Peace to Bandit....

Thanx for your respond & comment. I appreciate it. So what is it that makes this doctrine so complex in christianity? Could you just give me a brief preview/ xplanation regarding it... in a way that is suitable to a laymen like me...
I think i'am not qualified to take Bible studies yet since I have not even finished the Quran myself... Maybe just a few selection of Biblical subject. I think it is better to do it one-by-one...God willing one day I will...afterall these are the books authored by God....and i wouldn't want to fail my "Core subject"... :)


and because i believe something different than anyone has ever heard before...so that becomes a chore in itself.
Do you mean you have different views on the Trinity doctrine?...Please check out my post on the concept of Trinity here, maybe you could help ---> http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=49803#post49803

Peace...
 
n4h1z said:
Peace to Bandit....

Thanx for your respond & comment. I appreciate it. So what is it that makes this doctrine so complex in christianity? Could you just give me a brief preview/ xplanation regarding it... in a way that is suitable to a laymen like me...
I think i'am not qualified to take Bible studies yet since I have not even finished the Quran myself... Maybe just a few selection of Biblical subject. I think it is better to do it one-by-one...God willing one day I will...afterall these are the books authored by God....and i wouldn't want to fail my "Core subject"... :)



Do you mean you have different views on the Trinity doctrine?...Please check out my post on the concept of Trinity here, maybe you could help ---> http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=49803#post49803

Peace...

i just dont have an interest in trying to change what others believe. i read your other post. i believe in the name of the father & of the son & of the holy ghost. how someone chooses to put that together has no impact on someones salvation as far as i am concerned & it disturbs me when i see that happen over arguing, so i do not discuss it in depth especially with a bunch of people at once.
i see a father & a son. i do not see a third person in this. for me, the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Father.

i understand what others believe but what i believe is not easy to see either & it usually goes unacknowledged & that is fine by me & i dont tell what i believe until i know someone is on the brink of it for themselves. hope you understand that.

sorry, but there is no simple, brief, preview on it:) . it is perpetual.
however, once in awhile i can spot when someone is searching for a little more & i think you are just as qualified to study the bible just as anyone else is...so hold onto what you got & God will guide you into all truth my brother if you keep the right approach & a honest heart & watch those prepositions carefully.

Notice that there is a phrase "I in them". The word "them" is referred to the disciples of Jesus and "I" refers God. So the the word "I" and the word "them" means that God is with the disciples. If you believe in the unison of The Father and Jesus, you also ought believe the unison of The Father with all the 12 disciples. So it's not only Jesus and the Holy Spirit is one with The Father but also the 12 disciples...not just 3 in 1 but 15 in 1. Based on this contradiction which is the correct one, 3 becomes 1 or 15 becomes 1.
John 14:9 & 10 seems to match each other...but John 17:23 is a bit different

i think you are right on the money with this & what we are looking at is 11 other disciples who are also ONE with Jesus & the Father & we can be one with the Father, just like Jesus is...so that makes a lot of people into one.:)
 
Peace to Bandit...

how someone chooses to put that together has no impact on someones salvation as far as i am concerned & it disturbs me when i see that happen over arguing, so i do not discuss it in depth especially with a bunch of people at once.

I know how hard it is to have a decent dialogue especially in an evironment like this. But it could be done unless everybody abide to the rules and have respect each other's opinion. Anyway...i respect your standpoint.


i see a father & a son. i do not see a third person in this. for me, the Holy Ghost is the same thing as the Father.

So why is the tri- ...i hope i'am not being irksome to you. If you prefer not to respond, it'll be allright and i still respect your stance...

i think you are right on the money with this & what we are looking at is 11 other disciples who are also ONE with Jesus & the Father & we can be one with the Father, just like Jesus is...so that makes a lot of people into one

11?...can you give me more details.
So can it be concluded as the axis of God ?

peace...:)
 
n4h1z said:
Peace to Bandit...



I know how hard it is to have a decent dialogue especially in an evironment like this. But it could be done unless everybody abide to the rules and have respect each other's opinion. Anyway...i respect your standpoint.


So why is the tri- ...i hope i'am not being irksome to you. If you prefer not to respond, it'll be allright and i still respect your stance...

i respect your belief & opinion also, n4h1z:)
i dont think the trinity doctrine is difficult, it just does not make sense to me all the way through. it is a doctrine that some people choose to believe. i believe God is one spirit & not three spirits & Jesus is a man with the spirit of a man & not God turning into a man. so what i see is ONE God & ONE man becoming one, thus Jesus being the fulness of the godhead bodily & God manifested in the flesh the Son of God.
did you ever think of it that way before?

there are mysteries that some people just do not see or they see it different & when people realize that, as you do, then it is possible for two people to speak & reason with one another.



n4h1z said:
11?...can you give me more details.
So can it be concluded as the axis of God ?

peace...:)

there were eleven at that point in time that Jesus made this intercessory prayer for, because Judas had already betrayed Jesus & was no longer a part of the twelve & he was not with them as a team any more.
John17:12While I was with them in the world, I kept them in thy name: those that thou gavest me I have kept, and none of them is lost, but the son of perdition; that the scripture might be fulfilled.
Judas was not replaced as the 12th until the day of pentecost.

Acts1:26 And they gave forth their lots; and the lot fell upon Matthias; and he was numbered with the eleven apostles.

hope that helps a little.:)
i am not sure what you mean by the 'axis' of God, so what does that mean?
 
Peace to Bandit...

it is a doctrine that some people choose to believe. i believe God is one spirit & not three spirits & Jesus is a man with the spirit of a man & not God turning into a man. so what i see is ONE God & ONE man becoming one, thus Jesus being the fulness of the godhead bodily & God manifested in the flesh the Son of God.
did you ever think of it that way before?

Yes i suppose i did. But the common perception on the trinity is that the Father,the son and the holy ghost is 3 beings in 1 and 1 being in 3 forms.
So you're saying that the Father - son relationship is like Master - servant relationship, not beget - begotten as in Abraham - Isaac kind of relationship.


i am not sure what you mean by the 'axis' of God, so what does that mean?

It can be considered like this...
Human: We don't live on white mans' side, we don't live black mans' side....we live on God side
I heard this phrase a few years back on an album by soulfly;)

Peace...
 
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