Religeous Education in Schools

Tao,

I wasn't speaking about Judaism in general. I was speaking very specifically about liberal Jewish schools. I'd imagine the same trend is modelled in liberal schools of other traditions, but I can only speak for what I know.

You seem to have a problem with a parent selecting a school, when a child has no say in this, but isn't the same true for public school? At what point does it become a parent's obligation to make a decision on a child's behalf, and when is it not an obligation?

Also, why are the public schools either Catholic or Protestant? How does that work? I'm not familiar with the Scottish (or is that UK) system.

Dauer
 
You seem to have a problem with a parent selecting a school, when a child has no say in this, but isn't the same true for public school? At what point does it become a parent's obligation to make a decision on a child's behalf, and when is it not an obligation?
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What I mean is specific to religeon, I feel it would be best if all children went to non-denomenational schools and recieved their education together. That seems to be the norm in public schools over there....its not here.

Also, why are the public schools either Catholic or Protestant? How does that work? I'm not familiar with the Scottish (or is that UK) system.
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Scotlands education system is independent from that of England and Wales but I think all have publicly funded protestant and catholic schools. I think the primary reason for it is the historical animosity between the catholic and protestants, that might not be the technical defenitions they would use but it is none the less the truth. My argument is that the separate schools only help maintain the problems of sectarianism. If kids were not subjected to this Us and Them on an institutional basis it would go a long way to eradicating the problem.

Regards

TE
 
I attended state funded Catholic schools from the age of 4 - 18. At the age of 18 I knew a lot about Cathoilcism and Christianity in general and a little bit about Judaism, but I knew nothing at all about Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sihkism, Taoism, or any other faith. I Think I am only now, at the age of 24, reaching an acceptable level of understanding of other faiths.

In addition to this, we were all hounded and ridiculed by students from other schools who referred to us as "Bible Bashers"

I was once given a detention because I refused to spend my RE lesson writing a letter to my MP arguing that abortion should be illegal.

Recently there are a lot of muslim immigrants in the area who have their own, state funded, muslim school. There is ZERO integration between these families and the rest of the town. We have become a collection of completely independant, autonomous communities, and the longer this goes on, the more these communities fear and resent each other's presence, IMO simply out of a lack of understanding.

Perhaps faith schools produce more academically able students with firm religious beliefs, but they tear at our society. I do not believe that religious segregation can ever be positive.
 
Hi there ATF :)


Awaiting_the_fifth said:
I attended state funded Catholic schools from the age of 4 - 18. At the age of 18 I knew a lot about Cathoilcism and Christianity in general and a little bit about Judaism, but I knew nothing at all about Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism, Sihkism, Taoism, or any other faith. I Think I am only now, at the age of 24, reaching an acceptable level of understanding of other faiths.

In addition to this, we were all hounded and ridiculed by students from other schools who referred to us as "Bible Bashers"

I was once given a detention because I refused to spend my RE lesson writing a letter to my MP arguing that abortion should be illegal.

Recently there are a lot of muslim immigrants in the area who have their own, state funded, muslim school. There is ZERO integration between these families and the rest of the town. We have become a collection of completely independant, autonomous communities, and the longer this goes on, the more these communities fear and resent each other's presence, IMO simply out of a lack of understanding.

Perhaps faith schools produce more academically able students with firm religious beliefs, but they tear at our society. I do not believe that religious segregation can ever be positive.
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It is extremely sad and gives no cause for optimism in race relations getting any better here in the UK. When you do see a group of multi-ethnic children at play together especialy in the nursery, (kindergarten), enviroment there is no hint of difference or predjuidice. The negatives are all 'learned' behaviours not inherant ones. I think we must follow the US on this one and remove all funding for Faith schools, or go further and ban all Faith schools before age 12. No politician would have the courage to propose that tho. Its sad that in this IT age we build ever stronger walls around ourselves, become ever more divided, suspicious and fearful. And that we needlessly engender these things in our children is arguably criminal and moraly repugnant. Suffer little children.........


Regards

TE
 
i went to a private school (i think it was baptist) for two days & was kicked out because i refused to get my haircut & wear a tie.

then i was sent to a different private school (brethren christian) & stayed for one year & insisted on going back to the public school because a lot of the private kids most definately had bad attiudes & thought they were better than others. but there really was no difference than a public school as far as i am concerned except for there bible class you have to take.

i have nothing against private schools sponsered by a religion & if that is what someone wants, then it is fine by me.
but it was not for me.
 
It is extremely sad and gives no cause for optimism in race relations getting any better here in the UK. When you do see a group of multi-ethnic children at play together especialy in the nursery, (kindergarten), enviroment there is no hint of difference or predjuidice. The negatives are all 'learned' behaviours not inherant ones. I think we must follow the US on this one and remove all funding for Faith schools, or go further and ban all Faith schools before age 12. No politician would have the courage to propose that tho. Its sad that in this IT age we build ever stronger walls around ourselves, become ever more divided, suspicious and fearful. And that we needlessly engender these things in our children is arguably criminal and moraly repugnant. Suffer little children.........
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I agree with you on most every point. But the following the US example. I wish you could reform your system and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Private religious schools for specific religions denominations that the Gov't doesn't fund make sense. Public schools with an unbiased exploratory comparative-religion curriculum makes huge sense. Banning prayer, any reference to God to me is ludicrous, and as you say the children will suffer.

namaste,
 
Hi Will :)

wil said:
I agree with you on most every point. But the following the US example. I wish you could reform your system and not throw the baby out with the bath water. Private religious schools for specific religions denominations that the Gov't doesn't fund make sense. Public schools with an unbiased exploratory comparative-religion curriculum makes huge sense. Banning prayer, any reference to God to me is ludicrous, and as you say the children will suffer.

namaste,
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It is quite a difficult area. Private schools are as much a socio/economic segragation as a religeous one and just as divisive in terms of preventing the integration of everyone at a young age so they all feel a part of the same society. Whatever the solution its a long way off. Most parents would rightly balk at government removing the choice from them. But in an ideal world the parents would insist on it themselves. We dont live in an ideal world......


Regards

TE
 
Tao_Equus said:
Hi Will :)



It is quite a difficult area. Private schools are as much a socio/economic segragation as a religeous one and just as divisive in terms of preventing the integration of everyone at a young age so they all feel a part of the same society. Whatever the solution its a long way off. Most parents would rightly balk at government removing the choice from them. But in an ideal world the parents would insist on it themselves. We dont live in an ideal world......


Regards

TE
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the private school i went to did not make feel that way at all except for in a couple of theological points. it had different races & several different religions attending it.
it seems you want anyone that has anything to do with specific religions to not be allowed to have private schools & teachers who have specific religions not to be allowed to teach in public schools, or so that is what i am gathering from your opening & continued statements.
 
Hi Bandit :)

Bandit said:
the private school i went to did not make feel that way at all except for in a couple of theological points. it had different races & several different religions attending it.
it seems you want anyone that has anything to do with specific religions to not be allowed to have private schools & teachers who have specific religions not to be allowed to teach in public schools, or so that is what i am gathering from your opening & continued statements.
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No thats not really the case, infact I have no clear idea what I want other than to see much greater integration from all ethno/religeous and economic groups. I have a feeling this is more an issue in the UK than in the US, Also
where religeon is taught it I feel it should not be presented as the only faith, as happens in muslim schools for example. The line between religeous education and indoctrination is a thin one and my belief is that children are not mentaly equipped to make rational interpratations on faith till they are adolescents at least. If children are allowed to freely mix and experience their commonality then it would reduce intolerances endemic in todays fortress communities. I do see the fact though that many parents regard their children as objects to be moulded into servants of their own ideals, and not as independant free spirits in their own right. So things wont change.

Regards

TE
 
no RE in USA---> church attendance goes up
RE in the UK--->church attendance goes down​
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Reminds me of a story about Churchill. One of his colleagues expressed concern about the school Winston had sent his son to: "Don't you know all the masters there are radical Liberals?"
"Good, then all the boys will be Conservatives."
 
bob x said:
Reminds me of a story about Churchill. One of his colleagues expressed concern about the school Winston had sent his son to: "Don't you know all the masters there are radical Liberals?"
"Good, then all the boys will be Conservatives."
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:)!!:)
 
bob x said:
Reminds me of a story about Churchill. One of his colleagues expressed concern about the school Winston had sent his son to: "Don't you know all the masters there are radical Liberals?"
"Good, then all the boys will be Conservatives."
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Even if the overall trends are valid as described, I'm not sure what to do with the interpritation. It could mean that RE leads to lack of religion, or it could mean that one attends church mostly to get religious instruction and getting it somewhere else is good enough.
 
smkolins said:
Even if the overall trends are valid as described, I'm not sure what to do with the interpritation. It could mean that RE leads to lack of religion, or it could mean that one attends church mostly to get religious instruction and getting it somewhere else is good enough.
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Both Churchill's statement and the RE/lack of religion observation might be explained by the following:

If something is too hot, a creature moves toward where it is cold for relief from the heat. Likewise, if something is too cold, a creature will move towards where it is hot for relief from the cold. Where it is lukewarm, a creature develops no compulsion to move.
Therefore, something too extreme forced upon a creature will produce a longing for, and therefore a preference for the opposite, whereas lukewarmness forced upon a creature leads towards a lack of longing. Compulsory extremes will produce a contrary response, whereas compulsive mediocrity will produce a lack of longing, resulting in a lack of response.

Doesn't an attempt to produce a compulsory, one-size-fits-all religious education program fit the description of enforced medicrity? IMHO, it's a surefire way to kill any desire for religion. JMHO.
 
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