Universal temples!

[9Harmony]

Hi everyone!

I haven't read through the entire thread, and i see Scott has mentioned the Baha'i temples, but i don't think he really explained it.
The Baha'i Temples (Mashriqu’l-Adhkár) Literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God”, are open to people of all faiths.

Devotional programs include the reading of scriptures of all major world religions.

So from my pov, these Universal Temples you mention already exist.

 

[Bandit]

Hi everyone!

I haven't read through the entire thread, and i see Scott has mentioned the Baha'i temples, but i don't think he really explained it.
The Baha'i Temples (Mashriqu’l-Adhkár) Literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God”, are open to people of all faiths.

Devotional programs include the reading of scriptures of all major world religions.

So from my pov, these Universal Temples you mention already exist.

hi 9Harmony

ok. but are they going to change the name form bahai temple to universal temple? & does it allow tarah cards & magic potions? & what happens when the muslim starts telling the christian that jesus did not die for sin & he is not the son of God?
& what happens when the Jew starts telling the christian Jesus is not the messiah?

& what happens when the christian who wants to shout for joy & the buddha says you are being too loud?
& what happens when the christian starts reading the greatest name is Jesus & the bahai reads the greatest name is 'O Glory of Glories'
um, all these world religions do not believe the same thing.

 

[Ciel]

And what would happen if all put aside ego inflated ownership, and sat in the stillness and silence of being, might it be possible a new universal life would be born in the realisation of one universal world, with divine guidance of higher love, understanding and compassion.

 

[Bandit]

And what would happen if all put aside ego inflated ownership, and sat in the stillness and silence of being, might it be possible a new universal life would be born in the realisation of one universal world, with divine guidance of higher love, understanding and compassion.

the universal temple of higher love, compassion & understanding.
hmmm

 

[9Harmony]

hi 9Harmony

ok. but are they going to change the name form bahai temple to universal temple? & does it allow tarah cards & magic potions? & what happens when the muslim starts telling the christian that jesus did not die for sin & he is not the son of God?
& what happens when the Jew starts telling the christian Jesus is not the messiah?

& what happens when the christian who wants to shout for joy & the buddha says you are being too loud?
& what happens when the christian starts reading the greatest name is Jesus & the bahai reads the greatest name is 'O Glory of Glories'
um, all these world religions do not believe the same thing.

Hi Bandit,

No, the official name is Mashriqu’l-Adhkár, literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God".

There is no need to change that, that i see.

I completely agree with Ciel's explanation. Thanks Ciel!

 

[iBrian]

The Baha'i Temples (Mashriqu’l-Adhkár) Literally “the Dawning-place of the praise of God”, are open to people of all faiths.

Devotional programs include the reading of scriptures of all major world religions.

So from my pov, these Universal Temples you mention already exist.

Not really - I should think it presumed that a universal temple respects other faiths equally and without bias.

A Baha'i temple has it's own bias, and cannot but promote that bias at other faiths, no matter the manner in which it is done.

 

[_Z_]

Well perhaps what this all means is that you need a truly universal religion for a universal temple! Then everyone would have to be of that religion, which would of course defeat the objective.



Even when faced by a wall of flame there is always a way to proceed: open days where e.g. Christians would be welcomed into mosques and vice versa, perhaps a public holiday for a general swapsies – would be a bit like a trip around the maypole! Share and share alike eh!



I can see all blending into one eventually i.e. humanity will not have religion! It is a dualistic concept, as such intelligent beings will surely move away from it. Perhaps it is a circle – we began without religion, and so shall we return, this does not mean any loss in faith imho so i am all for a bloodless gradual spiritual revolution!


Z

 

[Bandit]

Well perhaps what this all means is that you need a truly universal religion for a universal temple! Then everyone would have to be of that religion, which would of course defeat the objective.



Even when faced by a wall of flame there is always a way to proceed: open days where e.g. Christians would be welcomed into mosques and vice versa, perhaps a public holiday for a general swapsies – would be a bit like a trip around the maypole! Share and share alike eh!



I can see all blending into one eventually i.e. humanity will not have religion! It is a dualistic concept, as such intelligent beings will surely move away from it. Perhaps it is a circle – we began without religion, and so shall we return, this does not mean any loss in faith imho so i am all for a bloodless gradual spiritual revolution!


Z

what if we call it the universal temple of Z and Bandit?
if we dont have religion we probably would not have spirit.

i know one church around here that rents the space out on sunday afternoon to a different religion & that helps the cost for both groups.

maybe each of us are temples & we are our own temple & the universal part is God himself that wants to dwell in us & make us His temple because before He made us he had no people to dwell in or dwell with, & that could be why we want a universal temple.
does that make sense?

 

[Arizona]

If all the names were taken off the buildings and the such what would be left?

 

[lunamoth]

Universal temples!

Sorry that I may have not answered any posts for a few days - computer trouble y know [I have not been receiving e-mail notifications].

This is very controversial!


In my village there is a church, as a 'paganesque' druid I cannot worship there or even go there just to debate ideas and philosophies. It is fine that others can build their own temples, yet the community cannot afford more, otherwise our ancestors would have built a bigger church! There are muslims and Hindu’s in my village too – and they have to travel to the nearest town to worship!



So what I am saying is this: does the Christian church have the right to dominate/dictate, And to stop other religions from utilising ‘our churches’ in what ever religious means we wish? [within reasonable perameters]



In this multicultural and multi-faith age, is in not time that anyone may worship as they please? And in the same place! [Could be difficult in some respects]. Most churches are half empty, so why not fill them – with people and ideas!

Well it works here doesn’t it, wouldn’t it be great if we had places like this forum but for real!



If not churches, then I hope there comes a day when we will all share universal temples of some kind!



Just something I was thinking about, as my wife was talking about her desire to belong and share with others.



Z

Hi Z,

I'm wondering if you are more concerned about the efficient usage of building space, or more with the integration of different kinds of worship.

With respect to the space, I think others here are correct in pointing out that the space itself is not really very important. Churches can be used for other kinds of meetings when they are not being used for worship. And no, it would not really be appropriate to go to Christian worship and try to raise discusssion about other topics. Worship is not about discussion or education (although a little of that can happen) or personal spiritual needs (although that can happen as well). So Christians could worship in an empty room, and conversely I don't think there is any prohibition about using a church for other types of services even for other faiths (if anyone knows differently I'd be interested in hearing it).

With respect to interfaith or integration of faiths in worship, sounds a lot like the UU approach to religion. Have you checked them out? I find the UUs with a strong Christian slant attractive in many ways, but at the end of the day it seems like once you take out enough to make it paletable to all, religion becomes generic and (to me) meaningless.

I prefer the garden of many different flowers myself.

And CR is great because I can smell and appreciate the beauty of all these different religions. But it occurs to me that what we are doing here at CR, learning and getting to know each other, while very important is quite different from prayer and the rituals of worship.

peace,
lunamoth

 

[redindica]

hi 9Harmony

ok. but are they going to change the name form bahai temple to universal temple? & does it allow tarah cards & magic potions? & what happens when the muslim starts telling the christian that jesus did not die for sin & he is not the son of God?
& what happens when the Jew starts telling the christian Jesus is not the messiah?

& what happens when the christian who wants to shout for joy & the buddha says you are being too loud?
& what happens when the christian starts reading the greatest name is Jesus & the bahai reads the greatest name is 'O Glory of Glories'
um, all these world religions do not believe the same thing.

Interesting spin and I think this is at the heart of the matter. In a universal temple you wouldnt need to tell anyone else they are wrong only to respect others as you yourself would want to be respected.

And as a Hindu, I wouldnt dream of telling anybody their faith is wrong, that's just bad Karma.

 

[seattlegal]

I see no reason why e.g. druids cannot see churches in the same light as the stone circles, and Christians as they see it. Of course there would have to be restrictions on kinds of worship, generally a universal philosophy and religion would suffice for all.

Hmm, and just whom would be the authority that would be restricting worship, and who would grant such authority?

One would think that we would have learned our lesson by now. Looking at history, it seems we've been down this road before.

 

[Bandit]

Interesting spin and I think this is at the heart of the matter. In a universal temple you wouldnt need to tell anyone else they are wrong only to respect others as you yourself would want to be respected.

And as a Hindu, I wouldnt dream of telling anybody their faith is wrong, that's just bad Karma.

well yes & i could easily respect that. if everyone just sat there in silence everytime there was a service that might work. but when the praise & worship goes up & the readings start & the prayer starts, baptisms & sacraments & chants or whatever it is people do, boy that would be one confusing matter & i am pretty sure someone would have something to say about it.
for example at my church we have choirs sing, orchestra plays, people discuss the bible & pray out loud sometimes. i really dont think that is going to fly with all these religions unless we just sit there like bumps.

i can just as easily go to a service & house of worship of a different faith & not make waves & show the same respect.

 

[_Z_]

Hmm, and just whom would be the authority that would be restricting worship, and who would grant such authority?

No one! Firstly I think a universal church would and could not cater to all faiths – except in the form of a philosophy forum [like the ancient Greek], secondly if there was a hierarchy then it would not be a universal church – thus there would be no one of authority over another!



The idea of comes from the fact that so many people these days have faith and spirituality without religion. Science is also moving closer to seeing the universal mind, with the quantum matrix and universal algorithms [the computational universe] for existence. I simply believe that most faiths shall become cults then fade completely [or as near as] – they are just very out of date! It appears that our spiritual understanding has not really moved forwards since Mohamed [except perhaps Baha’I].



I do not think that Baha’I is a universal religion, or else it would not be a religion + it is imho an Abrahamic based universal view [a self contradiction]! Close but yet so far.



Universalism is similar to science; there are theories and philosophies but no sheep! [Apparently that is – I think atheist’s baaa a lot ]



As I said before I like the idea of religions meeting more, of sharing their temples and churches on specific days – a little mixing goes a long way.



Personally I am dropping religion – even druidry [the religious side of it], to learn a purer view. A natural philosophy without all the hoo ha i.e. no gods or spirits. I feel there is a skeleton philosophy out there, it will be based on theory and fact - this will serve as a basis for understanding



I am sure I am not alone in this pursuit! And one day we will be the majority.



Z

 

[lunamoth]

[Personally I am dropping religion – even druidry [the religious side of it], to learn a purer view. A natural philosophy without all the hoo ha i.e. no gods or spirits. I feel there is a skeleton philosophy out there, it will be based on theory and fact - this will serve as a basis for understanding



I am sure I am not alone in this pursuit! And one day we will be the majority.



Z

Interesting, Z. Kind of a non-theistic approach?

cheers,
lunamoth

 

[Bandit]

what about scientiology? you might like that one Z. it has philosophy & science.

Scientology Fundamentals by L. Ron Hubbard


What is Scientology? Scientology is an applied religious philosophy. The term Scientology is taken from the Latin word scio (knowing in the fullest sense of the word) and the Greek word logos (study of). In itself the word means literally knowing how to know. Scientology is further defined as the study and handling of the spirit in relationship to itself, universes and other life. Any comparison between Scientology and the subject known as psychology is nonsense.

there is another one real popular religion in Hollywood called universal (something or other) you might like.
no matter which way you go with it, there has to be some fundamentals to start or you have nothing. even cub scouts has that.

 

[lunamoth]

Interesting, Z. Kind of a non-theistic approach?

cheers,
lunamoth

Rereading this, just want to clarify that I am sincerely interested in your decision, not being sarcastic.

luna

 

[seattlegal]

No one! Firstly I think a universal church would and could not cater to all faiths – except in the form of a philosophy forum [like the ancient Greek], secondly if there was a hierarchy then it would not be a universal church – thus there would be no one of authority over another!



The idea of comes from the fact that so many people these days have faith and spirituality without religion. Science is also moving closer to seeing the universal mind, with the quantum matrix and universal algorithms [the computational universe] for existence. I simply believe that most faiths shall become cults then fade completely [or as near as] – they are just very out of date! It appears that our spiritual understanding has not really moved forwards since Mohamed [except perhaps Baha’I].



I do not think that Baha’I is a universal religion, or else it would not be a religion + it is imho an Abrahamic based universal view [a self contradiction]! Close but yet so far.



Universalism is similar to science; there are theories and philosophies but no sheep! [Apparently that is – I think atheist’s baaa a lot ]



As I said before I like the idea of religions meeting more, of sharing their temples and churches on specific days – a little mixing goes a long way.



Personally I am dropping religion – even druidry [the religious side of it], to learn a purer view. A natural philosophy without all the hoo ha i.e. no gods or spirits. I feel there is a skeleton philosophy out there, it will be based on theory and fact - this will serve as a basis for understanding



I am sure I am not alone in this pursuit! And one day we will be the majority.



Z

I must apologize to you, Z. {I hope you won't try to throw me to the lions in the colleseum for saying this!} I thought you were making intimations towards the past actions of the Catholic church with your bringing up the idea of "Universal Temples," and that it was unfair that the only church in your village was a Christian one. Please notice the definition of "catholic:"

cath·o·lic
adj.
1. Of broad or liberal scope; comprehensive: “The 100-odd pages of formulas and constants are surely the most catholic to be found” (Scientific American).
2. Including or concerning all humankind; universal: “what was of catholic rather than national interest” (J.A. Froude).

Hence, my comment:

One would think that we would have learned our lesson by now. Looking at history, it seems we've been down this road before.

Your following comment really seemed to bring this out, {in my mind}

I see no reason why e.g. druids cannot see churches in the same light as the stone circles, and Christians as they see it. Of course there would have to be restrictions on kinds of worship, generally a universal philosophy and religion would suffice for all.

I think we can all agree that Spiritual Fascism isn't beneficial. All we have to do is look back on history in order to see its effects. It has left deep wounds that are still festering today. I'm sorry if this response seems harsh.

 

[redindica]

well yes & i could easily respect that. if everyone just sat there in silence everytime there was a service that might work. but when the praise & worship goes up & the readings start & the prayer starts, baptisms & sacraments & chants or whatever it is people do, boy that would be one confusing matter & i am pretty sure someone would have something to say about it.
for example at my church we have choirs sing, orchestra plays, people discuss the bible & pray out loud sometimes. i really dont think that is going to fly with all these religions unless we just sit there like bumps.

i can just as easily go to a service & house of worship of a different faith & not make waves & show the same respect.

Hello Bandit and thankyou for the reply.

I think you misunderstand my point. Church’s and Temples and Mosques will remain for ritual. However a universal temple would be an adjunct to them as a forum for uniting the various practitioners of faith (to) come together in a non fundamentalist fashion for the good of society.



Something similar to Rothko’s Chapel in Houston Texas…one of the most extraordinary places I’ve visited.

Peace

 

[_Z_]

Seattlegal, hi



Actually I did not know that Catholicism was once considered universal! I see what you meant now, and yes there are all sorts of complications as to what priest one would use, and what service etc. this is why I agree with redindica concerning adjacent philosophy forums.



I also like the ancient libraries like the one at Alexandria [shame it got burned down], where people of all cultures and religions would go to write and debate, I wonder if everyone there was told to be quite like in modern libraries or if there were separate areas for reading and debate.

thanx and much respect

Z