Conversion of the Soul

Namaste all,


interesting thread.

for my own part...

though it may not seem like it, i do possess the wherewithall to read the scriptures for myself, honest. :)

i actually do not require them to be quoted to me as they tend to be, seeing as i have Ocean and all of that ;)

in any event... it is an interesting discussion insofaras most of the Bah'ai seem to shy away from giving their views when asked, specifically, for their personal view, protesting that they may misunderstand. whilst this is a valid concern, especially in a religious discussion, we are not asking (well, i am not usually asking) for any definitive explanation from any particular individual. as i have a bit of understanding of the hierarchial structure of the Bah'ai faith, i realize individuals are not in any position to make authoritive statements.

as such, i'm not interested in those :) i'm interested in dialog and discussion, for the most part. sometimes, i'm just interested in cheese cake.. with strawberry topping... but, i digress :cool:

let me say, and i think i speak for most beings on this forum, we do not expect any being, let alone a Bah'ai to be "perfect". as a consequence, perhaps it would be beneficial to engage in dialog, voicing ones own views and experiences within the context of the Bah'ai tradition?

naturally, i would expect Bah'ai folks to do as they wish in this regard... however, if you are interested in some of the reasons why there seems to be some push back regarding the standard Bah'ai approach, please consider what we are saying. as well recieved as it could be, please consider talking to us rather than quoting scripture at us :)

metta,

~v
 
Namaste Vajradhara!

Thank you for your post. I apologize it's taken me so long to respond. I've attempted to several times, and keep getting sidetracked. :(

So, i'll try again. ;)

I think there's a few things going on here. For one, we are all trying to find a balance, which apparently we haven't mastered yet. ;)

Our writings tell us to quote the writings in our speech, so that they may affect the hearer. We believe that the Word of God is the divine medicine which will heal humanity of it's afflictions. This is the main reason you will see us use quotes frequently.

I know with me time has been a factor, and sometimes it just easier to post a quote than trying to fumble around explaining it in my own words. But it is something i've personally been working on, with some success. Although I still have a lot of work to do in that regard.

It also seems to me, that perhaps, people here are too quick to condemn our methods. It seems to me that some members of other faiths, on other boards, quote extensively, yet i never see their methods called into question.

for example, in the Comparative Religions board, someone asked for similar scriptures, when i posted a bible verse and a quote from Baha'u'llah, which were saying the same thing, i was told that it was inappropriate, if it's not appropriate when it's asked for specifically, i'm at a loss. :confused:

i completely understand the need to find a balance for all members, so i will continue to post if i feel i have something of value to add, but i must say, that i am more relunctant to post now, than i have been previously.

I mostly confine myself to the Baha'i Board, the Comparative Religions board,and the Belief and Spirituality Board. I find i often have things i would like to add to other discussions, but am leary and often opt to keep quiet, for the sake of unity.

It's quite a fine line for us here. Though we appreciate the fact that a Baha'i Board has been established for us, it seems our participation has been curtailed by recent events.

I'll keep working on putting things in my own words and striving to maintain a balance acceptible to everyone.

Have a wonderful day!

Loving Greetings, Amy
 
Hi Amy, I hope you don't mind that I reply to your post above directed to Vaj. I just noticed that you mentioned a post of yours that was modified by Brian. I can't speak for him but if I am remembering the incident correctly the issue may have been the link, rather than the short quote in that post. Perhaps you could get clarification from him...but that was how I saw it.

Also, whenever any member starts to use extensive quotes, long essays instead of dialogue, or extensive use of links to other websites, it catches the attention of the moderators here and we keep an eye on it. A little usually is let slide, or sometimes we just don't see it, but if it is a habit with someone we usually PM them about it, and sometimes take more action if it continues. Much of this goes on behind the scenes unless the member brings it up in a thread.

Also, I'm sorry that you do not feel welcome posting in some boards of this forum. It should not be that way (I hope that it is not due to my posts and if so I apologize) I know there has been discussion about what might be appropriate or not in some boards, but respectful dialogue by any member on any board is welcome. I hope that you will reconsider participating in the other boards when the conversation interests you and you have time.

I'm always glad to read your posts, wherever they are.

peace,
lunamoth
 
Dear Laurie,

I never mind hearing from you my dear. :)

The post in question, i was asked to delete the link, but by the time i was notified, my edit option was gone. Which i relayed back, but at last check the link was still there. But the quotes i had posted had been deleted by someone other than myself.

I personally think you all do a wonderful job here, it is not my intention to call attention to the moderation here. That was just one instance that left me shaking my head. :confused: I apologize if i've offended.

I have never been made to feel unwelcome in any of the boards, i just choose to not risk stepping on any toes.

Thank you for your kind words, the feeling in mutual. :)

Have a wonderful day!

-Amy
 
9Harmony said:
It also seems to me, that perhaps, people here are too quick to condemn our methods. It seems to me that some members of other faiths, on other boards, quote extensively, yet i never see their methods called into question.
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We do try and make the effort to treat all faith groups with an even hand, but this is often going to look unfair without the benefit of this wider context of the other staff actions being realised.

Believe me, there's a lot that actually goes on behind the scenes, across all faith groups here, but we try and stop it interfering with the overall interfaith experience - so most of the time no one except the poster in question will ever know that there was an issue raised.
 
I said:
We do try and make the effort to treat all faith groups with an even hand, but this is often going to look unfair without the benefit of this wider context of the other staff actions being realised.

Believe me, there's a lot that actually goes on behind the scenes, across all faith groups here, but we try and stop it interfering with the overall interfaith experience - so most of the time no one except the poster in question will ever know that there was an issue raised.
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Hi Brian,

Believe me i know what goes on behind the scenes, I co-host at another forum.

I apologize, i did not intend to call into question the moderation here, i did not name names, i suppose i was just venting a little. forgive me.

Have a good day!

-Amy
 
No problem at all - you had a sincere question, you asked - that is good. :)

For what it's worth, on the original post edit - I think you got caught up in the tail-end of an issue, and I'm genuinely sorry for that. I'll try to appear less heavy next time. :)
 
I said:
No problem at all - you had a sincere question, you asked - that is good. :)

For what it's worth, on the original post edit - I think you got caught up in the tail-end of an issue, and I'm genuinely sorry for that. I'll try to appear less heavy next time. :)
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Thank you Brian! :)
 
Namaste 9Harmony,

thank you for the post. please forgive my tardy reply!

9Harmony said:
I think there's a few things going on here. For one, we are all trying to find a balance, which apparently we haven't mastered yet.
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of course, this is something we all try to find, especially on forums such as this which encourage a broad array of religous and secular discussion, so that isn't much of a worry for me, at any rate.

Our writings tell us to quote the writings in our speech, so that they may affect the hearer. We believe that the Word of God is the divine medicine which will heal humanity of it's afflictions. This is the main reason you will see us use quotes frequently.
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do you quote the writings in all your dialog?

as i say, i realize some of the reasons why... if, however, you are wondering why there is some push back, it is because quoting scripture puts an end to discussion. there is nothing to discuss when the Holy Text is quoted. it is what it is and that's it.

however, since we are mostly interested in dialog, i would suspect that adopting a more conversationaly approachable method would be condusive to being able to express your views.

I know with me time has been a factor, and sometimes it just easier to post a quote than trying to fumble around explaining it in my own words. But it is something i've personally been working on, with some success. Although I still have a lot of work to do in that regard.
Click to expand...

i find the same with me... often, i'll find a thread that i want to post in but i want to think about what i would like to say... during the thinking process, i often forget the thread!! ;)

It also seems to me, that perhaps, people here are too quick to condemn our methods. It seems to me that some members of other faiths, on other boards, quote extensively, yet i never see their methods called into question.
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whilst that may be so, it isn't really germane to our discussion, in my view. i, for one, am not condeming your methods, rather, i am expressing the manner in which beings like myself are able to be engaged in discussion. you are, of course, free to pursue whichever methods seem correct.

for example, in the Comparative Religions board, someone asked for similar scriptures, when i posted a bible verse and a quote from Baha'u'llah, which were saying the same thing, i was told that it was inappropriate, if it's not appropriate when it's asked for specifically, i'm at a loss. :confused:
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i've really nothing to say about that as i'm unaware of the thread and the conversation therein.

i completely understand the need to find a balance for all members, so i will continue to post if i feel i have something of value to add, but i must say, that i am more relunctant to post now, than i have been previously.
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i can understand your sentiment.

I mostly confine myself to the Baha'i Board, the Comparative Religions board,and the Belief and Spirituality Board. I find i often have things i would like to add to other discussions, but am leary and often opt to keep quiet, for the sake of unity.
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well... whilst that seems like a fine idea... i would be remiss if i didn't suggest a more thorough reading of the CoC so that you wouldn't have these particular concerns. it is, in my view, fairly clear the boundaries that Brian has set upon the forum and, as you probably have read, there are vigiorous and often heated discussions on many of the boards.

It's quite a fine line for us here. Though we appreciate the fact that a Baha'i Board has been established for us, it seems our participation has been curtailed by recent events.
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it is for me too, the fine line part, that is :) it can be... difficult... to not respond when others are misrepresenting your religion. one of the reasons i tend to frequent only a few boards as well.

to be honest, i come to the Baha'i section of the forum simply due to some of the posters here.. i happen to think they post well thoughtout and intelligent posts and i enjoy reading them.

I'll keep working on putting things in my own words and striving to maintain a balance acceptible to everyone.

Have a wonderful day!

Loving Greetings, Amy
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well... as i mentioned... i am able to read the Writings as well as any, i suppose... naturally, my understanding of such would be predicated upon my own capacities and so forth.

i'm sure you've corresponded with certain types of Christian posters that simply cut and paste scripture as their reply. whilst that is, certainly, a valid method of response, it isn't a method which is condusive to conversation and dialog, in my experience.

metta,

~v
 
Namaste Vajradhara,

Vajradhara said:
Namaste 9Harmony,

do you quote the writings in all your dialog?
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i used to, but i'm learning more and more to find my own voice.

as i say, i realize some of the reasons why... if, however, you are wondering why there is some push back, it is because quoting scripture puts an end to discussion. there is nothing to discuss when the Holy Text is quoted. it is what it is and that's it.
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i disagree. Baha'u'llah teaches that every letter of scripture has 70 & 2 meanings. so each passage has infinite gems of wisdom to disclose if we choose to study them and delve into the different layers of meaning.


however, since we are mostly interested in dialog, i would suspect that adopting a more conversationaly approachable method would be condusive to being able to express your views.
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i'm working on it. ;)

i find the same with me... often, i'll find a thread that i want to post in but i want to think about what i would like to say... during the thinking process, i often forget the thread!! ;)
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lol! yes, i can relate.:D


it is for me too, the fine line part, that is :) it can be... difficult... to not respond when others are misrepresenting your religion. one of the reasons i tend to frequent only a few boards as well.

to be honest, i come to the Baha'i section of the forum simply due to some of the posters here.. i happen to think they post well thoughtout and intelligent posts and i enjoy reading them.
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i agree, though it saddens me that it appears most of them have left. i guess you'll just have to put up with me and my not so well thought out and intelligent posts for the time being.

i'm sure you've corresponded with certain types of Christian posters that simply cut and paste scripture as their reply. whilst that is, certainly, a valid method of response, it isn't a method which is condusive to conversation and dialog, in my experience.
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oh, yes, and i agree, but don't you think that a balance of dialogue with perhaps a quote or two supporting those ideas is a viable alternative? still working on finding that balance. ;)

have a wonderful day!

Loving Greetings, Amy

p.s. what does 'metta' mean?
 
Hi, Amy! Allahu-abha!

I still drop in from time to time, but rarely post because I do not feel welcome. I have started participating on two other V-bulletin boards - and am a moderator on one of them - they seem more congenial and accepting to my style. Lunamoth occasionally posts on one of them, too.

Regards,
Scott
 
Namaste 9Harmony,

thank you for the post.


9Harmony said:
i used to, but i'm learning more and more to find my own voice.
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fair enough :)

i disagree. Baha'u'llah teaches that every letter of scripture has 70 & 2 meanings. so each passage has infinite gems of wisdom to disclose if we choose to study them and delve into the different layers of meaning.
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let me ask it in another manner.....

which being or group of beings determines which of the 70 & 2 meanings are correct?

if, as i suspect, this is not up to the individual to decide which meaning is correct or most appropos for their practice, then conversation about said point is effectively moot, from my view.

i suppose that, for me at least, i would rather avoid saying things like "your scripture is wrong" when it could be simply the case that the invidual is incorrect in their understanding of what is being transmitted.

i agree, though it saddens me that it appears most of them have left. i guess you'll just have to put up with me and my not so well thought out and intelligent posts for the time being.
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no worries... a forums populace tends to be cyclical, in my experience. i do not think that your posts are "no so well thought out" :)

oh, yes, and i agree, but don't you think that a balance of dialogue with perhaps a quote or two supporting those ideas is a viable alternative? still working on finding that balance. ;)
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i do, to a certain extent. i conceed that it may be the only real method that is available to the revealed religions. i suppose that, overall, i would tend to think that it would depend on the context of the dialog... of course, therein lies the art of the balance ;)


p.s. what does 'metta' mean?
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metta is a Pali word which means "Loving Kindness" :)

metta,

~v
 
Namaste Vajradhara,

Vajradhara said:
Namaste 9Harmony,

let me ask it in another manner.....

which being or group of beings determines which of the 70 & 2 meanings are correct?

if, as i suspect, this is not up to the individual to decide which meaning is correct or most appropos for their practice, then conversation about said point is effectively moot, from my view.

i suppose that, for me at least, i would rather avoid saying things like "your scripture is wrong" when it could be simply the case that the invidual is incorrect in their understanding of what is being transmitted.
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i hope i have never told someone that 'your scripture is wrong', that is not something that i would consider doing, as i do not believe that.

the individual is encouraged to delve into the scriptures on their own, to utilize their God given faculties to gleen insights. though in the Baha'i Faith the individual has no right to tell anyone what to believe, but we are free to share what we've discovered in our own efforts. we just cannot claim that our views are authoritative.

as far as what being or group determines which meanings are correct. In the Baha'i Faith that would be The Bab, Baha'u'llah, Abdu'l-Baha and Shoghi Effendi. And now the Universal House of Justice, although they do not have the authority to interpret, they do have the authority to clarify when appropriate.


no worries... a forums populace tends to be cyclical, in my experience. i do not think that your posts are "no so well thought out" :)
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thank you, you are most kind. :)

i do, to a certain extent. i conceed that it may be the only real method that is available to the revealed religions. i suppose that, overall, i would tend to think that it would depend on the context of the dialog... of course, therein lies the art of the balance ;)
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indeed!


metta is a Pali word which means "Loving Kindness" :)

metta,

~v
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thank you!

metta, :)

Have a nice evening!
 
Popeyesays said:
Hi, Amy! Allahu-abha!

I still drop in from time to time, but rarely post because I do not feel welcome. I have started participating on two other V-bulletin boards - and am a moderator on one of them - they seem more congenial and accepting to my style. Lunamoth occasionally posts on one of them, too.

Regards,
Scott
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Hi Scott! Allah'u'Abha!

yes, i've seen you at one of them, what's the other one?

lol! that's probably all i need, another forum to spend time at. hehe!

I hope you are well. nice to see you again.

love & light, amy
 
9Harmony said:
Hi Bruce,

one of them is http://www.interfaithforums.com/index.php?

Scott will have to fill you in on the other one though, i'm curious as well.

Take Care!
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http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/ is busier than the other.
Both of those forums have placed the Baha`i Faith in the Abrahamic Faiths section because they were shown why it should be there, moderation is wider based, one is free and often demanded to go to source material to advance a discussion. They are both more welcoming in my opinion.

Regards,
Scott
 
Popeyesays said:
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/They are both more welcoming in my opinion.
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What's really tiring about your complaints *isn't* that you came into CR to witness at other faiths, or your trying to use the place as a promotional tool for the Baha'i faith...

...it's the fact that you were given second chances to be a constructive member, but all you've ever done is pushed our forgiveness in our faces, and disrupted the entire Baha'i community at CR.

Every forum has it's own standards, and CR is welcoming to people who can respect religious differences, as underlined in the Code of Conduct. You obviously still have problems with that, so feel free to stay on the other forums.
 
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