Baha'i faith influenced off an other relgion?

thanks Mick:)

the rim style can change too along with the tire, like you say, but that inner part of the rim cannot change & the threads on the lock nuts cant change because it wont line up to the hub & bolts, & the nuts wont thread right. the hub, bolts, nuts & center diameter remain constant. unless you totally rip out the axle, hub & modify it.

i am not sure if i am getting it right, but it appears the foundation you mention, at least in thought seems to be kind of inverted.
i know the 10 commnadments, but not everyone really believes in them.

i know we talking about cars now, but it seems the principle applies to belief.:)
there has to be something in the Bahai faith that remains constant & that is what makes it what it is. i am thinking it is the message of these manifestations.
keep talking, i will get it eventually.
 
Bandit said:
thanks Mick:)

the rim style can change too along with the tire, like you say, but that inner part of the rim cannot change & the threads on the lock nuts cant change because it wont line up to the hub & bolts, & the nuts wont thread right. the hub, bolts, nuts & center diameter remain constant. unless you totally rip out the axle, hub & modify it.

i am not sure if i am getting it right, but it appears the foundation you mention, at least in thought seems to be kind of inverted.
i know the 10 commnadments, but not everyone really believes in them.

i know we talking about cars now, but it seems the principle applies to belief.:)
there has to be something in the Bahai faith that remains constant & that is what makes it what it is. i am thinking it is the message of these manifestations.
keep talking, i will get it eventually.
Click to expand...

Hi Bandit,

in thinking about your wheel/tire concept, this is what came to my mind...

The wheel/hub etc, the part that is constant, represents the source of the message, i.e. God.

The tire represents the prophet, who has a direct connection to that source; and the tread, represents the message/teachings that the prophet brings. The tread of each tire may look and sound different, depending on the condition of the road. i.e. the road represents humanity. ;)

the prophet brings their given message to humanity, (the rubber meets the road) and the more mileage each tire has (the older it is), the more gravel (i.e. dogma and tradition) gets stuck in the tread, obscuring the original design, this gravel can alter the sound of the tread as well as the effectiveness of the tire. yet the tread is still there underneath. And the hub (the constant source of which provides and makes it possible for the tire to meet the road) is always the same, never changing.

So i guess you could say that the one constant in the Baha'i Faith is our belief that all of the great prophets were connected to the same source. Though they may have focused on teaching us different aspects of the same One God, they all came to help humanity progress as a whole.

I hope that makes some sense. i'm not a car person, so hopefully i didn't confuse you more. :D

Have a great weekend!

Love & Light, Amy
 
9Harmony said:
Hi Bandit,
So i guess you could say that the one constant in the Baha'i Faith is our belief that all of the great prophets were connected to the same source. Though they may have focused on teaching us different aspects of the same One God, they all came to help humanity progress as a whole.

I hope that makes some sense. i'm not a car person, so hopefully i didn't confuse you more. :D

Have a great weekend!

Love & Light, Amy
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i see it 9Harmony. you explained it similiar to the way Mick did & by pulling them together, i see you are both in agreement on the core of the Bahai faith.
it is good to have a foundation & a core to work from.:)

have a great weekend also.
Love & Light
 
There was conflict with this religion and Christianity more of less from the start and considered heretical.... Now this could be because early Christianity fort for high place in political society and was sucessful..... And so anything not agreeing went down the drain cough cough the Cathars for example. Just look at the Christian Orthodox faith we lost Constantinople. And Orthodoxy is more origianal and passive form of the Christian faith. God favors the vilian? Then again, just like Christ showed, true Christians take the fall....
 
I would like to mention that Manichaeism used the same Christian prophecies as the Baha'i faith to justify a prophetic claim. Other similarities are that Mani literally made an effort to write up the religion himself.

The key to Mani's system is his cosmogony. Once this is known there is little else to learn. In this sense Mani was a true Gnostic, as he brought salvation by knowledge. Manichæism professed to be a religion of pure reason as opposed to Christian credulity; it professed to explain the origin, the composition, and the future of the universe; it had an answer for everything and despised Christianity, which was full of mysteries. It was utterly unconscious that its every answer was a mystification or a whimsical invention; in fact, it gained mastery over men's minds by the astonishing completeness, minuteness, and consistency of its assertions.
http://www.newadvent.org/cathen/09591a.htm
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Hmm....
 
I still think of the curious theolgoical similariy between the Baha'i faith and Manicheanism. Manicheanisms oneness of all relgions was even part of the comandments that Mani wrote that all relgions should be considered equal. Also curiously Mani's mother was persian royalty and as you know royalty has a very very good historical and genealogy sense of there past! So I must say it is very likely that bahaullah knew of Mani and Manicheanism. All you have to do is see how other royal families around the world are. They have a very good sense of there historical back ground and geneology going back hundreds and hundreds of year. Do any Baha'is agree?
 
Postmaster, perhaps you would like to take this conversation to the comparaive board as it seems you really woud like to discuss similarities and differences between these two religions.

Just a thought,
lunamoth
 
Hi, Bandit! :)

You mentioned the fact that the great religions all differ, and Amy gave you the analogy of a single, constant wheel, but with different tires.

I think what will help here is to be aware that the Baha'i Faith makes a distinction between spritual teachings, which we view as constant and unchanging across religions (although sometimes expressed in different wordings), and social teachings, which are intentionally temporary and change from religion to religion!

Examples of spiritual teachings would include "you're here for a reason," "there is a God," "don't murder," etc..

Social teachings are laws such as prayer and fasting, marriage and divorce, administrative structure, and so on.

Only a new Divine Messenger is permitted to change social laws (meaning, of course, that God has changed them through the Messenger), but change them They do! (Good examples include Christ's expanding the law about adultery and abolishing the restrictions on the Sabbath, as recounted in the New Testament.)

Best, and do keep the questions coming! :)

Bruce
 
BruceDLimber said:
Hi, Bandit! :)

You mentioned the fact that the great religions all differ, and Amy gave you the analogy of a single, constant wheel, but with different tires.

I think what will help here is to be aware that the Baha'i Faith makes a distinction between spritual teachings, which we view as constant and unchanging across religions (although sometimes expressed in different wordings), and social teachings, which are intentionally temporary and change from religion to religion!

Examples of spiritual teachings would include "you're here for a reason," "there is a God," "don't murder," etc..

Social teachings are laws such as prayer and fasting, marriage and divorce, administrative structure, and so on.

Only a new Divine Messenger is permitted to change social laws (meaning, of course, that God has changed them through the Messenger), but change them They do! (Good examples include Christ's expanding the law about adultery and abolishing the restrictions on the Sabbath, as recounted in the New Testament.)

Best, and do keep the questions coming! :)

Bruce
Click to expand...

Hi Bruce, a couple of things.

How do Baha'is distinguish between social and spiritual laws? Why would marriage laws be social while prohibition of murder is considered spiritual?

Also, Jesus did not change any laws, nor did he introduce any new 'laws.' He changed our way of viewing those laws, revealing that they are actually about love and compassion rather than rigid adherance.

peace,
lunamoth
 
lunamoth said:
How do Baha'is distinguish between social and spiritual laws? Why would marriage laws be social while prohibition of murder is considered spiritual?

Also, Jesus did not change any laws, nor did he introduce any new 'laws.' He changed our way of viewing those laws, revealing that they are actually about love and compassion rather than rigid adherance.
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Hi!

I have to post briefly and run because I'm time-critical right now!

Marriage laws have clearly changed over the ages, e.g. whether or not divorce is permitted and the number of wives allowed. Hence, these are social laws.

The prohibition on murder, in contrast, is universal and IOV unchanging: spiritual law.

Jesus not only altered/amplified some teachings in the Sermon on the Mount (both spiritual and social laws, it seems), but implicitly abolished the Sabbath prohibitions through His supposed "violation" of them, as objected to by the Pharisees.

Gotta run.

Regards, and bye! :)

Bruce
 
BruceDLimber said:
Hi!

I have to post briefly and run because I'm time-critical right now!

Marriage laws have clearly changed over the ages, e.g. whether or not divorce is permitted and the number of wives allowed. Hence, these are social laws.

The prohibition on murder, in contrast, is universal and IOV unchanging: spiritual law.

Jesus not only altered/amplified some teachings in the Sermon on the Mount (both spiritual and social laws, it seems), but implicitly abolished the Sabbath prohibitions through His supposed "violation" of them, as objected to by the Pharisees.

Gotta run.

Regards, and bye! :)

Bruce
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Hi Bruce, thank you. :) So as not to derail this thread I wrote a post that relates to the above and put it here. I know you see it differently, so this is just if you are interested in my view.

peace,
lunamoth
 
Regarding some of my posts on the thread, I think the Baha'is are totally ignoring me on them. Maybe I should be a painter and paint what I discovered for future generations lol.. I'm not attacking I'm reasoning, which is also part of the Baha'i way?
 
I think they are answering you, Postmaster - it's smply that they didn't appear to be aware of Manachaeism, so they can't answer your question as you perhaps wanted. :)
 
As soon as something that is asked that is not covered by Baha'i framework of talk and scripture, its almost like some of them are lost.
 
Take a look Brian!

Mani viewed himself as the final successor in a long line of prophets, beginning with Adam and including Buddha, Zoroaster, and Jesus. He viewed earlier revelations of the true religion as being limited in effectiveness because they were local, taught in one language to one people. Moreover, later adherents lost sight of the original truth. Mani regarded himself as the carrier of a universal message destined to replace all other religions. Hoping to avoid corruption and to ensure doctrinal unity, he recorded his teachings in writing and gave those writings canonical status during his lifetime.
Click to expand...

Mani sought to found a truly ecumenical and universal religion that would integrate into itself all the partial truths of previous revelations, especially those of Zoroaster, Buddha, and Jesus. However, beyond mere syncretism, it sought the proclamation of a truth that could be translated into diverse forms in accordance with the different cultures into which it spread. Thus, Manichaeism, depending on the context, resembles Iranian and Indian religions, Christianity, Buddhism, and Taoism.
Click to expand...
 
Postmaster said:
As soon as something that is asked that is not covered by Baha'i framework of talk and scripture, its almost like some of them are lost.
Click to expand...

Well, you're asking for them to post a faith response to something outside of their faith. :)

As for the quote - it's all really very interesting, but you were asking for a Baha'i point of view as to how the Baha'i Faith views Manichaeism - and I think you have your answer. :)

If you really want to compare the two as religions, we really should have a topic on the comparative board, rather than this one.
 
Postmaster said:
Regarding some of my posts on the thread, I think the Baha'is are totally ignoring me on them. Maybe I should be a painter and paint what I discovered for future generations lol.. I'm not attacking I'm reasoning, which is also part of the Baha'i way?
Click to expand...

I would have to agree with you a little bit, Postmaster. The topic isn't very interesting to me and a couple of us have tried to answer your questions the best we can. There is no Baha'i stand on this religious sect, so we can't tell you what Baha'u'llah told us about it and it seems that none of the Baha'is that have chose to stay on this board are interested in the topic enough to get into a discussion with you about it.

Thank you for recognizing that using logic and rationality, the gift we believe that God gave man that seperated us from the animals, is a trait of the Baha'i members here. Anybody can use these gifts, as you suggest you are doing, but still the topic to me is more of a Physical Geography or Anthropological subject than a comparative religion subject. Finding similarities between two groups separated by a thousand years probably wouldn't be very difficult, but it also wouldn't be particularly significant.

Sorry if you wanted more discourse on this subject, but it doesn't seem forthcoming.

warmly,

Mick
 
Personally I think there is a blood line, Baha'u'llah royal heritage is ancient if im not mistaken. There is a connection with the theology even so and I think it would be significant. Baha'u'llah claimed in his books as he lay on the sofa winds of knowledge from the divine blew upon him.. However some theology of Manichaeism is the same to Baha’i. Call me a cynic and all due respect to Baha'u'llah your prophet. But reason is getting the better of me.
 
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