The Cosmos Is Not Enough

Ruby,

You're quite right about the benefits of the internet, especially for those in remote areas. As you noted, however, Houston provides wonderful opportunities for face-to-face meetings of Freethinkers, Humanists, Atheists, etc.

As such, what seems to happen is that the online discussions get too bitter and the subjects too academic. Meanwhile, when we're face to face, we have good discussions but there is a civility and friendliness that gets lost in online debates and discussions. The overall effect seems to be harmful to our groups.

I would say that if we are to begin to build an applied life practice similar to what Eudaimonist has outlined above, the face-to-face needs to be emphasized. It also seems like too many good conversations are had online between we who live in the same city, and then there's less to say when we get together. Not to mention the fact that we're trying to "live" and "apply" these things, not just have academic discussions.

I enjoy my online conversations greatly, but there are plenty of other forums and email lists which are independent of geography that myself and the other members can get on and use on their own (such as this one). This has the advantage of including far more than just our local folks. Then we can save all these interesting conversations for when we get together, and our relationships are better off. That's my current impression anyway.

I'm on a member's suggestion committee for the HCoF and abolishing their email discussion list (but keeping their official email announcement list) is something I'm thinking of suggesting.
 
DT Strain said:
As such, what seems to happen is that the online discussions get too bitter and the subjects too academic. Meanwhile, when we're face to face, we have good discussions but there is a civility and friendliness that gets lost in online debates and discussions. The overall effect seems to be harmful to our groups.

I would say that if we are to begin to build an applied life practice similar to what Eudaimonist has outlined above, the face-to-face needs to be emphasized. It also seems like too many good conversations are had online between we who live in the same city, and then there's less to say when we get together. Not to mention the fact that we're trying to "live" and "apply" these things, not just have academic discussions.
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This makes a lot of sense. I thought you were asking for ideas. Add to that the fact that the internet has been a real life saver for me. There are not a lot of people who think and see the world like I do but via the internet I have made some really good friends. Thus, I automatically thought of the benefit of internet discussion.
 
RubySera_Martin said:
This makes a lot of sense. I thought you were asking for ideas. Add to that the fact that the internet has been a real life saver for me. There are not a lot of people who think and see the world like I do but via the internet I have made some really good friends. Thus, I automatically thought of the benefit of internet discussion.
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Welcome to the club...:D
 
Quahom1 said:
Lol, quite right. The Cosmos is not enough. It is the "infinite" we seek, in earnest.
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Thank you for the post.

With respect, I'm not a member of your "we". You are, of course, free to earnestly seek whatever you want, as you choose. :)

I personally accept my finite nature, and I seek what is finite.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
DT Strain said:
1) Do you have members who use every opportunity to bash religion or talk politics? If so, how do you keep this from inching its way into everything?
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This might be a better question to ask in my email list, or with one of FOR's organizers by phone. The problem here is that I'm a long-distance member who participates by e-list. I'll assume that you're not asking for my advice as a moderator of an e-list, but rather how to handle these issues "in person". I can't help you there.

Does the FOR have such an online discussion list? How has this been handled by FOR?
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FOR does not have an official online discussion list. There is a list that several members of FOR happen to use, and that is one I own and moderate. (I have a strong personal incentive to maintain one, since I'm a long-distance member.)

There are differences of opinion among members of FOR on how testiness should be handled in e-lists, though my personal opinion is that since the e-list, and FOR, have personal growth and ethical behavior as a theme and purpose, it is reasonable to insist that participants are expected to be civil to one another and respect the purpose of the e-list.

There are others who prefer a more laissez-faire approach, treating the e-list as a learning opportunity of how to deal with group dynamics, but that's not how I moderate my e-list.

3) In what ways has FOR sought to make the gatherings more personal and spiritual in tone, and less like a business meeting in a board room?
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That would be an excellent question to ask one of the in-person members, but I think I can answer it reasonably well. There is a monthly gathering called the FORum (the closest thing FOR has to a "church service"), the purpose of which is to celebrate key values in an aesthetically, and spiritually, pleasing way. I've seen a FORum on VHS tape, so I know roughly what it can be like.

FORums start with a celebration of visitors and each other where everyone is warmly welcomed, and then everyone is offered an opportunity to share some positive thing that happened in their lives recently. This sets a "personal" tone for the gathering, instead of a more business-like one, since it is clear that the gathering isn't about "conducting business", but about reflecting on and celebrating important human values.

Then, FORums are divided up into several distinct, usually five-minute, planned presentations from volunteers. Each presentation has to do with celebrating a value, and the usual list is some subset of freedom, heroes, performance (such as a skit or a song), literature, art, mythology, science, talent, ethics, and personal mission. Emphasis is always on the positive, since this is about celebrating positives, not criticizing negatives. A demonstration of artistic talent is especially welcomed and adds to the spiritual feel, and personal views (such as on a personal hero) also make for a sense that one isn't in a board room.

Of course, it's always possible that someone's presentation will come across as a bit too "dry", but the format seems to encourage the opposite, and it's all a learning and growing experience, anyway.

I hope that helps! :)


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
RubySera_Martin said:
May I interupt?
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You sure may! :)

Is there a way to have both the face-to-face group and online discussion?
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It would seem so, in my experience. Even though my e-list is not an official e-list of FOR (because there are none), and is open to non-members, there are a few members of FOR who seem to like to participate with each other both there and in-person. It seems to work.


eudaimonia,

Mark
 
Eudaimonist said:
Thank you for the post.

With respect, I'm not a member of your "we". You are, of course, free to earnestly seek whatever you want, as you choose. :)

I personally accept my finite nature, and I seek what is finite.


eudaimonia,

Mark
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For certain. In this case, where ever you go, there you are (in the finite). ;)

v/r

Q
 
Quahom1 said:
For certain. In this case, where ever you go, there you are (in the finite). ;)

v/r

Q
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Quahom, I want to apologize for thinking you were mocking anyone. I've just come from a group where a lot of the Christians considered it their birthright or whatever to openly mock and ridicule and denigrate any non-Christians and to cry persecution whenever a non-Christian pointed this out to them or in any way disagreed strongly with them. It was all I could do to keep from responding much more disrespectfully to your post than I did. It took a lot of deep breaths and rewrites. I had to remind myself over and over that this is a different group and that I have seen no mockery on here. I know what I believe but I don't know if those beliefs are Christian or not and I can argue passionately for any point of the compass I choose. So I've attracted fire from Christians and atheists alike. Anyway, I accept your apology and appreciate your clarification, and also your acceptance of Eudaimonist's position. This last point assures me that it's real.

Ruby
 
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