I dont get it....

[Azure24]

I've said all that i have to say... (i will no longer post here again).

I've decided to go back on this quote and change to 'i'll no longer post here again (apart from quotes), so from now on i'm only going to reply in quotes. I'm starting to think you believe more in the Qu'ran than God, a book does not have the answer for everything. I once watched something on T.V. once when a buhddist boy was in meditation for up to 2 years and longer (basically sitting by a tree not moving an inch or eating, drinking anything. Much like a very extreme form of fasting) no tricks as well, no one here probably believes this but for me it shows God wisdom is more than just on the basis of religion he did believe in God of course, God may have made man, but it was man that made religion (sects you can call it). Just before i start replying in quotes, when i come to think of it, the person i quoted wasn't actually you. So i don't actually know how we'd managed to get into this 'discussion'...Anyhow.

However, there are still some of your fellow Christian who do discredit other faith though.

...I do not speak for all Christians though...

This is the fact

......

what is your reason for not believing that Muhammad is not a prophet, or, my apology, do you believe Muhammad to be a prophet in the first place?

...Hmmm, no offence but i don't believe in Islam's (on some points) theology as well...

.

Okay.

......

Why was Jesus preserved:

...Jesus...2) He will return to kill Dajjal who will destroy the world. For Dajjal, his heaven is actually Hell and vice versa. Thus, many people will fall into his fitnah (lies).

Yes he is prophet but not just a prophet.......Through his human form the Son will be descended from Adam, through whom all men died, but He will be a second Adam, by whom all men shall be saved...

.......

I aught to know what have I done to disrespect you, so that I can repent and avoid it in future? So, please enlighten me.

(Jesus' "defence"? For example)

We - as in you? Isn't that a fearful thought, bearing that we only have 60 - 80 earth life years to prepare for it. Hmm... at least we know that our prayers are similar to the way Jesus (pbuh) did. Thus, based on your statement, God will not condem us to hell! Praise be to Allah, the owner of the day of judgement. Thanks for pointing that out Azur24.

my apology because I thought the Bible is for the whole humanity

...isn't that enough?

........

There is great wisdom in Allah. We cannot even grasp his knowledge in our limited minds.

For a start, Muslim perfectly understood God...

...Right!

.........

Praise to Allah for your thoughtfulness.

 

[Light]

I'm starting to think you believe more in the Qu'ran than God, a book does not have the answer for everything.

To clarify this, God, send Quran down to HIS prophet Muhammad to lead mankind to the right path. Thus, there is no contradiction of believing more in the Quran than God. Because, it is written by God HIMself. Well, it is just the same to Christian on the bible. Muhammad (pbuh) is a prophet not only for the Muslims. He is sent as a mercy for all mankind, past and present. It is thus each and every Muslim duty to convey the message. That is all we have to do. Not to convert you, but just to convey the message. Allah will open the heart of whoever he will to embrace Islam. We have no power nor duty to force people into submission.

A book as concise as the Quran does not contain the answers to everything, that, I agree. But, it shows the path/guidelines in finding an answer. The right way to gain Allah approval and to steer away from ours or the whole community destruction.

I once watched something on T.V. once when a buhddist boy was in meditation for up to 2 years and longer (basically sitting by a tree not moving an inch or eating, drinking anything. Much like a very extreme form of fasting) no tricks as well, no one here probably believes this but for me it shows God wisdom is more than just on the basis of religion he did believe in God of course, God may have made man, but it was man that made religion (sects you can call it).

That shows just how capable a human body is. And also the strength of faith. If someone really believe in something and do it, with Allah permission it will be successful. Thus, it is not a surprise if one sits and meditates like the boy you mentioned above.

However, in Islam, as it is a religion of moderation, we are always encouraged to give rest to our body. There is even a history in the prophet (pbuh) time when a lady was praying so much that she had a rope tied across two columns for her to hang on to when she starts feeling tried. One day when the messenger of Allah (pbuh) came and saw the rope, he make enquries. One of the companions then told him the story. This is when the messenger of Allah (pbuh) said (sorry I didn't remember the exact words) that the body needs rest too and not to neglect it.

God wisdom encompass everything that is seen and unseen by our naked eye. God have declared in the Quran that HE has perfected the religion and have choosen Islam as the religion for mankind. See the surah below.

005.003
YUSUFALI: Forbidden to you (for food) are: dead meat, blood, the flesh of swine, and that on which hath been invoked the name of other than Allah; that which hath been killed by strangling, or by a violent blow, or by a headlong fall, or by being gored to death; that which hath been (partly) eaten by a wild animal; unless ye are able to slaughter it (in due form); that which is sacrificed on stone (altars); (forbidden) also is the division (of meat) by raffling with arrows: that is impiety. This day have those who reject faith given up all hope of your religion: yet fear them not but fear Me. This day have I perfected your religion for you, completed My favour upon you, and have chosen for you Islam as your religion. But if any is forced by hunger, with no inclination to transgression, Allah is indeed Oft-forgiving, Most Merciful.

As we believe the Quran is an authentic book from God and the last one revealed in the line of prophethood, thus we can fully confirm that Islam is not a manmade religion, but a religion that was sent down by God HIMself.

(Jesus' "defence"? For example)

Right, let me put here what I've found...

Here, Jesus introduce the subject of defense. If not then what else does the following statement means...

"When I sent you without purse, and scrip, and shoes, lacked ye anything?" And they said, "Nothing" Then said he unto them, "But now, he that hath no purse, let him take it, and likewise his bag; and he that hath no SWORD, let him sell his garment and buy one!"
(HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:35-36

And Jesus disciple responded prior before leaving Galilee...

". . . Lord, behold, here are two SWORDS." And he said unto them, "It is enough". (HOLY BIBLE) Luke 22:38

And this is a few verses after Jesus prayed (fell on his face).

"And, behold, one of those who were with Jesus stretched out his hand, and drew his SWORD, and struck a servant of the high priests, and cut off his ear." (HOLY BIBLE) Matthew 26:51

Isn't above shows Jesus does plan for his defence and verse 51 shows that one of the disciple did end up cutting one of the high priests ear.

Correct me if I am wrong, and my apology if this is disrespectful to you. In fact I am showing that Jesus is a very knowledgeable individual who is also a master tatician. I admire him for his skillful planning in his last moments before (muslim version - he is lifted up to heaven) ( Christian version - caught and crucified)

...

 

[Azure24]

Isn't above shows Jesus does plan for his defence and verse 51 shows that one of the disciple did end up cutting one of the high priests ear.
Correct me if I am wrong, and my apology if this is disrespectful to you. In fact I am showing that Jesus is a very knowledgeable individual who is also a master tatician. I admire him for his skillful planning in his last moments before (muslim version - he is lifted up to heaven) ( Christian version - caught and crucified)

...

No not really. Jesus did not tell them to attack any one with the swords in fact after one of the desciples attacks one of the high preists with the sword in Luke22:51 Jesus answers by saying "Suffer ye thus far." it then says 'he touched his ear (high Preist), and healed him'.
Also in the moment in John18:11 Jesus says to Peter (who is mentioned as the one who uses the sword) "Put up thy sword into the sheath: the cup which my Father hath given me, shall i not drink it?"
And finally in Matthew26:52 in the ame part he Jesus said "Put up thy sword into his place: for all they that take the sword shall perish with the sword".
Lets leave it there. This can go on and on forever.

 

[Light]

Lets leave it there. This can go on and on forever.

Sure, no problem. Hope the answers shows that I don't intend to disrespect or offend Christianity or you. Yes it can go on forever, because it is something both you and I differed in our believe in God.

End of the day, the following sura fits this situation:

109.001 PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!
109.002 PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;
109.003 PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.
109.004 PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.
109.005 PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.
109.006 PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

And it also reminds me of the following sura:

103.001 PICKTHAL: By the declining day,
103.002 PICKTHAL: Lo! man is a state of loss,
103.003 PICKTHAL: Save those who believe and do good works, and exhort one another to truth and exhort one another to endurance.

To surmise, sura 109 is a reminder for both of us of our difference. Thus, you can carry on believing in God the way you did and I believe in the way I am. The truth shall come out in the day of Judgement. Praise to Allah, bear withness that the message has been conveyed.

While sura 103 reminds us that indeed we are in the state of loss for every seconds of our life, unless we do good works and enjoin each other on truth and patience. Just so we realise that time on this earth is so short and there is a lot we could do the help ourself and others from the hellfire. May Allah accept our prayers, amiin.


peace.

 

[cyberpi]

Light,
Not taking sides on your conversation but I'd really hate to be the one to convict myself before God (swt) by judging and calling anyone a disbeliever in God (swt) from as little as a conversation on a web page. Faith and good deeds are not measured by a conversation. If the person claims to be a Jew or Christian then the Qur'an directly commands a Muslim to say the exact opposite of what you've just said. The exact opposite. (29:46, Surat 109) How is that possible? I suggest that your mistake is to confuse a believer in God (swt) with a believer in your words... two different things entirely.

Some verses for you to consider:

29:46
Yusufali: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
Pickthal: And argue not with the People of the Scripture unless it be in (a way) that is better, save with such of them as do wrong; and say: We believe in that which hath been revealed unto us and revealed unto you; our Allah and your Allah is One, and unto Him we surrender.
Shakir: And do not dispute with the followers of the Book except by what is best, except those of them who act unjustly, and say: We believe in that which has been revealed to us and revealed to you, and our Allah and your Allah is One, and to Him do we submit.
Khalifa: Do not argue with the people of the scripture (Jews, Christians, and Muslims) except in the nicest possible manner - unless they transgress - and say, "We believe in what was revealed to us and in what was revealed to you, and our god and your god is one and the same; to Him we are submitters."

5:69
Yusufali: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Pickthal: Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Shakir: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
Khalifa: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

If you claim that a person's Faith is measured by whether or not they state the Shahadah, then I advise you to study the following verse.

3:67
Yusufali: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
Pickthal: Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Shakir: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.
Khalifa: Abraham was neither Jewish, nor Christian; he was a monotheist submitter. He never was an idol worshiper.

Peace be to you both.

 

[Light]

Cyberpi,

Bismillai Rahman Nir Rahimm... In the name of God most Merciful most Compassionate.
I start this post with the above, that was commanded to all Muslims. Say the name of Allah before you start on any work so that it will gain HIS blessing.

Light,
Not taking sides on your conversation but I'd really hate to be the one to convict myself before God (swt) by judging and calling anyone a disbeliever in God (swt) from as little as a conversation on a web page. Faith and good deeds are not measured by a conversation. If the person claims to be a Jew or Christian then the Qur'an directly commands a Muslim to say the exact opposite of what you've just said. The exact opposite. (29:46, Surat 109) How is that possible? I suggest that your mistake is to confuse a believer in God (swt) with a believer in your words... two different things entirely.

In my posts, I do not make judgement. It may appears so just because I include the verse of Sura Al-Kafiruun. This is to make people aware that indeed there are differences in our theology and the Quran teaches us to respect people of other faith. Thus, this Sura tells us that we have differences in the way we believe, practise and professing our faith. Although it may be to the same God.

Some verses for you to consider:
29:46
Yusufali: And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation), unless it be with those of them who inflict wrong (and injury): but say, "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you; Our Allah and your Allah is one; and it is to Him we bow (in Islam)."
...

Alhamdulillah, praise to Allah. You've bring forth this verse. This does not contradict to my earlier post. Reason being, if you're Christian or Jews, you have you own theology. We have our own, but yet we believe and worship the same God. However, the method of executing it are different.
In this verse "We believe in the revelation which has come down to us and in that which came down to you".
One have to ask what does this mean. Does this referred to the current Christian theology or is it the original revelation by God? For Muslims, we believe in the original revelation (and theology) from God that was revealed to Jesus (pbuh). Not the present one. Christian may claim the present one is the original revealed to Jesus (pbuh). I rest my case on that as it is their opinion. We have our own opinion.

Lets examine this verse further, "Our Allah and your Allah is one". This is telling us that Christian (and Jews) believe in the same God. However, the Christian theology - believing Holy Trinity and the salvation from the original Sin - as the base the Christian faith, Christianity is clearly rejected in Islam. God has declared in ayat 4:171 the absurdity of Trinity.

004.171
YUSUFALI: O People of the Book! Commit no excesses in your religion: Nor say of Allah aught but the truth. Christ Jesus the son of Mary was (no more than) a messenger of Allah, and His Word, which He bestowed on Mary, and a spirit proceeding from Him: so believe in Allah and His messengers. Say not "Trinity" : desist: it will be better for you: for Allah is one Allah: Glory be to Him: (far exalted is He) above having a son. To Him belong all things in the heavens and on earth. And enough is Allah as a Disposer of affairs.
PICKTHAL: O People of the Scripture! Do not exaggerate in your religion nor utter aught concerning Allah save the truth. The Messiah, Jesus son of Mary, was only a messenger of Allah, and His word which He conveyed unto Mary, and a spirit from Him. So believe in Allah and His messengers, and say not "Three" - Cease! (it is) better for you! - Allah is only One Allah. Far is it removed from His Transcendent Majesty that He should have a son. His is all that is in the heavens and all that is in the earth. And Allah is sufficient as Defender.
SHAKIR: O followers of the Book! do not exceed the limits in your religion, and do not speak (lies) against Allah, but (speak) the truth; the Messiah, Isa son of Marium is only a messenger of Allah and His Word which He communicated to Marium and a spirit from Him; believe therefore in Allah and His messengers, and say not, Three. Desist, it is better for you; Allah is only one Allah; far be It from His glory that He should have a son, whatever is in the heavens and whatever is in the earth is His, and Allah is sufficient for a Protector.

And again God say in Sura 005:073

005.073
YUSUFALI: They do blaspheme who say: Allah is one of three in a Trinity: for there is no god except One Allah. If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.
PICKTHAL: They surely disbelieve who say: Lo! Allah is the third of three; when there is no Allah save the One Allah. If they desist not from so saying a painful doom will fall on those of them who disbelieve.
SHAKIR: Certainly they disbelieve who say: Surely Allah is the third (person) of the three; and there is no god but the one Allah, and if they desist not from what they say, a painful chastisement shall befall those among them who disbelieve.

I can further confirm that Quran is the only book that mentioned Trinity explicitly. And it is something that God have declared as absurd and unacceptable. So, back to ayat 29:46, which says "And dispute ye not with the People of the Book, except with means better (than mere disputation)". It means that, don't dispute with the Christian and Jews except with something better. Something better must be the truth and we are obliged to tell the truth. If they dispel the truth, God further tells them in sura 4:171. Don't commit excesses in their religion (Christianity).
Sura 005:073 further warns them, "If they desist not from their word (of blasphemy), verily a grievous penalty will befall the blasphemers among them.".
Thus, who are we to desist God's command?

Right, back to your original post about judging or calling someone a disbelievers. It is not me who pass that judgement, but the Quran. And I am following what the Quran says. Thus, if someone rejects after all that was revealed to them, the best manner (in my opinion) so at to show them that Islam does not force people into submission, is sura Al-Kafiroon which I have post earlier.
In Sura Al-Kafiroon if I may extend on its meaning...

109.001 PICKTHAL: Say: O disbelievers!

This encompass all who do not believe in Islam. Islam is God choosen and perfected religion as stated in Sura 005 verse no 3. Let me say here PERFECTED religion. That is enough to say that ISLAM is the final religion that GOD has perfected through his Last Prophet Muhammad (pbuh). So in matter of fact, this is saying that no other religion will be accepted from the time this verse is revealed until the end of time. Some people might feel awkward to say this and some may come out with concession to make it sound nice to non-Muslims, but this is the truth based on the verses in Quran. You may have you own opinion and I have mine. That brings us to the second verse.

109.002 PICKTHAL: I worship not that which ye worship;

By this verse, God is telling us to be firm in our believe. Thus, there is no concession/diversion on our way of worshipping HIM. The theology, practices and law is clearly defined for us to follow in our daily life. The core values, doesn't change since it was revealed. So we don't divert nor do we worship what you worship.

109.003 PICKTHAL: Nor worship ye that which I worship.

This clearly state that Christian or Jews or any other religion will not worship what we worship. Let's put this frankly, Christian prayed using Jesus as an intermediary. Jesus is called upon as the Son of God at the end of their prayer. We don't do that nor will be ever do that - else we apostate from Islam - nauzubillah (Allah forbid). We reverred Jesus as a prophet - one of the greatest prophet.

109.004 PICKTHAL: And I shall not worship that which ye worship.

This is talking about present and future. Which states that the Islamic doctorine is well established and cannot be altered. Such that it cannot be amended to be similar to Christian, Jews or other religion.

109.005 PICKTHAL: Nor will ye worship that which I worship.

Vice versa. If the other religion amended their theology and began to worship like Muslims and follow the same Islamic article of faith. They are Muslims! Alhamdulillah.

109.006 PICKTHAL: Unto you your religion, and unto me my religion.

This is a clear indication that you have your own way and I have mine. Similarly, you have your way of describing your non-believers (eg. "No one goes to the Father except via me" - the most famous verse from the Bible). So we too have our own way in describing our non-believers. It is true that, Faith and good deeds are not measured by a conversation. However, conversation is a result of conscious thinking of the individual that was influenced by their interaction to the outside world. In short, conversation goes a long way in describing someone believe and thought.

5:69
Yusufali: Those who believe (in the Qur'an), those who follow the Jewish (scriptures), and the Sabians and the Christians,- any who believe in Allah and the Last Day, and work righteousness,- on them shall be no fear, nor shall they grieve.
Pickthal: Lo! those who believe, and those who are Jews, and Sabaeans, and Christians - Whosoever believeth in Allah and the Last Day and doeth right - there shall no fear come upon them neither shall they grieve.
Shakir: Surely those who believe and those who are Jews and the Sabians and the Christians whoever believes in Allah and the last day and does good-- they shall have no fear nor shall they grieve.
Khalifa: Surely, those who believe, those who are Jewish, the converts, and the Christians; any of them who (1) believe in GOD and (2) believe in the Last Day, and (3) lead a righteous life, have nothing to fear, nor will they grieve.

This verse is perfectly fine and has no contradition. It is the individual understanding of it is flawed. When the Quran says those who believe in the Quran, follow the Jewish scriptures etc. What is the Quran is saying exactly? It is referring to the original scriptures that God revealed to Moses (pbuh), David (pbuh) and Jesus (pbuh). Not the current version of the text which contains amongst other things words from historian and does contain obscenity. It has also gone through a number of editions.
Furthermore, if we were to read this verse in conjunction to verse 004:171 and 005:073. This shows the clear picture. The christian have to only renouce trinity and they shall not fear for their fate in judgement day. That's all. Dear Muslims, please correct me if I am wrong in this one.

If you claim that a person's Faith is measured by whether or not they state the Shahadah, then I advise you to study the following verse.

By someone saying the Shahadah, he knows that he has reverted to the natural religion (Islam). Thus, well aware of the duties encompass within it. Therefore, this is one of the first yardstick in measuring one's faith.

3:67
Yusufali: Abraham was not a Jew nor yet a Christian; but he was true in Faith, and bowed his will to Allah's (Which is Islam), and he joined not gods with Allah.
Pickthal: Abraham was not a Jew, nor yet a Christian; but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), and he was not of the idolaters.
Shakir: Ibrahim was not a Jew nor a Christian but he was (an) upright (man), a Muslim, and he was not one of the polytheists.
Khalifa: Abraham was neither Jewish, nor Christian; he was a monotheist submitter. He never was an idol worshiper.

"and bowed his will to Allah's" - the same way Muslim do in our prayer. Abraham is a Muslim!
"he joined not gods with Allah" - clear indication that Abraham is a Muslim (submit to the wills of Allah). Also, another rejection to the trinity.
And the ayat didn't say Abraham is not a Muslim, it just say Abraham is not Jews nor Christian. "but he was an upright man who had surrendered (to Allah), " - surrendered to Allah - the basis of the Islamic faith - where we surendered to the will of Allah. Similar? Something to ponder!

Thus, in Abraham time, he have proclaim the following:

006.079
YUSUFALI: "For me, I have set my face, firmly and truly, towards Him Who created the heavens and the earth, and never shall I give partners to Allah."
PICKTHAL: Lo! I have turned my face toward Him Who created the heavens and the earth, as one by nature upright, and I am not of the idolaters.
SHAKIR: Surely I have turned myself, being upright, wholly to Him Who originated the heavens and the earth, and I am not of the polytheists.

That is Shahadah. Proclamation of faith is a shahadah.
"never shall I give partners to Allah." - no partners? - isn't that shahadah - I bear withness there is not gods but Allah.
The difference for us of this period is we also witness that Muhammad (pbuh) is a Messenger of God - not Son, God or any such things. This second witnessing is to ensure that we get our understanding right about Muhammad (pbuh).

Alhamdulillah, my purpose of this post is not to belittle other faith. But merely to show the truth and fact on Islam. In my earlier post I include Sura Asr' as a reminder to us all. A good reminder which if we ponder deeply is a good news and a warning for all of us. Use our time in this world wisely and take the opportunity God gives us to to HIS will. Worship him as he commanded and keep asking questions to seek truth. Insyallah, Allah permit, we will be saved from the permanent torment of the Hellfire.

Peace be to you both.

And you too...

I would like to close with wallahu Alam - and Allah knows best. If the above have erred, is purely my own doing, forgive me. If there is truth, verily it is from Allah.

Ma-a-salama (with peace)

 

[Zaakir]

can i just say...the Quran and Islam does have an answer for everything, from hair growth, to cleen teeth, to walking, eating, drinkin, even urinating, going on a journey, how to sleep, how to sit,when to sleep, as a former christian, i know taht christianity doesnt give any comments about any of these things, which makes it a beleif, and tahts it...where as Islam is not just a beleif its a way of life, to use every minute of every day, whereas christianity, from what i remember is just a sunday thing

 

[aburaees]

can i just say...the Quran and Islam does have an answer for everything, from hair growth, to cleen teeth, to walking, eating, drinkin, even urinating, going on a journey, how to sleep, how to sit,when to sleep, as a former christian, i know taht christianity doesnt give any comments about any of these things, which makes it a beleif, and tahts it...where as Islam is not just a beleif its a way of life, to use every minute of every day, whereas christianity, from what i remember is just a sunday thing

To be fair to the Christians, Christianity is CERTAINLY NOT just a sunday thing. A truly practicing Christian remembers his Lord every minute of every day just as truly practicing Muslims do.
Though they may not have specific rules on how to brush their teeth, or use the toilet, they have general rules which govern every minute of their life.
What you say about Christianity being a sunday thing... can also be said of Islam when a lot of Muslims treat their religion as just a "friday thing", or just a "ramadan thing".


.

 

[Zaakir]

i dint meen the sunday thing..i used to go church other days aswell as sunday, i was actually going to write in that i didnt meen that...but as for what you said about having general rules to govern life...where?i was christian...and know quite a lot about the religion...coming from strict roots

 

[aburaees]

i dint meen the sunday thing..i used to go church other days aswell as sunday, i was actually going to write in that i didnt meen that...but as for what you said about having general rules to govern life...where?i was christian...and know quite a lot about the religion...coming from strict roots

One example of a general rule would be that of pacifism, I'm sure you remember what was said about turning the other cheek or letting the thief take your under-garment along with your outer-garment.
While I don't personally subscribe to this type of rule, I acknowledge that there are a lot of very faithful Christians who wouldn't even resist an attack or a robbery. I've heard of Christians who were put to death because the refused to participate in a "war effort".

Another general rule would be that of refraining from abusive/vulgar speech, as per the teaching "it's not what goes into the mouth that defiles a man, but what comes out from the mouth that defiles a man". In this there is also the permission to eat what one likes, with the understanding that speaking a bad word is more likely to debase man's soul than eating a bad food.

Of course, I'm not saying that I subscribe exactly to these rules, but I know Christians that are mindful of them all day and every day. And this is done in constant remembrance of God.

.

 

[Zaakir]

coming from an age group where people dont really care about religion, i have never known any christians my age who would follow anything you have said...that may make me biased, but these are the only christians i know...going to primary school with about 790 catholics and high school, with 100 christians in my year, i honestly could count on 2 hands out od all them people taht went to church regularly and follow these rules...so out of peopel taht i know i dont know anyone who follows the daily rules you stated...i understand that people might, but just noone that i have ever known...i see where your coming from in the daily rules...buit i was more refering to things like sneezing, going to the toilet,reading the holt books, eating, drinking etc, and i was trying to move over a point that islam is a way of life...what do you follow...becasue a lot of your islaimc beleifs tend to be different than mine...which being new, i dont get...i dont get an impression you try and defend islam to its purity eg, you say the Quran is altered?does this mean you question what Allah s.w.t has told us?..im not asking that in a sarcastic way...i truly do not understand a word you say...and dont agree

 

[aburaees]

coming from an age group where people dont really care about religion, i have never known any christians my age who would follow anything you have said...that may make me biased, but these are the only christians i know...going to primary school with about 790 catholics and high school, with 100 christians in my year, i honestly could count on 2 hands out od all them people taht went to church regularly and follow these rules...so out of peopel taht i know i dont know anyone who follows the daily rules you stated...i understand that people might, but just noone that i have ever known...i see where your coming from in the daily rules...buit i was more refering to things like sneezing, going to the toilet,reading the holt books, eating, drinking etc, and i was trying to move over a point that islam is a way of life...

I understand.

what do you follow...becasue a lot of your islaimc beleifs tend to be different than mine...which being new, i dont get...i dont get an impression you try and defend islam to its purity eg, you say the Quran is altered?does this mean you question what Allah s.w.t has told us?..im not asking that in a sarcastic way...i truly do not understand a word you say...and dont agree

I'm in a process of renovating my beliefs brother Zaakir. Three years ago I was a "Salafi" and would have been obliged to accept the Hadith record which claims that changes have occurred in the Qur'an... but I'm realising now that the Qur'an should be accusing the Hadiths and not the Hadiths accusing the Qur'an.

I also understand that Allah has preserved his word, but what this means is unclear to me at the moment. You can buy a Qur'an off Amazon which has verses missing (Rashad Khalifah's translation), so I'm thinking that Allah's preserving his word is something different to preventing people from publishing variants.

If you want to ask me about anything specific, feel free to pm me... I'd be glad to discuss.

.

 

[Zaakir]

i spent ages writing you something, but lost it!generally what I said was that…I don’t know what salafi is,..only know of hanafi…but I don’t really follow any school yet…most probably hanafi actually…and I seem to have mis judged you actually and wish you luck in what you do and hope that it just brings you closer to Allah s.w.t, but you have to be careful because there are many perversions from the truth as people want to gain power and status for themselves, and the shaytan doesn’t help, as he will try and make people leave the truth, so be careful where you research and who you speak to, and most of all ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and his whispers because he will try and make you fail.
The protection that Allah ahs given His word I perceive to be the original Arabic one and the Arabic copies, as I understand them to be the same, but translations will be different as they cannot compare or be translated properly from Arabic, but as I said also, some people will try and change some things to gain respect themselves. Many religions do this, a priest went to Africa and sold tickets in to heaven to get money, I hear that a sect of islam believes in another prophet after Muhammad s.a.w and another one..I think it might have been you that said this…?…that Isa a.s is dead…as for what you said about the hadiths…don’t different schools follow the different hadiths?I don’t know…do they, if so this could be directing to a certain school?if not, then why couldn’t the hadith be changed over time, as these came from what people heard, or what people heard what other people heard the prophet s.a.w say/do?I, coming into islam and seeing that every question has an answer, the most smallest of details, see that the religion and beliefs are perfect and clear and it is the true belief…so believe that the Quran is Allah s.w.t ‘s pure un altered word, obviously people will disagree because they want people to follow them…so be careful in what you do, and if you have any queations I have a lot of very knowledgeable friends who I can ask for you, or get you in touch with, because I would like you to find the right way in islam, and be happy with yourself, and increase your iman and see the beauty of there not being contradictions, which I do not find…inshaAllah you will work it all out, but remember please ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and guide you the right way, and I wish you all the best…

 

[aburaees]

i spent ages writing you something, but lost it!generally what I said was that…I don’t know what salafi is,..only know of hanafi…but I don’t really follow any school yet…most probably hanafi actually…

Salafis are Muslims who profess to be on the way of As-Salfus-Salih (the righteous predecessors). They believe that blindly following a school of thought is incorrect, that we should seek the evidences from the Qur'an and Sunnah before practicing an aspect of Islam. E.g. where to put your hands during prayer... Hanafis generally put their hands across their mid-section, Hanbalis generally put their hands much higher across the chest... Salafis will choose whichever of the two practices that is supported by a Hadith.
Salafis also profess to be the saved sect, the one sect (out of seventy-three sects) that will be saved whilst the others end up in jahannam.

and I seem to have mis judged you actually and wish you luck in what you do and hope that it just brings you closer to Allah s.w.t, but you have to be careful because there are many perversions from the truth as people want to gain power and status for themselves, and the shaytan doesn’t help, as he will try and make people leave the truth, so be careful where you research and who you speak to, and most of all ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and his whispers because he will try and make you fail.

I appreciate these kind words brother, barakAllahu feeka.

The protection that Allah ahs given His word I perceive to be the original Arabic one and the Arabic copies, as I understand them to be the same, but translations will be different as they cannot compare or be translated properly from Arabic, but as I said also, some people will try and change some things to gain respect themselves. Many religions do this, a priest went to Africa and sold tickets in to heaven to get money,

There are some who believe that Qur'an has been preserved by a mathematical code based on the number 19, though I'm sceptical about this as it requires verses 128 and 129 to be absent from Surah 9 for the calculations to work.

I hear that a sect of islam believes in another prophet after Muhammad s.a.w and another one..I think it might have been you that said this…?…that Isa a.s is dead…

There are some sects that claim prophets came after Rasulullah, differing in their interpretation of the meaning behind "seal of the prophets".

As for Isa, the Qur'an mentions his death but does not say WHEN. So you have some Muslims who say that he has already died (some time after being rescued from crucifixion), and others who say that he will die sometime in the future (after his return from being taken up into heaven).

as for what you said about the hadiths…don’t different schools follow the different hadiths?I don’t know…do they, if so this could be directing to a certain school?if not, then why couldn’t the hadith be changed over time, as these came from what people heard, or what people heard what other people heard the prophet s.a.w say/do?

Generally speaking Hanafis, Malikis, Shafiis, Hanbalis, and Salafis don't reject any of the Hadiths of As-Sahih Sittah (the six authentic collections), namely Bukhari, Muslim, Dawud, Ahmad, and the other two I can't remember.

Some of the schools have different practices because their founders hadn't come across certain Hadiths yet. Imam Abu Haneefah might have prayed a certain way unaware that there was a Hadith that taught a different method. His students then discover the Hadith, and some change their practice to conform to the Hadith whilst others preferred to continue doing things the way their Imam did.

When Bukhari collected Hadiths he found over 300,000 of them... He then felt that only 2,230 of them were absolutely genuine. So there is no doubt that there were false Hadiths floating around. I'm inclined to believe that Bukhari, as good as his intentions were, could not have possibly guaranteed that he had managed to weed out all the false Hadiths. And it is certainly not an article of faith to believe that Bukhari's collection is perfect.

I, coming into islam and seeing that every question has an answer, the most smallest of details, see that the religion and beliefs are perfect and clear and it is the true belief…so believe that the Quran is Allah s.w.t ‘s pure un altered word, obviously people will disagree because they want people to follow them…so be careful in what you do, and if you have any queations I have a lot of very knowledgeable friends who I can ask for you, or get you in touch with, because I would like you to find the right way in islam, and be happy with yourself, and increase your iman and see the beauty of there not being contradictions, which I do not find…inshaAllah you will work it all out, but remember please ask Allah s.w.t to protect you from the shaytan and guide you the right way, and I wish you all the best…

Again, thank you for your kind words. I sincerely hope that you continue to find happiness in Islam. As-Salaamu 'Aleikum wa Rahmatullahi wa Barakatuhu.


.

 

[Azure24]

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?
And also talking about Christians you know doesn't speak for all Christians. For example (I AM NOT STARTING TROUBLE ONLY AN EXAMPLE) some people (westeners mainly)would see the majority of Muslims being terrorists, does that mean they all are? No!

 

[Light]

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?

Islam is not just a religion. It is a way of life. God knows what is best for you as HE created us. Thus, isn't is appropriate that God tells us how to brush our teeth? So that we don't do something stupid to perform such a simple cleaning task. I have read somewhere that the ancient Greeks used to use urine to whiten their teeth. Tell me if that is clean? Although it may whiten the teeth according to the Greeks, it is still incomprehensible to learn that such a great civilisation uses urine to clean the part that is the gate into our body. Urine contains apart from anything unwanted material that the body rejects.

And also talking about Christians you know doesn't speak for all Christians. For example (I AM NOT STARTING TROUBLE ONLY AN EXAMPLE) some people (westeners mainly)would see the majority of Muslims being terrorists, does that mean they all are? No!

I agree with you, small sect of the faith does not represent everybody. Similarly, I would refrain from stereotyping Christians or Jews.

 

[aburaees]

Ok, i'm not to offend anyone here (i'm not islamic) but the religion tells people how to brush their teeth and go to the toilet? Tell me please if i have misread this but surely this is more like some kind of dictatorship? Telling people how to brush their teeth isn't that going too far?

In Islam cleanliness is part of the religion. Muslims have been advised to rinse their mouth after drinking milk, brushing their teeth before prayer (if their breath is offensive), proper dispoal of human waste, not to urinate on ourselves, to wash our private parts after using them, etc. These things seem sensible to me. Of course, for a people living in a desert with no existing civilization... Someone needed to introduce the concept of cleanliness, though I'm not saying the bedouins were filthy or anything.

 

[Zaakir]

dictatorship?....well Allah is our dictator, He tells us what to do in every aspect of life, that is best for us...one major one, we cant drink alcohol...we know nowadays that alcohol causes many problems in the body..
aburaees...seems interesting about salafi....that’s the way i think it should be, but i had a talk with an educated brother in the masjid last week, who told me that the schools left, the four main ones, use both hadith and Quran, but different hadith used, as many that say different thing, but these opinions, do come from the hadith and Quran, so they cant be wrong really, and they are only on some small issues like where to place the hands in salah, which can not be said to be a change in beliefs can it, as long as we accept the Quran and the shahada, and he Islamic laws and 5 pillars and do our best, small matters cant be that much of an issue, one I had a problem with, is that I heard in hanafi, the imam recites Quran, and the congregation don’t, even in silent prayer, now there are many hadith, one states the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited, in the same hadith I was told its said that the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited…unless the imam recites it, which he will…I think regarding the 4 schools, they differ in small issues right?, not major issues that are faith testing, so do what you feel right, but I wouldn’t regard myself as following a school. I follow Islam and the way of the prophet s.a.w and am muslim, in submission to Allah, where I place my hands, how I recite is upto ourselves I feel, or how I have been taught and feel comfortable doing it, it doesn’t change my belief, or make me part of a school, as they are small matters…do you get me?I know I have been repetitive, but I just tryin to get my view across if you get me…lol…but yeah…the schools don’t decide upon your faith, and I don’t think you have to follow a set one do you, or could you mix between two, or three?because the prophet s.a.w is accounted doing it a couple of ways? Would be good to hear from you on this actually

 

[aburaees]

aburaees...seems interesting about salafi....that’s the way i think it should be,

Yes it does sound that way doesn't it. That we should take what is true and correct from the Qur'an and the Sunnah, that is the intention of the Salafi manhaj. Interestingly a person can be a Hanafi Salafi, a Hanbali Salafi, etc. It's ok (from Salafi Pov) to go by a school of thought (say Hanafi for example) as long as you're willing to change your practice when presented with a more correct example from the Qur'an or Sunnah.

but i had a talk with an educated brother in the masjid last week, who told me that the schools left, the four main ones, use both hadith and Quran, but different hadith used, as many that say different thing, but these opinions, do come from the hadith and Quran, so they cant be wrong really, and they are only on some small issues like where to place the hands in salah, which can not be said to be a change in beliefs can it,

Yeah, the four main Sunni schools don't differ in articles of faith and the five pillars. As you said, it's about basing their practices on different Hadiths as they became available. Did you know that Imam abu Haneefah taught Imam Shafii, who then taught Imam Malik, who then taught Imam Ahmad ibn Hanbal? Imam Ahmad would have most likely had access to a larger collection of Hadiths than his predecessors did, so some would say that he was in a position to be able to improve on what was passed down to him by the others.

as long as we accept the Quran and the shahada, and he Islamic laws and 5 pillars and do our best, small matters cant be that much of an issue,

That's how I feel, but it's amazing how small matters can be so divisive in the world these days.

one I had a problem with, is that I heard in hanafi, the imam recites Quran, and the congregation don’t, even in silent prayer, now there are many hadith, one states the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited, in the same hadith I was told its said that the salah is not accepted unless the opening is recited…unless the imam recites it, which he will…I think

Yeah I came across that one. Some say that everyone should be reciting at least al Fatihah, or their prayer will be invalid... then others say that only the Imam should recite, and that reciting behind the Imam invalidates the prayer.

regarding the 4 schools, they differ in small issues right?, not major issues that are faith testing, so do what you feel right, but I wouldn’t regard myself as following a school.

Yeah, small issues like whether we can make wudu with our socks on, whether we can pray with our shoes on, where to put our hands. But all the articles of faith are still the same - these are pretty much universal.

I follow Islam and the way of the prophet s.a.w and am muslim, in submission to Allah, where I place my hands, how I recite is upto ourselves I feel, or how I have been taught and feel comfortable doing it, it doesn’t change my belief, or make me part of a school, as they are small matters…do you get me?

Yes, I get you brother.

I know I have been repetitive, but I just tryin to get my view across if you get me…lol…but yeah…the schools don’t decide upon your faith, and I don’t think you have to follow a set one do you, or could you mix between two, or three?because the prophet s.a.w is accounted doing it a couple of ways? Would be good to hear from you on this actually

Some people would strongly object to mixing aspects of the different schools. One brother told me that doing this would be the same as making up my own religion. But I say we should take what is "true" and "correct" from every school... including from Shia Ithna Ashari, and from the Sufi tariqas.

The articles of faith, and the 5 pillars are the unifying "core" of Islam. Only Satan benefits from us arguing over the rest.

.

 

[Admiral_HangTuah]

Last night, I watched a documentary on National Geographic titled The Rival of Jesus. It is the secret bible week and you can get good information and knowledge about Christianity from the programme aired until 6th of May. As muslim, I would like to know how christians understand their religion and what did Islam teach us about Prophet Isa a.s. (or Jesus?).

One of the most interesting facts that I discovered after watching "The Gospel of Judas" was that Christianity had 32 gospels during 100 - 200 AD but after 500 AD, they only selected and identified 4 gospels for the New Testament. Even, the researches said that perhaps they used to have more than 32 gospels. The Original Bible (written by the apostles), in Islam is called "Injil" which rendered in English as "evangel" means "good news". This shows how true the fact that the Gospel of the New Testament has been corrupted over the time as the Emperor, Constantine of Rome who had embraced Christian put altogether the Christianity and old Roman religions as one religion called their own Christianity.

Another fact that we must know is that all Roman emperors (Cesars) years before the revelation of Christianity by Jesus had proclaimed themselves as The Son of Gods and which now researchers believe that the Trinity in Christianity has been adopted from the Roman culture. If this is true, then there are so many other elements in this religion that has been adopted or copied from the old Roman religion i.e. worship idols etc.

The fact that Muslim, Christian and Jew are claiming Jerussalem as their Holy Land is not astonishing. If you read and know the history of mankind, you will understand why. For the fact that Islam is the last religion revealed to mankind through a Prophet p.b.u.h. is another important historical fact that human being should take into consideration before believing in a religion. If you master the history of Islam, and then learn the history of Christian either written in Islamic manuscript or ancient roman manuscript, or the modern research, you will see the truth in Islam and I'm saying this with no bias. It is so important even when you learn the history of old Chinese dynasty long time ago, you will see the miracle of Islam. Remember that 1400 years ago, Prophet Muhammad s.a.w. has asked us to learn even if we have to learn it from Chinese? Based on history, the scientist and historian discovered that the Chinese are the first to find how to invent "gun powder" hundred years before the European know how to sail.

I'm going to read and do more research to understand the mystery of earth, stars and humankind. God created us to worship Him and not to be devided and kill each other. What made Muslim now backward and left behind is not the religion itself, but because of the conspiracy and propaganda. Naturally, human being has ego and they set up a lot of thing including cultures to make sure that they win. Then they fight each other and even killing, to prove that they are right.

The concept that Islam is offering peace has been neglegted, always. We have to start thinking positively as the mankind is facing another threat, which is called "the end of the world". Lets cross our fingers, and ask help from our God.

Take care and see you guys again soon.