Universal Salvation?

China Cat Sunflower said:
My only criticism of those Christians liberal enough to have relieved themselves of the notion of a divinely ordained everlasting torment is that they haven't applied the same logic to the notion of heaven. I mean, read Revelation's description of the heavenly city and tell me you don't think it's entirely symbolic and allegorical. Then tell me what else you base a literal concept of heaven on. (not you, I mean anyone)
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You're right. I'm an agnostic about the after-life, but I'm reckoning on there not being one. If there is I'll be pleasantly (I hope) surprised. I regard the Kingdom of God as a state of mind - or spirit, to be more precise. That's not to say you can get there by concentrating hard or by secret knowledge.:eek: It's more a case of knowing how loved you are and letting that love lead you where it will.
 
Virtual_Cliff said:
You're right. I'm an agnostic about the after-life, but I'm reckoning on there not being one. If there is I'll be pleasantly (I hope) surprised. I regard the Kingdom of God as a state of mind - or spirit, to be more precise. That's not to say you can get there by concentrating hard or by secret knowledge.:eek: It's more a case of knowing how loved you are and letting that love lead you where it will.
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What is your reckoning, VC?

I really cannot fathom just not existing. I suppose it would be like falling asleep, but not ever waking up.

I know, I didn't exist before I was born, so there was no "me" to contemplate anything in the past. But after having already experiencing a conscience and a conscious mind for the short time I've been around, it would be mind boggling for me not to go on, ya know? Some people are ok with this. One thing's for sure, one way or we'll find out. There's no way around it.
 
Dondi said:
One thing's for sure, one way or we'll find out. There's no way around it.
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Or maybe we won't. We'll just stop being. No more worries. No more joys. No more responsibilities. Nothing.

The thing is, we won't know that we don't know because we will no longer be. We won't even care that we never found out because we no longer are.

All of this speculation is a game, something with which to occupy our brain. This brief space of consciousness is ours to enjoy or waste. But it's given to us and will be taken from us.

Like Virtual Cliff says, if we go on we will be pleasantly surpised.

Virtual Cliff, I really like what you said about trusting Love to guide us. That was just what I needed right now.
 
True, Ruby. We wouldn't know if that's all she wrote. But I do agree with you both about Love. If there was anything we could take with us, it's that. So, Keep on Lovin'!!
 
RubySera_Martin said:
Quote:
Originally Posted by wil
"I just got back from a church retreat where we were learning to be more judgemental" - Homer Simpson


As in self-critical???
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This is a quote from an irreverent TV cartoon. I think it actually fits quite often though....

Love your thought of makng it right.
 
Elvendon said:
Something I have been thinking about for a long time is Apocatastasis - that is, universal salvation. Originally posited over a thousand years ago by Origen, a greek early church scholar, and later carried on by many thinkers from Saint Gregory of Nyssa to Julian of Norwich, it teaches that all moral agents will be ultimately saved - though evil individuals will be punished for an undefined length of time - even the sourest, most evil devil will return to God.

This teaching was declared anathema by the Synod of Constantinople in 543. My question is, what do other posters here think about this teaching? Do you think it should be more readily accepted by modern Christians or do you believe there is a better justification for eternal punishment?

Blessed be the Holy Three

Elvendon
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Have you read the Apocalypse of Peter? In that it says Peter asked Jesus why God let's people suffer for an eternity, and Jesus says it's a secret but eventualy everybody gets let out. Besides an eternity can only exists within time, who's to say God will allow time to last forever? There will be an end anyway.

But I don't think Fallen Angels will get salvation. Not only are we made in God's image (unlike Angels), humans live disconnected from God, due to sin, here on earth. It is our decision to believe in God based on faith. Whereas angels live directly in God's presence, so they don't need faith in God, they have knowledge of God and realy no reason at all to not do what he says.

Plus, we are the most beloved of all creation, which is why God sent his Son to suffer our punishment so we can be with Him in Heaven; not the dark angels tricking us into disobeying Him.
 
Dondi said:
What is your reckoning, VC?

I really cannot fathom just not existing. I suppose it would be like falling asleep, but not ever waking up.
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It's easier for me now that I've known people who've died. I was there when my mother passed away. It was the saddest and one of the most beautiful days of my life. So deep and peaceful. The ripples from my mother's kindness continue to spread so she has in a small way changed the course of creation and her presence will still be felt when I am gone. That is immortality.

I suppose it works the same for those who leave a bad legacy, but I leave that in the hands of God to redeem.
 
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