What is "morality"?

[CSharp]

Cheer up, my good man, CSharp.

At least we are enjoying our simple pleasure of message exchange with the blessing of internet technology.

If it is any consolation to you, for being big and consuming extravagantly then the U.S. is slated for extinction like the dinosaurs.

My hope and prayer is however that it will be around for a longer time, and grow kinder and gentler as it continues in its military might. Is that a fool's wish? I don't think so; there are good men in the U.S., many.

If the end is coming to mankind, we now here must delay it as far as possible. In the meantime, say some thanks to the God above, for His indulgence allowing you and me to still engage in this simple pleasure of internet exchange.

Best regards,

That's a lovely sentiment but I must admit, I'm a little hurt that you think me so dense that you would need to repeat your remark regarding "us" enjoying "our simple pleasure of message exchange" and the "blessing" of the internet. I understood you, quite clearly, the first time.

You are right, of course. I have internet access and have even been known to purchase items at Walmart and so, naturally, this automatically invalidates anything I might say on this particular subject.

I'm not very good at this type of phony exchange so I hope you'll forgive me while I learn the ropes.

One thing I would like to know is what it was, exactly, that offended you about my post.

 

[CSharp]

Cheer up, my good man, CSharp.

I neglected to say that I'm not a man. I am not offended when it is assumed I am a man, but I am curious as to why.

 

[bob x]

I neglected to say that I'm not a man. I am not offended when it is assumed I am a man, but I am curious as to why.

Because you're capable of rational thought?

 

[Vajradhara]

Namaste csharp,

thanks for the post.

in my opinion, a better explanation of the Anthropic Principle can be found here:

http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.html

under the lecture called Quantum Cosmology, M-Theory and the Anthropic Principle.

 

[CSharp]

Because you're capable of rational thought?

ROFL! Come on, girls, LET'S GET HIM!!!

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Cant imaginge any offense

That's a lovely sentiment but I must admit, I'm a little hurt that you think me so dense that you would need to repeat your remark regarding "us" enjoying "our simple pleasure of message exchange" and the "blessing" of the internet. I understood you, quite clearly, the first time.

You are right, of course. I have internet access and have even been known to purchase items at Walmart and so, naturally, this automatically invalidates anything I might say on this particular subject.

I'm not very good at this type of phony exchange so I hope you'll forgive me while I learn the ropes.

One thing I would like to know is what it was, exactly, that offended you about my post.

I can't imagine any offense in your posts, CSharp.

But there are always invitations in posts -- that's the way I see them --here for me to enter also my own opinions.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[CSharp]

Namaste csharp,

thanks for the post.

in my opinion, a better explanation of the Anthropic Principle can be found here:

http://www.hawking.org.uk/lectures/lindex.html

under the lecture called Quantum Cosmology, M-Theory and the Anthropic Principle.

Thank you Vajradhara.

I find your name kind of appropriate in a thread mentioning Professor Hawking.

I think his achievements are the result of a search for an explanation of what is as opposed to the more popular search for support of what is believed. No truth can ruin him because he is not confined to belief.

The best scientist knows the assumptions underlying his work are just that. Assumptions. The best scientist is wide open to discovery. Which, in my opinion, is what science is all about. Or was all about.

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

I am a worshipper of women.

I neglected to say that I'm not a man. I am not offended when it is assumed I am a man, but I am curious as to why.

Are you a woman, CSharp? Sorry for the mistake.

I practically worship women, because they are the ones who bring mankind into this world, raise them for life, take care of them, attend to them in their last hours, and bury them properly.

And women are a sorce of delights and pleasures and services.

But I love them for everything they represent like my mother, and my wife, and my sisters, and my daughter, and my aunts, and my grandmothers.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[CSharp]

I can't imagine any offense in your posts, CSharp.

But there are always invitations in posts -- that's the way I see them --here for me to enter also my own opinions.

Susma Rio Sep

Thank you for responding.

I'm really more interested in the logic on which you base your opinions. If you disagree with me, tell me where and how I went wrong in my thought process.

I can understand wishing things weren't as they appear to be, but what is accomplished by refusing to look at them? Or talk about them?

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Like cuisine and hairdo

Thank you for responding.

I'm really more interested in the logic on which you base your opinions. If you disagree with me, tell me where and how I went wrong in my thought process.

I can understand wishing things weren't as they appear to be, but what is accomplished by refusing to look at them? Or talk about them?

Some things are beyond logic, the way I see them, specially in matters of religion, and of course, taste. In many instances my opinions are based on my upbringing and inured background of religion, of social habits in my own ethnic or cultural or academic or recreation group, or on pure biases which I always try to moderate when I know them to be unfair and even unkind to other peoples.

But I want you to know that I respect other people's views and tastes and specially their religious or irreligious or a-religious preferences.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[CSharp]

Some things are beyond logic, the way I see them, specially in matters of religion, and of course, taste. In many instances my opinions are based on my upbringing and inured background of religion, of social habits in my own ethnic or cultural or academic or recreation group, or on pure biases which I always try to moderate when I know them to be unfair and even unkind to other peoples.

But I want you to know that I respect other people's views and tastes and specially their religious or irreligious or a-religious preferences.

Susma Rio Sep

I understand what you're trying to say. Or not to say, as the case may be.

So tell me, what does your background, upbringing etc., etc., tell you morality is? (Excuse the grammer)

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Search the Scriptures i.e., forums.

I understand what you're trying to say. Or not to say, as the case may be.

So tell me, what does your background, upbringing etc., etc., tell you morality is? (Excuse the grammer)

Dear CSharp:

I wished I could talk here about what for me is morality. I might talk about it again in another post when I feel the impulse to do so. Right now I don't have the zest. And I can't write without that push from the muses. Do you have similar experiences.

I think I have said my piece about morality in various posts in the forums here. May I impose upon your time and interest to use the search function of this website to look up my posts or my contributions on what is morality.

Best regards,

Susma Rio Sep

 

[CSharp]

Dear CSharp:

I wished I could talk here about what for me is morality. I might talk about it again in another post when I feel the impulse to do so. Right now I don't have the zest. And I can't write without that push from the muses. Do you have similar experiences.

If I have muses, they are unrelenting. Writing is simply thinking "out loud" for me. That's why I say that what I write is not what I believe, but rather where I happen to be in my thought processes on that particular subject.

I think I have said my piece about morality in various posts in the forums here. May I impose upon your time and interest to use the search function of this website to look up my posts or my contributions on what is morality.

Best regards,

Susma Rio Sep

I have done as you suggested.

Is it your intention to convey that you believe morality to be what the Catholic Church says it is? And/or that your only measure of what is and isn't moral is what you've been taught? Have you never sought to understand such things yourself?

And please, don't assume I am criticizing such things. These are genuine questions. It has simply never occurred to me to ask these questions before. I have never had a dialogue with a Catholic that brought such questions to mind. If you don't wish to answer, simply don't answer.

It may help you to know that I am not asking if you've ever questioned the validity of what you believe but, rather, if you've ever sought to understand why something you've been taught might be right and true. (Assuming you believe that the morality you've been taught is right.) Two entirely different things.

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

I am a postgraduate Catholic.

If I have muses, they are unrelenting. Writing is simply thinking "out loud" for me. That's why I say that what I write is not what I believe, but rather where I happen to be in my thought processes on that particular subject.


I have done as you suggested.

Is it your intention to convey that you believe morality to be what the Catholic Church says it is? And/or that your only measure of what is and isn't moral is what you've been taught? Have you never sought to understand such things yourself?

And please, don't assume I am criticizing such things. These are genuine questions. It has simply never occurred to me to ask these questions before. I have never had a dialogue with a Catholic that brought such questions to mind. If you don't wish to answer, simply don't answer.

It may help you to know that I am not asking if you've ever questioned the validity of what you believe but, rather, if you've ever sought to understand why something you've been taught might be right and true. (Assuming you believe that the morality you've been taught is right.) Two entirely different things.

I used to hold that view when I was a devout Catholic, that what is morality is what the Catholic Church teaches. But no longer.

Do you have any excerpts from my posts where I give you that impression that I still hold that view or duty of a faithful Catholic, that the Catholic Church is the institution in charge of morality?

No, I don't hold that view anymore. I guess I am a lapsed Catholic.

For a long time now I act often against Catholic morality, for example, practicing artificial contraception with my legally married wife. Another, I always succeed in paying less taxes than I know I should. Then also I lie whenever it does not do any harm, and I have to do it to save myself a lot of inconvenience, at least; but the Catholic church teaches that it is always immoral to lie.

Another immorality I do as often as the opportunity presents itself: when the supermarket makes a mistake in putting the wrong price, a lower one than the usual, on an item, I buy more than one unit of that item -- saying to myself that the supermarket also makes errors to my disadvantage.

No, I don't hold that the Catholic Church is in charge of morality, at least not mine.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[CSharp]

...

No, I don't hold that the Catholic Church is in charge of morality, at least not mine.

Susma Rio Sep

I didn't mean to imply that you thought the church was "in charge of morality". Let me try a different approach...

You said the following:

when the supermarket makes a mistake in putting the wrong price, a lower one than the usual, on an item, I buy more than one unit of that item -- saying to myself that the supermarket also makes errors to my disadvantage.

Obviously, you feel justified in taking advantage of a chance to "get even". But let's say that you're standing in the checkout line and the guy in front of you has 10 cans of the same thing. But when it is his turn, he says to the clerk "I really need these items but they've obviously been mismarked. Please check the price and charge me the correct amount."

Would you think this man's act was moral, or immoral?

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

...

Obviously, you feel justified in taking advantage of a chance to "get even". But let's say that you're standing in the checkout line and the guy in front of you has 10 cans of the same thing. But when it is his turn, he says to the clerk "I really need these items but they've obviously been mismarked. Please check the price and charge me the correct amount."

Would you think this man's act was moral, or immoral?

I think he's a very moral person, even righteous.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

I think he's a very moral person, even righteous.

Susma Rio Sep

Yes, his act is moral.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[CSharp]

Yes, his act is moral.

Susma Rio Sep

I appreciate the difference. Thank you for clarifying.

Assuming the other guy knows what you know (that the store often makes "mistakes" in its own favor which could be a thread in itself), why do you, personally, consider it a moral act?

 

[CSharp]

I think he's a very moral person, even righteous.

Susma Rio Sep

This actually interests me.

Imagine such a person, as the newest member of a very small community that witnessed him acting in this manner on several occassions. He wasn't saving the world, but merely "doing the right thing" in the small matters that presented themselves. And he was a genuinely happy man. Content to be alone, content to be among his neighbors, always a smile, etc.. Why might someone call him a "holy person"? Or, to be more specific, why might a Catholic call him a "holy person"?

I've actually witnessed this scenario and was shocked that such an extreme label would be applied to someone who merely did what he perceived to be "the right thing". He wasn't Catholic himself and the one calling him "holy" was the most bitter and contrary person (an old woman) I've ever known and said it in a manner that suggested it should be obvious to any moron with half a brain (meaning me, of course).

Any thoughts or explanations for this, as a "post graduate Catholic"?

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Moral, righteous, holy...

This actually interests me.

Imagine such a person, as the newest member of a very small community that witnessed him acting in this manner on several occassions. He wasn't saving the world, but merely "doing the right thing" in the small matters that presented themselves. And he was a genuinely happy man. Content to be alone, content to be among his neighbors, always a smile, etc.. Why might someone call him a "holy person"? Or, to be more specific, why might a Catholic call him a "holy person"?

I've actually witnessed this scenario and was shocked that such an extreme label would be applied to someone who merely did what he perceived to be "the right thing". He wasn't Catholic himself and the one calling him "holy" was the most bitter and contrary person (an old woman) I've ever known and said it in a manner that suggested it should be obvious to any moron with half a brain (meaning me, of course).

Any thoughts or explanations for this, as a "post graduate Catholic"?

Actually I said that the person you described is moral, even righteous, and his act is moral.

I didn't say that he is holy.

Honestly, I am myself wondering what is exactly to be a holy person.

If the bitter person calls him holy, then she must have her reasons.

What do I think are her reasons for calling him holy?

First I have to find out what she understands by 'holy'; then I might be able to speculate on her reasons for calling him holy. If I know her and she is available to be interviewed by me, I would ask her for her reasons for calling the person you described as holy.

I am wondering exactly what it is to be holy for a human. God is holy, Jesus, God and man, is holy, the Trinity is holy, because holiness is an attribute of divinity -- which is actually a circularity.

My tendency is to equate being holy in a human with being close to God in the sense that a human does what he thinks God wants him to be and to do.

I like to hear from that bitter woman her reasons for calling holy the person you described.


Susma Rio Sep