Jesus, Christ et al.

Trouble with your puzzle analogy is that everyone has their own puzzles. Your puzzle piece may or may not fit into mine, and vice versa. Not that we should try, but we are going to come up with something other than what's pictured on the outside of the box. And even then, any commonality with be limited in scope, so the picture will be small. But the hope is that what we will end up with is that which is most needful. :)
 
Good reflection, Dondi. :)

The picture on the box always indicates the pattern.

The pattern we should seek is not the deck of cards already in hand.

We are to seek that pattern from beyond ourselves, from the revelation (glimpse) of the heavenly pattern as expressed in both earth (science) and heaven (spiritual).

Our purpose is to discover and uncover that pattern, that would hopefully center on knowing God (more than we do now, yea, even in a new way), rather than new doctrines about Him.

We consult the known pattern, for this knowledge guides us as we move up ahead into the unknown, limited by seeing and knowing in part, because of our body of humiliation, stuck in time and space.

The puzzle box picture is not all there is. This is not like the flat earth with an abyss awaiting at the perimeters of the box. Packaging always presents limitations. Its what they hold that matters.

The wonderful thing about puzzle building is that when you get stuck, and simply cannot see where to go next, somebody like Dondi comes along, picks up a piece, and voilà! It fits perfectly. It helps me along, especially if it was that one critical piece I searched for in vain. Then you unlock a door and a whole new world opens up. Ask, seek, knock. It shall be given.

If you insist that it's only my picture, fine, then you've added value to it.

Respectfully,

Learner. :)

P.S. What makes you buy (into) a particular puzzle in the first place? What makes you like it (more than others)? What gives you an idea of how easy/difficult it is? You always consult the picture on the box. It's the picture outside that reveals in the inside.

There must be a very good reason for not showing the contents as a picture of a chaotic heap of puzzle pieces. Once the content is aligned with order, it will reflect the same image and likeness of the picture that we pursued in the first place, only much larger and unable to go back to the box it came from, unless its all broken up into pieces once more.
 
Thomas said:
So 'you' is the paradigm against which all is measured?

In your opinion, what paradigm should be used as the "measuring stick"? :)
 
The original one.

I would rather argue, based on the lives of the saints and sages, that 'growth' is actually into, not out of ... for my own part, and from my own tradition, Scripture is inexhaustible ... the 'box' is Infinite - but only from inside the box. Outside, it looks just like a box ...

Thomas
 
Thomas-what a wonderful way to put it. A much better way than what I was struggling to put into words when I responded to the issue of beliefs on the knowledge vs. belief thread in another forum. :) earl
 
Thomas said:
The original one.

I would rather argue, based on the lives of the saints and sages, that 'growth' is actually into, not out of ... for my own part, and from my own tradition, Scripture is inexhaustible ... the 'box' is Infinite - but only from inside the box. Outside, it looks just like a box ...

Thomas
Nice way to put it.

I recently heard an illustration (that I found quoted in part on the web) that agrees with your point. It is from Velvet Elvis by Rob Bell:
"An answer... raises even deeper questions. ...Truth always leads to more...truth. Because truth is insight into God and God is infinite and God has no boundaries or edges. So truth always has layers and depth and texture. ...It's like a pool that you dive into...no matter how hard and fast you swim downward the pool keeps getting...deeper. The bottom will always be out of reach ... The very nature of orthodox Christian faith is that we never come to the end. It begs for more. More discussion, more inquiry, more debate, more questions ... It's not so much that the Christian faith has a lot of paradoxes. It's that it is a paradox. And we cannot resolve a paradox. We have to let it be what it is."
All truth is God's truth. It's been my experience that every truth I find elsewhere leads me back to God and to Christ and to scripture. It's all "in there."
 
Earl pointed towards Raimon Panikkar recently - a useful reference for any Interfaith Dialogue - there is much I agree with, and some that causes a frown, but one point impresses itself upon me more and more, every day:

"Before entering into an inter-religious dialogue, one must first depth the reality of one's own tradition. This is to say that intra-religious dialogue is primary."

Thomas
 
Thomas said:
"Before entering into an inter-religious dialogue, one must first depth the reality of one's own tradition. This is to say that intra-religious dialogue is primary."
When you look at any tradition, they are outnumbered as far as beliefs of the rest of the world goes....course an old friend of mine often stated, "If it is G-d and me, we are the majority"

But as you explore there is so much that you must either categorize as poppy-cock....stuff that millions, billions believe in, stake their lives on...but if it were true it would pull the rug out from under my belief system.

That is what got me to look more closely at what I believe and why it was so weak that it made me question it at every turn, why did I want to seek elsewhere.

I am currently at a space, a very Christian space in my book, where I can explore and enjoy and embrace so many theologies and so many peoples, while having my feet happily planted. Tis amazing that freedom.

And when I run into things that I question, that tug at my sensibilities, I look forward to that moment where I will develop an understanding of this situation as well.

peace and blessings
 
Jesus, Jesus Christ, Jesus the Christ, Christed Jesus, Christ....
Different players? Where do we all sit? Again diversity in my mind allows us to know we have differing levels of understanding. I'm really not expecting us to agree....No Liberal Creed or Council....yet.

Jesus, elder brother and wayshower, showed us what is possible and that we to could do what he accomplished and more....as he headed to the Father.

Jesus Christ, I'm more of a Jesus the Christ fan. I feel that as he understood his oneness with all that is, he realized the power one has in this life, and showed us that way.

I believe Jesus the Christ as saviour, as he showed us the way. I'm not big on the cycle of sinning, repenting, forgiving, pennance, I think it is up to us to save ourselves from that.

So looking forward to the thoughts, concepts and understandings of others.

Namaste, Namaskar, The Christ in me, recognizes and honors the Christ in you.

I myself prefer to refer to the Christ spirit in Muhammad as well as the Christ spirit in Jesus. :D
 
Thomas said:
So 'you' is the paradigm against which all is measured?

Sorry, I didn't answer this question.

What I meant by the Church of You, is not to suggest following an isolated religion, but rather that when we stand before God, we will be judged individually according to our own works (I Cor. 3:11-15). You will be acountable to God for your own actions, or inactions as the case may be, your own thoughts, your own words. You will be responsible for what knowledge you gained and what you did with that knowledge. Neither you mom or dad or sister or brother, nor your friends will be there to bail you out. You are on your own in front of God.

But in the case of Christians, of course, the hope is in Jesus Christ, our Advocate (I John 2:1-2).

The only church left when you stand before God is you. How have you measured your life?
 
Hi Dondi –

I fully understand ... but you will have to forgive me ...

Sorry, I didn't answer this question.

What I meant by the Church of You, is not to suggest following an isolated religion, but rather that when we stand before God, we will be judged individually according to our own works (I Cor. 3:11-15). You will be acountable to God for your own actions, or inactions as the case may be, your own thoughts, your own words. You will be responsible for what knowledge you gained and what you did with that knowledge. Neither you mom or dad or sister or brother, nor your friends will be there to bail you out. You are on your own in front of God.

But in the case of Christians, of course, the hope is in Jesus Christ, our Advocate (I John 2:1-2).

The only church left when you stand before God is you. How have you measured your life?


Against His.

He is the Word.

His Church is His gift.

Without the Word, what else do we have, but nature?

Thomas
 
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