What is the future of Islam?

In other words...after the current antogonisms have passed, Islam will liberalise...
 
kkawohl said:
Greetings mrgnash,

Why not reformation via revealed truth that embraces empirical science? If logic is implemented in religions then we have the beginning of rational spirituality rather than religions that are nourished and sustained by superstitions. Is mankind incapable of accepting these truths?

Namaste,
Kurt
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Hello Kurt,

While such a project sounds very nice on paper, what we are really talking about here is a subordination of religion to modern science; a science which is defined and empowered by the a priori exclusion and dismissal of categories which it cannot compass, including the metaphysical/Absoloute. Mankind must simply accept truth, there is no other choice that would not be intellectually dishonest, but to attempt to explain all phenomena by recourse to known empirical facts is to put the cart before the horse i.e to attempt to explain the higher (infinite, Absoloute) in terms of the lower (finite). Such an attempt is doomed to failure, and so the 'answer' has been to simply dismiss metaphysical reality, if not in an outright manner then by epistemological reductionism.

The capitulation of any religion to science for the reasons outlined above, signal its obsolescence and eventual extinction. Things like dogma, mythology and faith which have virtually attained a pejorative connotation in popular usage are in fact the vital and illuminating formal or exoteric dimensions which pave the way, as it were, to the inner mystical dimensions of religion (spirituality); they are neither dispensable nor amenable to rational inquiry (except of course in examining their anthropological and historical content), and therefore cannot be complimented in any meaningful way by an attempt at some sort of scientific exegesis.

I bow to the Divine in you too Kurt, despite the fact that such a notion is highly irrational :)
 
mrgnash said:
Hello Kurt,

The capitulation of any religion to science for the reasons outlined above, signal its obsolescence and eventual extinction. Things like dogma, mythology and faith which have virtually attained a pejorative connotation in popular usage are in fact the vital and illuminating formal or exoteric dimensions which pave the way, as it were, to the inner mystical dimensions of religion (spirituality); they are neither dispensable nor amenable to rational inquiry (except of course in examining their anthropological and historical content), and therefore cannot be complimented in any meaningful way by an attempt at some sort of scientific exegesis.

I bow to the Divine in you too Kurt, despite the fact that such a notion is highly irrational :)
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Greetings mrgnash,

Due to time constraints, I will answer later...but please see my postings #111 & #114 at http://www.comparative-religion.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12370#post12370

Namaste,
Kurt
 
I have only began to read this thread, so i don't know where it's going at the moment, but i came across this close to be start and i was wondering if a Muslim could tell me if this is really in the Quran (as i know little about what is written in it, because i have only started reading about Islam two weeks ago). > Quahom1 wrote:
Islam - definition. To submit (not peace). Inference according to the Qu'ran: Submit to our way or die.
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Is this true? or was he joking? I can't tell...
 
Mason said:
I have only began to read this thread, so i don't know where it's going at the moment, but i came across this close to be start and i was wondering if a Muslim could tell me if this is really in the Quran (as i know little about what is written in it, because i have only started reading about Islam two weeks ago). > Quahom1 wrote:
Quote:
Islam - definition. To submit (not peace). Inference according to the Qu'ran: Submit to our way or die.
Is this true? or was he joking? I can't tell...
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Salaam

Thanks to your question :) :) :)

Islam is derived from the Arabic root "Salema": peace, purity, submission and obedience. In the religious sense, Islam means submission to the will of God and obedience to His law.

Everything and every phenomenon in the world other than man is administered totally by God-made laws, ie. they are obedient to God and submissive to his laws, they are in the State of Islam. Man possesses the qualities of intelligence and choice, thus he is invited to submit to the good will of God and obey His law, ie, become a Muslim.

Submission to the good will of God, together with obedience to His beneficial Law, ie, becoming a Muslim, is the best safeguard for man's peace and harmony.

Islam dates back to the age of Adam and its message has been conveyed to man by God's prophets and messengers, including Abrahim, Moses, Jesus and Muhammad.

Islam's message has been restored and enforced in the last stage of the religious evolution by God's last prophet and messenger, Muhammad.

The word Allah in the Arabic language means God, or more accurately, The One and Only Eternal God, Creator of the Universe, Lord of all lords, King of all kings, Most Compassionate, Most Merciful. The word Allah to mean God is also used by Arabic speaking Jews and Christians.

 
Thanks for the reply Friend, from your post i learnt some things i didn't know. Ty
You answered my question in a way that almost says yes, in a nice way.... Am i right in thinking that or have i misunderstood you? (i wont be scared away from learning more about Islam if yes is the answer) ^_^
 
Namaste Kurt,

thank you for the post.

kkawohl said:
Vajradhara & Avinash,

Enlightenment is the translation of the Sanskrit word “bodhi” which literally means “awakening” or “supreme knowledge”. In Buddhism it is achieved by following the “Eight-fold path” and constitutes freedom from all desires. Enlightenment gives the person who achieves it the wisdom of perceiving the ultimate reality, which entails the power and the ability to work to change that reality in certain ways--especially to help people in need. For example, "Amitabha” created the western land--the "Pure Land"-as a heaven for his followers. Enlightenment is often described as "emptiness’ . This is the final step before "nirvana“. Gaining Enlightenment can be likened to breaking through a wall. At first, only a small hole may be created, through which one can briefly see a small part of the other side. Ultimately, the whole wall may be destroyed and all will be visible.
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not knowing your relative level of understanding or practice within the Buddha Dharma, i'm a bit hestitant to say anything in particular.

however... let me say this.. a being does not gain Nirvana or Awakening, to think of it as "gain" or "accomplishment" is to place it outside of ones essential nature, which is a mistaken conception of what is going on.

nevertheless... this has little, if anything, to do with Islam.. thus, i'll shut up :)
 
Quote:
Islam - definition. To submit (not peace). Inference according to the Qu'ran: Submit to our way or die.
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The answer is No , ( may be I didn't explain the answer well )You will not be a Muslim by force ,
Allah said in the Quraan,which can be translated as :

" Let there be no compulsion in religion: Truth stands out clear from Error: whoever rejects Evil and believes in Allah hath grasped the most trustworthy hand-hold, that never breaks. And Allah heareth and knoweth all things.[2 :256]

So we don't have a commands from Allah as Muslims to Kill non Muslim , but if anyone attack the Muslims, Allah allowed us to defence ourselves .this is what Islam message told us .

Islam mean. submit to Allah , which means accept everything Allah gave you in your life and put your life in the way of Allah and trust that he will listen to you and help you if you believe that he is the only savior for you .

so if you submit in Islam it must be only for Allah , and we are all slaves of Allah ....and in Islam you must not submit to any of his slaves .

If you doesn't understand my answer please ask me , and you are welcome to ask any questions .
 
Friend said:
so if you submit in Islam it must be only for Allah , and we are all slaves of Allah ....and in Islam you must not submit to any of his slaves .
.
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Greetings Friend,

This is very interesting. Forgive my ignorance, but does this mean that Islam abolished human slavery?

peace,
lunamoth
 
Salaam
The answer is yes , and to explain how Islam treat this subject I should told you that Slavery is a very old practice that was gradually abolished in Islam (Submission). Many people out of ignorance or out of biased attack Islam (Submission) for its stand on slavery, distorting and misrepresenting the true stand of Islam (Submission).
The central issue of slavery and equality is the concept of human dignity. In Islam, God has conferred honor and dignity on all human beings irrespective of their race, gender, age, social status and beliefs.

In (17:70) God says in Quraan Which can be translated as : “We have honored the children of Adam, and provided them with rides on land and in the sea. We provided for them good provisions, and we gave them greater advantages than many of our creatures.” ​

Together with human dignity and honor comes freedom to live, the right to be respected on an equal basis before the law and to enjoy equal social treatment. Islam (Submission) stresses the equality of mankind as God created man​

from a common source and the only allegiance and obedience is to God, the Almighty creator. Islam has never condoned any form of discrimination. The only thing that sets men apart is their righteousness.

[49:13] "O people, we created you from the same male and female, and rendered you distinct peoples and tribes, that you may recognize one another. The best among you in the sight of GOD is the most righteous. GOD is Omniscient, Cognizant." ​

​

Slavery has been gradually abolished by Islam, it did not come by decree or injunction but rather in the form of total management principles which were applied during the early periods of Islam and still applicable today if necessary. ​

Slavery has long been practiced before the coming of Islam (Submission). In the pre-Islamic Egyptian, Jewish, Greek and Roman societies , slavery was in full use in different aspects. Aristotle subscribed to the idea that men were born not to be equal as some will become master due to their superior brain power and intellectual capacity while others will become slaves. ​

The approach taken by Islam (Submission) is full of wisdom and at the same time provides a package of pro-active measures to eliminate this practice. It is a gradual but effective approach which combines several affirmative measures.​

The main strategy is: ​

To narrow down the sources of slavery with a view to eliminating it all-together; and ​

OPENING a wide avenue for slaves to gain independence. ​

People became slaves because of criminal actions, unpaid debts, gambling, kidnapping, piracy, irresponsible parents who sold their children into slavery, being descendants of slaves, prisoners of war and voluntary submission to be a slave in order to get out from the miseries of life such as acute poverty. These were effectively reduced by Islam. ​

The provision of slavery through wars was no longer important after the Islamic civilization redefined the mode of interaction between nations -- from power struggle to peaceful and productive coexistence. Indirectly but effectively Islam has closed this source of slavery. ​

Islam (Submission) opened all the doors to free the slaves by setting up rules which greatly facilitated the emancipation of slaves: ​

The initiative of Islam in promoting independence for slaves was carried out in the following ways: ​

(1) Encouraging the masters and the Muslim societies at large to help in freeing the slaves. The act of freeing the slave is considered a noble one which is highly valued by God. The slaves themselves entered into an agreement with the master to buy their independence by paying certain amounts of money. The society was encouraged to help in providing the freedom money. ​

[24:33] “Those who cannot afford to get married shall maintain morality until GOD provides for them from His grace. Those among your servants who wish to be freed in order to marry, you shall grant them their wish, once you realize that they are honest. And give them from GOD's money that He has bestowed upon you. ………”​

(2) Making the act of freeing the slave a part of punishment for any criminal act as well as for non-conformity of the Islamic rituals. There are several verses in the Holy Quran which specifically mentioned the requirement of freeing the slave as a way of meeting the punishment for wrongdoing. See 4:92, 5:89 and 58:3 ​

(3) Using Charity money as a financial source to free the slave. ​

[9:60] Charities shall go to the poor, the needy, the workers who collect them, the new converts, to free the slaves, to those burdened by sudden expenses, in the cause of GOD, and to the traveling alien. Such is GOD's commandment. GOD is Omniscient, Most Wise. ​

[2:177] “Righteousness is not turning your faces towards the east or the west. Righteous are those who believe in GOD, the Last Day, the angels, the scripture, and the prophets; and they give the money, cheerfully, to the relatives, the orphans, the needy, the traveling alien, the beggars, and to free the slaves; and they observe the Contact Prayers (Salat) and give the obligatory charity (Zakat); and they keep their word whenever they make a promise; and they steadfastly persevere in the face of persecution, hardship, and war. These are the truthful; these are the righteous.” ​

[90:10-13] Did we not show him the two paths? He should choose the difficult path. Which one is the difficult path? The freeing of slaves. ​

​

Finally we can say that Islam found the slavery system already existing and put forward a plan to abolish it. ​

No slaves or Free the slaves:​

Some people question why God in the Quran did not prohibit slavery and instead commanded and rewarded the freeing of the slaves. ​

God, The Almighty, knows that slavery is a social disease that will persist as long as humans are present on earth. If the order in the Quran is to prohibit slavery, it would be a noble command but since ONLY the believers in the Quran would be the ones following the Quran, the command would not help slavery outside Islam (Submission.) Every Muslim would then free his slaves and remind the other Muslims not to have slaves any more and their duty stop at that. The command in the Quran to FREE THE SLAVES, does not stop at the Muslims or Islam but extend to all the slaves wherever they are. A muslim (Submitter) would therefore free any slaves he might have had and after that turns to any other slaves in any location and of any religion to free, as commanded by God in the Quran. In other words, the command to free the slaves is far more reaching and far more effective than the mere order to stop having slaves. ​

Van Denburg, a non-Muslim historian says, "Many regulations have been made by Islam, showing how noble was the feeling of the Prophet Muhammad and his followers towards slaves. In those regulations, we find that the merits of Islam are contrary to all the systems used until recently by nations, who claim to be most civilized and developed." ​

Islam never became a force nor a party that promoted and condoned slavery. A balanced analysis of this issue would recognize the wisdom of Islam in managing the heinous practice of slavery and effectively putting an end to it.​




 
Thank you Friend, for elaborating, i understand what you mean this time. ^_^

I have many questions about Islam, but most wouldn't suite the topic of this thread... i know only a very little.
 
Mason said:
Thank you Friend, for elaborating, i understand what you mean this time. ^_^

I have many questions about Islam, but most wouldn't suite the topic of this thread... i know only a very little.
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Salaam

Thank you too Mason , and I told you that you are welcome to ask any questions , you can started new thread to do that .
 
Nice post Friend . Just wanted to add a few Ahadeeth ( Sayings of Prophet Mohammed ) about the matter

Abu Huraira reported Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him) as saying: "When the slave of anyone amongst you prepares food for him and he serves him after having sat close to (and undergoing the hardship of) heat and smoke, he should make him (the slave) sit along with him and make him eat (along with him), and if the food seems to run short, then he should spare some portion for him (from his own share) (Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4096)"

Narrated Al-Ma'rur: At Ar-Rabadha I met Abu Dhar who was wearing a cloak, and his slave, too, was wearing a similar one. I asked about the reason for it. He replied, "I abused a person by calling his mother with bad names." The Prophet said to me, 'O Abu Dhar! Did you abuse him by calling his mother with bad names You still have some characteristics of ignorance (that people had before Islam). Your slaves are your brothers and Allah has put them under your command. So whoever has a brother under his command should feed him of what he eats and dress him of what he wears. Do not ask them (slaves) to do things beyond their capacity (power) and if you do so, then help them.' (Sahih Bukhari, Book 2, Belief, Volume 1, Book 2, Number 29)"


Abu Mas'ud al-Ansari reported: "When I was beating my servant, I heard a voice behind me (saying): Abu Mas'ud, bear in mind Allah has more dominance over you than you have upon him. I turned and (found him) to be Allah's Messenger (may peace be upon him). I said: Allah's Messenger, I set him free for the sake of Allah. Thereupon he said: Had you not done that, (the gates of) Hell would have opened for you, or the fire would have burnt you. (Sahih Muslim, The Book of Oaths (Kitab Al-Aiman), Book 015, Number 4088)"

So even if a person has a slave , he is more like a servent to him , & not a slave in usual sense . And their masters are prohibited to hurt them ( physically or psychologically ) , or ask them to do things they cant do .

Peace
Farhan
 
lunamoth said:
Dear Friend, thank you for your answer to my question about slavery.

lunamoth :)
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Salaam
lunamoth ....You are more welcome to ask any questions :)
 
farhan said:
So even if a person has a slave , he is more like a servent to him , & not a slave in usual sense . And their masters are prohibited to hurt them ( physically or psychologically ) , or ask them to do things they cant do .
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That is also a very important point to make - that in the ancient world, slavery was effectively a form of labour market, and although a slave lacked the same protections by society as free peoples, the protections were usually expected to be delivered by the master of the household.
 
It is prophecised that in the last days, nations will call each other to fight Muslims. We see this today. Bush is telling the world: "You are either with us or against us," and majority believe that Muslims deserve to be attacked.
Also, it is propheciseed (i can't spell well) that inthe last days before the Judgement Day, people will leave Islam in groups just as they came into the faith in the groups.
 
Amica said:
It is prophecised that in the last days, nations will call each other to fight Muslims. We see this today. Bush is telling the world: "You are either with us or against us," and majority believe that Muslims deserve to be attacked.
Also, it is propheciseed (i can't spell well) that inthe last days before the Judgement Day, people will leave Islam in groups just as they came into the faith in the groups.
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Welcome Amica,

It is also prophesised that Muslims bring the fight to themselves...No? If I am wrong please correct me. It is also prophesised that the enemy of Islam is a reluctant enemy, is it not?

I may be way off base here, but I just thought those were important (if not accurate) observations.

v/r

Q
 
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