Questions for Muslims

Perhaps you may want to look at this paganprophet, it takes a bit of reading but shows both ends of the spectrum.

Houri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

You should also read chapter 56 of the Quran, it is called Al-Waqia (The Event)

USC-MSA Compendium of Muslim Texts

The first link explains the hadith that talks about 72 virgins and refers to it as weak (ie a bit of a fib). Please don't just read a little bit and say there you go then, you really have to read it all to understand. It very much depends which scholars and translators you listen to. Opinion goes from "an eternal erection.....deflowering renewable virgins all day, every day" to "having a joyous time listening to music and being happy in the presence of Allah" - bit of a difference considering they are discussing the same thing.

So I think it depends very much how your mind works and how the mind of the translator works. What I can tell you is that most of this comes from the hadiths. I did a few searches of the Quran - are you ready for a quick maths lesson?

I can find the words heaven, paradise and gardens 197 times:

53 = Allah's domain/heavens and earth/sky
24 = Must do good deeds to get in/ believers get in
24 = general swearing by heaven/gates of/heaven sent
16 = descriptions of best home/rivers/lamps/rains etc
20 = joy/bliss/sins forgiven/
11 = Judgement Day
11 = who will not enter
10 = garden of Eden
1 = You will enter with your wives
1= wives (as in us human ones) will have a high place

The rest are all singular references and you will need to just take my word for it that it isn't all virgins and deflowering. The huriyah are mentioned in the Quran where I gave the link above.

So as you see, the Quran talks about heaven in terms of G-d's domain, the good deeds we must do to be able to earn a place there, rivers, milk, fruit, etc. The erections and virgins come from men and personally I think an awful lot of it is just plain wishful thinking on their part.
 
ps. there is nothing in either the Quran or Hadiths that says terrorists or murderers even get into heaven, let alone rewarded. Their punishment for murder is set out rather vividly. These people are told by their trusted leaders that they will go to the highest level of heaven, virgins, sex, blah, blah, blah but how else do you get a young man to blow himself up for your political cause? Remember these young men and women believe in their leaders utterly and never ask to see the proof of their rewards promised by G-d, if the leader says so it must be true.

Salaam
 
"an eternal erection.....deflowering renewable virgins all day, every day"
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Just curious (cuz I never got an answer) , Is there any hadith that talks about this . According to what I have seen, this always gets quoted from Suyuti's commentry of Quran. I never came across any primary sources of Islam saying anything about erections & renewablities.
 
...much like christianity is the johnny-come-lately of judaism? or buddhism the johhny come lately of hinduism? or like modern Garderian wicca is just a reinterpretation of the golden dawn's teachings..?

I can't believe that blazn and terrence can be so openly hostile in their above posts and not have a mod openly shout them down...

I hope that our decent muslim brothers and sisters are not too offended by the ignorance shown to them and I would like to thank them for not rising to the bait...

yes, there are suicide bombers in islam, much the same way as there are xtian Pro-lifers bombing abortion clinics and aggressive animal rights extremists sending parcel bombs to those who work in animal testing labs...

extremism isn't just for muslims, u know... everyone has a go... catholics, buddhists, jews, hindu's, the list goes on and on...

savages with delusions of superiority hijack religion for their own ends, much like in politics... it is irresponsible of self styled leaders to suggest their followers kill themselves and others for rewards in heaven- david koresh, the solar temple, Heaven's gate, jim jones, there's lots of them... they attract impressionable young people, sick people, desperate and lonely people, and they fill their heads full of nonsense, and then bad things happen...

anyone can be recruited by a cult, and that's what these organisations are, cults... it isn't just muslims who are susceptible to this, we all are... if we feel downtrodden, oppressed, marginalised, it's easy to make us fight, u just need a good leader... if we think that we can make things change for the good, we can do bad things...

one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter...

and, with regard to the virgins...

...perhaps the vigins thing is just a metaphor..? maybe u don't actually get the virgins, in the flesh, it just feels that way, in heaven? like one long continual love making session..?
 
Muslimwoman said:
ps. there is nothing in either the Quran or Hadiths that says terrorists or murderers even get into heaven, let alone rewarded. Their punishment for murder is set out rather vividly. These people are told by their trusted leaders that they will go to the highest level of heaven, virgins, sex, blah, blah, blah but how else do you get a young man to blow himself up for your political cause? Remember these young men and women believe in their leaders utterly and never ask to see the proof of their rewards promised by G-d, if the leader says so it must be true.

Salaam
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Do you think Allah takes into consideration that these people blowing themselves up for entrance into heaven (virgins or not) are misinformed, before He passes judgment on them? That the real perptrators are the ones who have brainwashed these poor folks into thinking they have nothing else to live for, but that their death bring some kind of glory to God?
 
Muslimwoman, my question isn't about the Muslim ideas of heaven but about Muhammad's revisioning of Jesus's teachings. I don't think Muslims have a real understanding of how offensive Muhammad's conceptualization of Jesus is to practicing Christians. And I'm nearly absolutely sure Muslims have no idea that their Muhammad fits the Christian prophesies of the anti-Christ very well because one of the main points of that prophesy is that the anti-Christ will deny Christ and promote himself instead.

By so changing the Muslim history of Jesus and the Muslim expectation of Jesus' return, Muhammad has effectively denied the Jesus Christ of the Gospels and substituted a makeover Jesus, Issa, who is stripped of all of Jesus' compassionate teachings and forgiveness of sins to become another fierce Muslim warrior for Allah. In short, Muhammad's treatment of Jesus is so disrespectful as to become a cause in itself for anti-Islamic feelings in Christians.
 
farhan said:
Just curious (cuz I never got an answer) , Is there any hadith that talks about this . According to what I have seen, this always gets quoted from Suyuti's commentry of Quran. I never came across any primary sources of Islam saying anything about erections & renewablities.
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as salaam aleykum farhan

I shall give you link again, it states the hadith re 72 twice, one interpretation says 72 wives and one states 72 virgins. However mainstream view is stated as 2 wives. As I said in my post this hadith is considered weak but the link is worth a read, it shows the dramatic difference in interpretations.

As you can see the comments re erections etc, do come from Suyuti however they are the extreme view. As I said in my original post interpretations do go from one extreme to the other and people should take time to read the whole thing, in order not to get a biased view.

Houri - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Salaam
 
Dondi said:
Do you think Allah takes into consideration that these people blowing themselves up for entrance into heaven (virgins or not) are misinformed, before He passes judgment on them? That the real perptrators are the ones who have brainwashed these poor folks into thinking they have nothing else to live for, but that their death bring some kind of glory to God?
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Hi Dondi

Great question and of course I can only give you my personal view. We all have in-built morals and each one of us should know deep in our hearts that it is wrong to kill. The difficulty does come when you become brainwashed and to be honest Allah knows what is in our hearts better than we do, whether we truly have been brainwashed into believing something and I would hope Allah takes this into consideration. However, Allah will know if we have the slightest doubt and it is that doubt, if ignored, that will catch many people out.

For those truly brainwashed I really hope that Allah is merciful and offers them punishment for their sins before finally allowing them to enter Paradise, because I really believe there is more to the story of these young people than just a desire to kill, there must be absolute dispair I should think.

Just my own view of course.
 
paganprophet said:
Muslimwoman, my question isn't about the Muslim ideas of heaven but about Muhammad's revisioning of Jesus's teachings.
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Hi paganprophet

As a former Christian, I would very much like to discuss the Muslim view of Jesus (pbuh) with you. Not sure if the Mods would want us to discuss it here, if not please can someone move this to a new thread as I feel it is a very important topic.

First can I ask if you have actually looked into the Quranic verses pertaining to Jesus (pbuh) or are you taking your views from materials on the net? Just curious so I know where to start.

Regarding the name Isa, have a look at the link below, it discusses a number of theories as to where the name came from including that it may have been a Christian one taken from the Syrians:

Islamic view of Jesus: Information from Answers.com

I can assure you that no Muslim would ever insult Jesus (pbuh) or allow his name to be insulted. I understand that Christians may feel we insult him by not accepting him as the literal son of G-d but we believe the Quran is the word of G-d and in it we are taught that Jesus (pbuh) was a Messenger of G-d and a very special one even among the Prophets (pbut). Our beliefs are not intended in any way to insult Jesus (pbuh) and should be seen as they are, simply differences in belief.

Please let me know what you know of our belief in Jesus (pbuh) and perhaps we can go from there and I can discuss with you anything I feel is a misconception.

Salaam
 
Muslimwoman said:
As a former Christian, I would very much like to discuss the Muslim view of Jesus (pbuh) with you.

Salaam
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I know you didn't mean me but I'm really curious...(if you don't mind sharing here or by PM) how did you come to the place of being able to change your view of Jesus?

I'm not asking to argue with you or anything. It's just that, when I was studying Islam, I almost converted, but couldn't get past Jesus' divinity.
 
Prober said:
I know you didn't mean me but I'm really curious...(if you don't mind sharing here or by PM) how did you come to the place of being able to change your view of Jesus?

I'm not asking to argue with you or anything. It's just that, when I was studying Islam, I almost converted, but couldn't get past Jesus' divinity.
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I'll PM you Prober as this goes off topic for the thread but if anyone else is curious just let me know and I'll post my answer here.
 
Dondi said:
Is their some kind of Islamic purgatory?
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Hi Dondi

No we do not believe in purgatory. We believe after death we will remain in our graves until the Day of Judgement, then we will be Judged by Allah and sent to heaven or hell. We do not believe that once in hell it is necessarily for eternity, it is possible, with the Mercy of Allah, to spend a time of punishment in hell for sins we have committed and then be returned to Allah. There is a bit more to it but that is the basic concept.
 
Hi Muslimwoman,

I have read the Quran and have engaged Muslims before on Issa vs. Jesus. I am not a believer in Muhammad's inerrancy so there is that but then again I don't believe in the NT accounts of Jesus Christ as literal truth either. Unfortunately, the ancients were not very concerned with what we moderns think of as "truth" so all kinds of religious mythologies have been accepted as "truth" when they were only men's fantasies promoting their causes which usually involved taking territory, mental at first, then physical territory to be held under control by the religious priesthoods, i.e., a corruption of the original Spirit uniting all humanity under a benovolent God.
 
Hi PP

I would never deny that fact and fiction have been intertwined over time in all religions, however I believe the truth can easily been seen as long as you are prepared to accept this.

Not sure it is very nice to put up a post to me with such comments about the Prophet Mohammad's (pbuh) view of Jesus (pbuh) then say you have discussed it before. Obviously entirely up to you but I would like people to know I do not accept your comments and feel that you have the usual misconceptions of Muslim beliefs.

Salaam
 
Muslimwoman, I know your religion teaches you to pay respect to prophets of God but being a prophet sort myself I am under no one's obligation but God's to tell the truth. The ancients were quite free with that concept, truth, and it is the reason why the Abrahamics are at each other's throats as well as being the religious bullies of the world.

Now is not the time to continue the ancient religious lies dividing peoples but to come together in unity of pure belief in God as the Source of Goodness in this world.
 
Francis king said:
...

...perhaps the vigins thing is just a metaphor..? maybe u don't actually get the virgins, in the flesh, it just feels that way, in heaven? like one long continual love making session..?
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OMG ...I'm exhausted already!!....cant I just go down the pub? :rolleyes:
 
paganprophet said:
Muslimwoman, I know your religion teaches you to pay respect to prophets of God but being a prophet sort myself I am under no one's obligation but God's to tell the truth. The ancients were quite free with that concept, truth, and it is the reason why the Abrahamics are at each other's throats as well as being the religious bullies of the world.

Now is not the time to continue the ancient religious lies dividing peoples but to come together in unity of pure belief in God as the Source of Goodness in this world.
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Hi PP

You can post generalities until the cows come home but I can't discuss anything based on a loose comment with no indication of what you are trying to get at. Give a specific and we can discuss.
 
Specific case? Claim that the Quran contains all the information needed to live according to God's will. A false claim.
 
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