in christianity there are 3 gods in one so i beleive, well i dont believ, but thats what i used to believe and what christians do....but are these three gods equal? becasue i thought they would be as we learnt taht its 3 gods in 1...so all equal, like a shamrock...but jesus says in the new testament that ''the father is greater than i'' so therefore they are not equal right,so are they like 3 distict gods all with different levels of authority?
are jesus and god equal?
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Faithfulservant
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Ok I'll say it again because its important... Jesus is God.. Jesus has been around forever and ever.. Jesus put on flesh.. that means He became a lesser being which is Man...and in that form He was lesser than than the Father.. but He was STILL God. Now that He has His new body and is sitting at the right hand of the Father He is no longer LESSER than the Father...
Hope that helps.
Might I also add that when a human father has a child the child is respectful of his father and is in a sense lesser than his father. It is one of our commandments.
Hope that helps.
Might I also add that when a human father has a child the child is respectful of his father and is in a sense lesser than his father. It is one of our commandments.
Jesus gave up His divinity for a time, and embraced humanity...Do you understand that? He became US! for a time. He felt what we felt, he ate what we eat, he toiled as we toil, He loved as we love, He got angry as we get angry, He laid down His life as we are capable of laying down ours.
Then, He beat death. He shows us we can too. He shows the way.
Pretty good leader if you ask me...
pattimax
Somewhat returning
Preach it Brother!
BlaznFattyz
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for a moment in time, god the father was in heaven, and jesus was on earth as man, yet he was conceived of spirit and the spirit dwelt fully in him. jesus took all our sin, he became sin, and god sacrificed his son and it pleased him. and jesus was raised back to glory with the father he had from the beginning. jesus and god the father both share the name YHWH, and the word of god that became the son created all things and sits back on the throne of god as our god and is equal to god as both are life, unchanging, saviour, worshipped, almighty. those that saw the man jesus but knew who he really was, saw god spiritually, when others were blind to it or rejected it. those that know jesus is god call on him as our personal saviour because he died for us so we might have life in him, and those that god has revealed himself to have seen their saviour and they are to call on him personally and that is jesus christ.
Hi BlaznFattyz –
for a moment in time, god the father was in heaven, and jesus was on earth as man, yet he was conceived of spirit and the spirit dwelt fully in him.
Yes indeed, agreed, absolutely, but let us not rush over His humanity to assert his Divinity – When God became man, He emptied Himself of his Divinity to partake of our humanity, else He would not be man, but God posing as a man... let us savour the 'mystery in plain sight' that was the Incarnation that Quahom speaks of ... there is something beyond the mere miraculous!
My own personal take:
The Holy Spirit was with Him, from the very first, and every miracle Jesus called the Spirit accomplished in the Father's name ... in every prophetic utterance Christ made the Holy Spirit was on his tongue ... when He walked upon the waters, the Spirit upheld him (as It did Peter) ... when He cured the sick ... when He raised the dead ... the Spirit fulfilled Him ... and when God spoke from the heavens "this is my beloved son" (Mark 9:7) it was the Spirit who accomplished the sign that all might believe...
This is where we err, this is where the pride of Adam rears his ugly head ... in assuming that because Christ became like us, then we are like Him.
In this sense, the likeness is merely superficial ... it is by God's grace we become One with the Father, not by who we are, for no cloud ever parted above us and said 'this is my beloved son' ... but yet we can be like Him, if we follow Him in faith ... "Into thy hands I commend my spirit..." but it's a tough act to follow...
Luke 23:46
Thomas
for a moment in time, god the father was in heaven, and jesus was on earth as man, yet he was conceived of spirit and the spirit dwelt fully in him.
Yes indeed, agreed, absolutely, but let us not rush over His humanity to assert his Divinity – When God became man, He emptied Himself of his Divinity to partake of our humanity, else He would not be man, but God posing as a man... let us savour the 'mystery in plain sight' that was the Incarnation that Quahom speaks of ... there is something beyond the mere miraculous!
My own personal take:
The Holy Spirit was with Him, from the very first, and every miracle Jesus called the Spirit accomplished in the Father's name ... in every prophetic utterance Christ made the Holy Spirit was on his tongue ... when He walked upon the waters, the Spirit upheld him (as It did Peter) ... when He cured the sick ... when He raised the dead ... the Spirit fulfilled Him ... and when God spoke from the heavens "this is my beloved son" (Mark 9:7) it was the Spirit who accomplished the sign that all might believe...
This is where we err, this is where the pride of Adam rears his ugly head ... in assuming that because Christ became like us, then we are like Him.
In this sense, the likeness is merely superficial ... it is by God's grace we become One with the Father, not by who we are, for no cloud ever parted above us and said 'this is my beloved son' ... but yet we can be like Him, if we follow Him in faith ... "Into thy hands I commend my spirit..." but it's a tough act to follow...
Luke 23:46
Thomas
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I agree Thomas...I said that on another thread about pride and ppl claiming we are like Christ.. but you say it so much more eloquently than I did..
BlaznFattyz
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agreed 100%, there is no rush on my part. god exhalts those that humble themselves and christ is the perfect example. i am completely humbled at the feet of jesus.
moseslmpg
Well-Known Member
What are the difference between the 3 "persons" anyway? How do you determine if the Spirit is speaking, or if it's the Father or the Son (aside from references to incarnation from the Son).
Cage
Spirit Guided
I agree Thomas...I said that on another thread about pride and ppl claiming we are like Christ.. but you say it so much more eloquently than I did..
Hi faithfulservant,
I think we can be like Christ inasmuch as we can Love, know Love, and live in that Love, but only as much as it is in our hearts to do so. Jesus was more than a 'leader', he was our way of knowing the Love of God. He granted his Spirit to us, showed us how to walk in that Spirit, and through him we are saved.
You see Jesus as Gods equal, and he may very well be. I won't argue against your view, and I will try to understand it. I accept what Christ Jesus did for me, (All of us) and I Love him, but that isn't enough for you.
Why?
You attempt to put fear in my heart because of this.
Why?
Understand, faithfulservant, that I must be honest to both God and myself concerning this matter. Believeing that Jesus was God does not come easy for me, nor should it! Do you think fear will make me believe this? No, fear will not make me believe, but maybe a little guidence could.
I am merely standing on the base of my foundation, which is Gods Love. The temple is being erected, and Christ is the corner stone; without him, I don't know if the temple could ever be erected at all...
With Love...
~Cage~
BlaznFattyz
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good question. for the most part it is jesus or pre-incarnate jesus as the word of god speaking on behalf of the father thoughout the bible, because as sinful men we are not able to approach or hear or see god the father as he truly is, except in some manifestation like the man jesus christ or the burning bush or a cloud. many times they appear and speak simultaneously, because whatever the father says and does, they all do, as they are one and mirror images of god.
no, there is one god in three persons so that we may be reconciled back to the father thru the son in spirit and truth.
"No man has seen the Father at any time..."
God the Father might be conceived as synonymous with Eckhart's Gottheit or Ground – He transcends all knowing, He is inconceivable.
He is 'arche anarchos' (principle without principle) whilst the Son is 'arche' or principle.
It is through the Son, the Arche or Logos ... the Word ... that we can conceive of God the Father ... it is in the Spirit that we can be one with Him.
Cage, you said:
"I think we can be like Christ inasmuch as we can Love, know Love, and live in that Love, but only as much as it is in our hearts to do so.
Agreed, this is what we understand by 'in him we live and move and have our being'
Jesus was more than a 'leader', he was our way of knowing the Love of God. He granted his Spirit to us, showed us how to walk in that Spirit, and through him we are saved.
Agreed again, with the provisio that we do not regard Him as 'leader' - we do not seem him as someone who leads the way, but we see Him as the way personified.
Love is the Holy Spirit – 'love' denotes three things:
That which loves: The Father;
That which is loved: The Son;
The love engendered: The Spirit.
The Father loves the Son, and the Son loves the Father, and the Spirit is the Life of that Love, and it is there that we 'live and move and have our being' or, if we choose otherwise, we live outside of that love, but as much as we reject God, He never 'closes the door' on us – we can come home anytime, and that is unconditional.
You attempt to put fear in my heart because of this.
Cage, I'd really like to understand that.
Thomas
God the Father might be conceived as synonymous with Eckhart's Gottheit or Ground – He transcends all knowing, He is inconceivable.
He is 'arche anarchos' (principle without principle) whilst the Son is 'arche' or principle.
It is through the Son, the Arche or Logos ... the Word ... that we can conceive of God the Father ... it is in the Spirit that we can be one with Him.
Cage, you said:
"I think we can be like Christ inasmuch as we can Love, know Love, and live in that Love, but only as much as it is in our hearts to do so.
Agreed, this is what we understand by 'in him we live and move and have our being'
Jesus was more than a 'leader', he was our way of knowing the Love of God. He granted his Spirit to us, showed us how to walk in that Spirit, and through him we are saved.
Agreed again, with the provisio that we do not regard Him as 'leader' - we do not seem him as someone who leads the way, but we see Him as the way personified.
Love is the Holy Spirit – 'love' denotes three things:
That which loves: The Father;
That which is loved: The Son;
The love engendered: The Spirit.
The Father loves the Son, and the Son loves the Father, and the Spirit is the Life of that Love, and it is there that we 'live and move and have our being' or, if we choose otherwise, we live outside of that love, but as much as we reject God, He never 'closes the door' on us – we can come home anytime, and that is unconditional.
You attempt to put fear in my heart because of this.
Cage, I'd really like to understand that.
Thomas
Dondi
Well-Known Member
"But one in a certain place testified, saying, What is man, that thou art mindful of him? or the son of man that thou visitest him?
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him." - Hebrews 2:6-8
This quote in Hebrews from Psalm 8 shows the status of man as being made lower than the angels in creation.
In Hebrews 1:1-4, Jesus is described as being better than the angels, as He is the express image of His person (that is God).
So when Christ came to earth, He was put lower than the angels for a time UNTIL He completed His work:
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." - Hebrews 2:9-10
Some believe that Jesus being "made a little lower than the angels" indicates that He was created at the moment of birth, but Jesus existed before his birth according to Philippians 2:5-10:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
He we have Jesus taking the form of a man, which indicates that He was something else before He became a man.
What was Jesus before he became a man?
Well, He wasn't an angel, for Hebrews tells us that He is higher than the angels.
In fact Hebrews 1:6 says, "...And let all the angels of God worship Him."
So what could be higher than the angels? In Ezekiel 1, there is nothing between God and the four creatures surrounding Him and worshipping Him on the throne.
In Revelation 5, we see these same four creatures and the throne of God again, only this time, there is only One who is worthy to open the scroll. it is the Lamb of God that proceeds out of the throne of God, see vs 6 and 7:
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
Finally, all that are present before the throne of God worship the Lamb:
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever." - Revelation 5:13-14
Whatever one thinks of Jesus, you cannot escape the fact that He is far above any angel or man. And that He receives worship from both.
But the dilemma arises in that according to Isaiah 42:8:
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
So how is it that Jesus received the glory in Revelation 5? The only recourse that solves the problem is if Jesus is somehow God.
Thou madest him a little lower than the angels; thou crownedst him with glory and honour, and didst set him over the works of thy hands:
Thou hast put all things in subjection under his feet. For in that he put all in subjection under him, he left nothing that is not put under him. But now we see not yet all things put under him." - Hebrews 2:6-8
This quote in Hebrews from Psalm 8 shows the status of man as being made lower than the angels in creation.
In Hebrews 1:1-4, Jesus is described as being better than the angels, as He is the express image of His person (that is God).
So when Christ came to earth, He was put lower than the angels for a time UNTIL He completed His work:
"But we see Jesus, who was made a little lower than the angels for the suffering of death, crowned with glory and honour; that he by the grace of God should taste death for every man.
For it became him, for whom are all things, and by whom are all things, in bringing many sons unto glory, to make the captain of their salvation perfect through sufferings." - Hebrews 2:9-10
Some believe that Jesus being "made a little lower than the angels" indicates that He was created at the moment of birth, but Jesus existed before his birth according to Philippians 2:5-10:
"Let this mind be in you, which was also in Christ Jesus:
Who, being in the form of God, thought it not robbery to be equal with God:
But made himself of no reputation, and took upon him the form of a servant, and was made in the likeness of men:
And being found in fashion as a man, he humbled himself, and became obedient unto death, even the death of the cross. Wherefore God also hath highly exalted him, and given him a name which is above every name:
That at the name of Jesus every knee should bow, of things in heaven, and things in earth, and things under the earth;
And that every tongue should confess that Jesus Christ is Lord, to the glory of God the Father."
He we have Jesus taking the form of a man, which indicates that He was something else before He became a man.
What was Jesus before he became a man?
Well, He wasn't an angel, for Hebrews tells us that He is higher than the angels.
In fact Hebrews 1:6 says, "...And let all the angels of God worship Him."
So what could be higher than the angels? In Ezekiel 1, there is nothing between God and the four creatures surrounding Him and worshipping Him on the throne.
In Revelation 5, we see these same four creatures and the throne of God again, only this time, there is only One who is worthy to open the scroll. it is the Lamb of God that proceeds out of the throne of God, see vs 6 and 7:
"And I beheld, and, lo, in the midst of the throne and of the four beasts, and in the midst of the elders, stood a Lamb as it had been slain, having seven horns and seven eyes, which are the seven Spirits of God sent forth into all the earth. And he came and took the book out of the right hand of him that sat upon the throne."
Finally, all that are present before the throne of God worship the Lamb:
"And every creature which is in heaven, and on the earth, and under the earth, and such as are in the sea, and all that are in them, heard I saying, Blessing, and honour, and glory, and power, be unto him that sitteth upon the throne, and unto the Lamb for ever and ever.
And the four beasts said, Amen. And the four and twenty elders fell down and worshipped him that liveth for ever and ever." - Revelation 5:13-14
Whatever one thinks of Jesus, you cannot escape the fact that He is far above any angel or man. And that He receives worship from both.
But the dilemma arises in that according to Isaiah 42:8:
"I am the LORD: that is my name: and my glory will I not give to another, neither my praise to graven images."
So how is it that Jesus received the glory in Revelation 5? The only recourse that solves the problem is if Jesus is somehow God.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I think we can be like Christ inasmuch as we can Love, know Love, and live in that Love, but only as much as it is in our hearts to do so. Jesus was more than a 'leader', he was our way of knowing the Love of God. He granted his Spirit to us, showed us how to walk in that Spirit, and through him we are saved.
You see Jesus as Gods equal, and he may very well be. I won't argue against your view, and I will try to understand it. I accept what Christ Jesus did for me, (All of us) and I Love him, but that isn't enough for you.
Why? Because Jesus said it wasnt enough... Do you not understand Him when He says that many will say they knew Him and He will say the He did not know them?? Do you not see when Thomas says to Jesus My Lord My God and Jesus said you believe me now.. but blessed are those who believe without seeing.. He is your creator He was the Lord God that walked and ate with Abraham.. He said that He and His Father are one... The fact that when we have children they are human when God had His child who would it be? Human or God... or both? We create like after like.
You attempt to put fear in my heart because of this.
Why? I cant let people believe they are safe when they believe a lie and arent safe... and I cant put fear in your heart about this.. IF you have fear in your heart you must ask yourself.. Is it the Spirit of God convicting you of something.. The fear is there for a reason ... Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom and before honor is humility.The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.. Have you prayed about this? Have you prayed for wisdom regarding this? If you have are you sure you arent receiving an answer.. I would suggest you keep praying and reading the bible because the Spirit of Truth reveals ALL truth and He will reveal it to you.
Understand, faithfulservant, that I must be honest to both God and myself concerning this matter. Believeing that Jesus was God does not come easy for me, nor should it! Do you think fear will make me believe this? No, fear will not make me believe, but maybe a little guidence could.
You misunderstand Fear... the number one command God gives us in the bible is to fear not... but to fear HIM. Why would he tell you to fear Him? Jesus said And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Its a narrow path and small gate.. if all someone had to do to get through that gate was to believe Jesus was their savior... how narrow would that gate be... now if someone had to believe He was thier savior and thier God.. now thats quite a bit more you have to have faith in... we are saved by that faith.
lastly... John chapter one.. How can you possibly get past that... In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word WAS god... or learn greek and read it in greek because its the correct translation you can find it out for yourself. Cage.. Im all about delivering the message to save your soul.. not letting you believe a lie because thats what the enemy wants. Its done in love because If I didnt love you I wouldnt care what you believed.
You see Jesus as Gods equal, and he may very well be. I won't argue against your view, and I will try to understand it. I accept what Christ Jesus did for me, (All of us) and I Love him, but that isn't enough for you.
Why? Because Jesus said it wasnt enough... Do you not understand Him when He says that many will say they knew Him and He will say the He did not know them?? Do you not see when Thomas says to Jesus My Lord My God and Jesus said you believe me now.. but blessed are those who believe without seeing.. He is your creator He was the Lord God that walked and ate with Abraham.. He said that He and His Father are one... The fact that when we have children they are human when God had His child who would it be? Human or God... or both? We create like after like.
You attempt to put fear in my heart because of this.
Why? I cant let people believe they are safe when they believe a lie and arent safe... and I cant put fear in your heart about this.. IF you have fear in your heart you must ask yourself.. Is it the Spirit of God convicting you of something.. The fear is there for a reason ... Fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom and the knowledge of the Holy One is understanding. The fear of the Lord is the instruction of wisdom and before honor is humility.The fear of the Lord is the beginning of knowledge, But fools despise wisdom and instruction.. Have you prayed about this? Have you prayed for wisdom regarding this? If you have are you sure you arent receiving an answer.. I would suggest you keep praying and reading the bible because the Spirit of Truth reveals ALL truth and He will reveal it to you.
Understand, faithfulservant, that I must be honest to both God and myself concerning this matter. Believeing that Jesus was God does not come easy for me, nor should it! Do you think fear will make me believe this? No, fear will not make me believe, but maybe a little guidence could.
You misunderstand Fear... the number one command God gives us in the bible is to fear not... but to fear HIM. Why would he tell you to fear Him? Jesus said And do not fear those who kill the body but cannot kill the soul. But rather fear Him who is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Its a narrow path and small gate.. if all someone had to do to get through that gate was to believe Jesus was their savior... how narrow would that gate be... now if someone had to believe He was thier savior and thier God.. now thats quite a bit more you have to have faith in... we are saved by that faith.
lastly... John chapter one.. How can you possibly get past that... In the beginning was the word and the word was with god and the word WAS god... or learn greek and read it in greek because its the correct translation you can find it out for yourself. Cage.. Im all about delivering the message to save your soul.. not letting you believe a lie because thats what the enemy wants. Its done in love because If I didnt love you I wouldnt care what you believed.
Faithfulservant
Well-Known Member
I just want to say that we are supposed to be ready in and out of season to explain the hope that lies within using the word of God.... that goes with making sure we are delivering the message to all who inquire or seem curious.. that certainly means that I will do it here on CR if given the opportunity. Im not apologizing Im just saying that Im obeying my Lord.
pattimax
Somewhat returning
I hope he listens. (Cage)
BTW- Q (Joshua)," preacher" is a noun.
BTW- Q (Joshua)," preacher" is a noun.
Cage
Spirit Guided
Thomas, I've been reading your posts lately, and you seem quite knowlegable. Teh one above is inline with what I myself am beginning to understand, but I am clumsy in my speach, and perhaps pride is an issue that I need to consider.
On another thread, I was told that I would burn in hell because I didin't believe a certain way, and I let is bounce off of me for the most part, then after focusing on that a bit, I became a little angry at that attempt to put fear in my heart. I understand it was done because that is what this person believes, but its like a slap in the face when my mind will not let me believe like that. I didn't let fear into me because of this, I was merely angry at the attempt, ya know?
Much Love,
Dondi
Well-Known Member
Would it be hell enough to be forever apart from God, to wallow in our own distorted and sinful condition without love for eternity? To miss out of the opportunity that God gives in saving us from ourselves?
Would there not be an eternal burning in us to be apart from God? Would there not be darkness outside His Spirit of Light? Would not the worm of our sin never die, for our own spirit would get darker and darker as we futily try to find love in it? Would our thirst never be quenched for His Living Water?
It certainly give eternal life a whole new definition doesn't it?
"And this is life eternal, that they might know thee the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom thou hast sent." - John 17:3
Cage
Spirit Guided
I understand that what you believe, and what I believe are different, and only Jesus knows who HE knows. I see Jesus in a different light than you, but I understand what he did. I just don't understand how he can be God, and I'll work on that, but don't condemn to hell because my mind, or heart won't let me believe this at this time. Things will be known to me when I am ready, and if Jesus was infact God, then I must also have faith that that will be made known to me also...
You didn't put fear in my heart, but you attempted too, and that is what I was addressing. It angered me a little, but I know you did it innocently because you truly believe that I must in order to be saved. You and I have differing views on Salvation, I think? Also the fear of the Lord is not actual 'fear' in my mind, it is something else altogether. Soloman suggests that the fear of the Lord is something other than actual fear also.
Proverbs 2 1-5
1. My son, if thou wilt receive my words, and hide my commandments with thee;
2. So that thou incline thine ear unto wisdom, and apply thine heart to understanding;
3. Yea, if thou criest after knowledge, and liftest up thy voice for understanding;
4. If thou seekest her as silver, and searchest for her as for hid treasures;
5. Then shalt thou understand the fear of the Lord, and find the knowledge of God.
I might not be so wise, faithfulservant, but I think I understand what the fear of the Lord could be. It's not fear at all, but an understanding of how to approach God, and It can lead you to the knowledge of God if one lets it, imo. I'm still learning, as we all should continue learning, and I admit that God is more than Love, but Love is a good place to start, right?
I Love God, but I don't fear him...not any more. (Well, not so much) I did at one time, and it drove me nearly insane. The Love of the Lord is what I embrace, but I'm not rejecting what that Love entails. I have come to understand that his anger and wrath in the OT stems also from Love. I choose to walk in his love for us, and not in the ways of my own heart...if that makes any sense at all? His wrath, and anger are not for me to put my 'heart' in, but I can no longer reject them as qualities of God, either. He truly Loves who honor him...
I feel Jesus saved me through his life, and through the Spirit he sent to us after he died. Many people come, and believe that Jesus is their savior, but does that save them? I would lean towards no, but I am not God, or Jesus, so my view is somewhat void regarding this. How many, with every ounce of their being attempt to walk in the Love Jesus walked in? This for me is the straight gate, the narrow path, and the foundation for the temple. Its all in the commandments of how we are to live our lives. We stumble, we fall, and we are clumbsy, but Love keeps straight the path, imo.
So was the wisdom Soloman spoke of in Proverbs. It doesn't say that it was God, but it was certainly with God. Like I said, I'm not rjecting your view that Jesus was God, but I have to come to this realization in my own time. Otherwise, it won't stick, and that beleif won't be in my heart, but only my mind. I need to know it in my heart as opposed to 'think' it in my mind. I'm in no rush, things will be made clear to me, and in that I have faith also...
faithfulservant, thank you for a very thoughtful post. This is what will help those needing a push on their path. Pushing fear, and hell doctrines against non believers is not a very effective tactic, imo. It never has been, has it? The fear of the Lord is a key I believe, and when you understand it, you no longer 'fear' God, but begin to Love him as he loves you. Thanks again, faithfulsevant...
Much Love