are jesus and god equal?

[Thomas]

Hi Mee -

"stick to the bible , no manmade doctrines in sight for them..."

Two points:
Who determined what books went into the Bible?

+++

This is the inescapable fact of Tradition, to which Catholicism (East and West) adheres – that there was a Tradition teaching before there was a Scripture teaching – a stumbling block for all, as it is Tradition that determined what is and what is not Scripture, and Doctrine.

Thus we can see, from early church documents, that the Oral tradition of Christianity was always that Jesus is God, the Incarnate Son of the Father, and the Second Person of the Trinity – such are the creed statements in the baptismal Rites that date from the late first century – and any other teaching is a man-made doctrine.

Thomas

 

[BlaznFattyz]

many people think many things , but when they know the truth about what JW believe they realize that JW stick very closely to what the bible really teaches.

when watchtower dictates to jw's that jesus was a god among god, then that makes jw a polytheistic religion. unlike the truth which is god being one and in three persons: the father, son, and holy ghost.

 

[mee]

"All things are delivered to me by my Father. And no one knoweth the Son but the Father: neither doth any one know the Father, but the Son, and he to whom it shall please the Son to reveal him."
Matthew 11:27

"No man hath seen God at any time: the only begotten Son who is in the Bosom of the Father, he hath declared him."
John 1:18

If the Son is not God, then it would appear that the Son holds God to ransom.

If the Son is God, then every 'contradiction' of Scripture with regard to the revelation of the Person of God is explained – the Patriarchs, the Prophets ... all saw the Father through the Son, in the Spirit.

Thomas

yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah before he came to earth, thats why Jesus knows all about his father.he was taught by his father Jehovah.

 

[mee]

when watchtower dictates to jw's that jesus was a god among god, then that makes jw a polytheistic religion. unlike the truth which is god being one and in three persons: the father, son, and holy ghost.

the bible is our aurthority with no manmade doctrines added . the truth from the bible sets us free from babylon the great and its doctrines.

 

[Thomas]

yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah before he came to earth, thats why Jesus knows all about his father. he was taught by his father Jehovah.

And anything we know of the Father we were taught by the Son.

But the Father did not 'teach' the Son anything.
Father and Son were always One in the Trinity.

Thomas

 

[Dor]

the bible is our aurthority with no manmade doctrines added . the truth from the bible sets us free from babylon the great and its doctrines.

yes Mee lots of unbiblical manmade doctrine from WT organization. Including a mis-translated bible they changed to fit their doctrine.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

the bible is our aurthority with no manmade doctrines added . the truth from the bible sets us free from babylon the great and its doctrines.

are you implying that christianity which believes in God as the father, son, and holy spirit is babylon?

 

[mee]

yes Mee lots of unbiblical manmade doctrine from WT organization. Including a mis-translated bible they changed to fit their doctrine.

getting back to the original meanings is the way to go, then we have the pure word of God with out any age old traditions to cloud the thought.pure worship is clean worship in the eyes of Jehovah God ,and putting his name back in the bible where it rightly belongs is the right thing to do ,and Jehovah makes sure that these things are going to happen in this time of the end. its all happening in this time of the end.
(Proverbs 4:18) But the path of the righteous ones is like the bright light that is getting lighter and lighter until the day is firmly established.
(Psalm 97:11) Light itself has flashed up for the righteous one, And rejoicing even for the ones upright in heart................. faithfulness to Gods word leads to great blessings especially in the last days
"And as for you, O Daniel, make secret the words and seal up the book, until the time of [the] end. Many will rove about, and the [true] knowledge will become abundant."...............yes true knowledge is now abundant indeed. praise Jah.
(Daniel 12:9) And he went on to say: "Go, Daniel, because the words are made secret and sealed up until the time of [the] end. ........not only do Jehovahs people have an accurate translation they have been blessed with understanding also............and all of the praise goes to the most high Jehovah PSALM 83;18

 

[mee]

are you implying that christianity which believes in God as the father, son, and holy spirit is babylon?

its always wise to check if our beliefs are tainted with babylonish teachings ,i am glad to say that true christianity does not have any babylonish teachings attached to it .true christianity knows that Jehovah is the almighty most high PSALM 83;18 and Jesus is his only -begotten son John 3;16and the holy spirit is the active force of God.accurate knowledge about Jehovah and Jesus leads to everlasting lifeJohn 17;3

 

[BlaznFattyz]

its always wise to check if our beliefs are tainted with babylonish teachings ,i am glad to say that true christianity does not have any babylonish teachings attached to it .true christianity knows that Jehovah is the almighty most high PSALM 83;18 and Jesus is his only -begotten son John 3;16and the holy spirit is the active force of God.accurate knowledge about Jehovah and Jesus leads to everlasting lifeJohn 17;3

no, that sounds more like the definition of the cult known as jw. mainstream christianity believes in one god (father, son, holy ghost).

 

[Quahom1]

yes Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father Jehovah before he came to earth, thats why Jesus knows all about his father.he was taught by his father Jehovah.

Then by your own words, you confirm that Jesus is a god seperate from the Father God, hence this is what is defined as polytheism. Furthermore, if a god has a beginning (e.g. being created by another), then it could be argued that the same god has a potential ending, or that god, no matter how powerful, is still a finite being.

Frankly that concept flies in the face of everything Jesus ever said about Himself. It also contradicts the alleged jeasoulsy that God the Father declared about His absolute soveriegnty in the OT.

Logically, this is a paradox, or one of the two are lying. But God can not lie...and there can not exist a paradox.

Considering that Christianity is supposed be about clarity and understanding the purpose God has for us, and the First Commandmant specifically states:

"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me." ...

there can not be two gods. Not even a Big God and lesser god.

 

[mee]

no, that sounds more like the definition of the cult known as jw. mainstream christianity believes in one god (father, son, holy ghost).

sticking to the bible we cant go wrong Psalm 83;18 John 3;16;
This means everlasting life, their taking in knowledge of you, the only true God, and of the one whom you sent forth, Jesus Christ." (John 17:1-3) Jesus did not claim to be "the only true God. if we stick to the bible it leads to everlasting life.adding manmade docrines such as the trinity is verrrrry bad in the eyes of the most high.
Paul, at 2 Timothy 4:3, 4, foretold that at a future time people would willingly turn aside to false stories in preference to the truth. and they certainly did just that by listening to false teachers and taking on the trinity doctrine.

 

[mee]

Then by your own words, you confirm that Jesus is a god seperate from the Father God, hence this is what is defined as polytheism. Furthermore, if a god has a beginning (e.g. being created by another), then it could be argued that the same god has a potential ending, or that god, no matter how powerful, is still a finite being.

Frankly that concept flies in the face of everything Jesus ever said about Himself. It also contradicts the alleged jeasoulsy that God the Father declared about His absolute soveriegnty in the OT.

Logically, this is a paradox, or one of the two are lying. But God can not lie...and there can not exist a paradox.

Considering that Christianity is supposed be about clarity and understanding the purpose God has for us, and the First Commandmant specifically states:

"I am the Lord your God, who brought you out of the land of Egypt, out of the house of slavery; you shall have no other gods before me." ...

there can not be two gods. Not even a Big God and lesser god.

yes as you say there is only one Almighty God and that is the most high Jehovah psalm 83;18 and he sent his son ,his only -begotten son John 3;16 Jesus was the only thing in the universe that was created by Jehovah alone ,everything else was created through his son Jesus. Jesus was a master worker he had a great teacher to learn from. yes as the whole of the bible informs us Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father before he came to the earth.
The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son. yes the bible harmonizes throughout when translated in the right way .

(Genesis 1:26) And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." yes, here God is talking to Jesus in his pre-human state.​

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence​

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.​

(Colossians 1:16) because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.
Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. proverbs 8 ;22yes , Jesus in his pre-human life was around
When he (God)prepared the heavens I(Jesus) was there .proverbs 8;27

(Psalm 33:6) By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, And by the spirit of his mouth all their army............yes Jesus had a great teacher and the power to create everything came from his father Jehovah .​

(Jeremiah 10:12) He is the Maker of the earth by his power, the One firmly establishing the productive land by his wisdom, and the One who by his understanding stretched out the heavens..................yes Jesus was a master worker because his wisdom came from the most high Jehovah. as proverbs 8;30 says

then I came to be beside him as a master worker,
Or, "a fosterling." Heb., ’a·mohn´; T, "proving faithful"; LXX, "acting suitably"; Vg, "composing all things."
and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,

 

[BlaznFattyz]

...adding manmade docrines such as the trinity is verrrrry bad in the eyes of the most high...Paul...foretold that at a future time people would willingly turn aside to false stories in preference to the truth. and they certainly did just that by listening to false teachers and taking on the trinity doctrine.

your association of manmade doctrine and babylon with christian teaching and understanding that god is revealed as three persons, to me is an incorrect association. i see that false teaching is getting away from the word of god and making one's own religion by picking and choosing and twisting the words of the bible to fit their lifestyle, and to denying christ his divinity and taking a shortcut around the saviour and his death and resurrection.

 

[Quahom1]

the bible is our aurthority with no manmade doctrines added . the truth from the bible sets us free from babylon the great and its doctrines.

Who is Babylon the great and what is its doctrines?

 

[mee]

i see that false teaching is getting away from the word of god and making one's own religion by picking and choosing and twisting the words of the bible

yes ,as you say twisting scripture, the trinity certainly has done that, and it has gone away from true bible teaching. false indeed.

 

[BlaznFattyz]

yes ,as you say twisting scripture, the trinity certainly has done that, and it has gone away from true bible teaching. false indeed.

no, that is not what i said, i was referring more to jw's and the wt's recent reinterpretation of the bible as well as other cults using the name christianity and the fumbling that has come from it.

the trinity comes directly from the bible, even the spirit, on the revelation of god to man and that is the truth. god is the father, son, and holy ghost and it is the truth.

For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The grace and glory of God is seen through Jesus Christ; jesus is salvation, jesus is great, jesus redeems us. There is no way to God the Father, but through the Son that laid down his life, died, and resurrected so that we might have life through him.

 

[mee]

Who is Babylon the great and what is its doctrines?

Babylon the great is ...........the worldwide empire of false religion. the reason she is called babylon the great is because her doctrines are all based and have there roots in babylonish teachings . many different religions have their roots in babylonish teachings, but christendom is the most guilty as she claims to worship the God of the bible, but her doctrines are not based on true bible teachings they are steeped in babylonish doctrines. if we look at ancient babylon we can see the same things going on in false religion .
Though Babylon has long since ceased to exist as a world power, religious Babylon the Great lives on, and after the ancient pattern, she still seeks to influence and mold political affairs. But does God approve of religion in politics?
The call to "get out of her" had been set down in Revelation 18:4. There was a like call set down earlier in Jeremiah 51:45: "Get out of the midst of her, O my people, and provide each one his soul with escape from the burning anger of Jehovah." there is only one way to escape Jehovahs anger in these last days,and that is to get out of babylon the great and to let Jehovah take us in.babylon the great has fallen in that she nolonger has any power over Gods people.but her end is very near

 

[Quahom1]

yes as you say there is only one Almighty God and that is the most high Jehovah psalm 83;18 and he sent his son ,his only -begotten son John 3;16 Jesus was the only thing in the universe that was created by Jehovah alone ,everything else was created through his son Jesus. Jesus was a master worker he had a great teacher to learn from. yes as the whole of the bible informs us Jesus had a pre-human life in the heavens with his father before he came to the earth.
The person who became known as Jesus Christ did not begin life here on earth. He himself spoke of his prehuman heavenly life. (Joh 3:13; 6:38, 62; 8:23, 42, 58) John 1:1, 2 gives the heavenly name of the one who became Jesus, saying: "In the beginning the Word [Gr., Lo´gos] was, and the Word was with God, and the Word was a god ["was divine," AT; Mo; or "of divine being," Böhmer; Stage (both German)]. This one was in the beginning with God." Since Jehovah is eternal and had no beginning (Ps 90:2; Re 15:3), the Word’s being with God from "the beginning" must here refer to the beginning of Jehovah’s creative works. This is confirmed by other texts identifying Jesus as "the firstborn of all creation," "the beginning of the creation by God." (Col 1:15; Re 1:1; 3:14) Thus the Scriptures identify the Word (Jesus in his prehuman existence) as God’s first creation, his firstborn Son. yes the bible harmonizes throughout when translated in the right way .

(Genesis 1:26) And God went on to say: "Let us make man in our image, according to our likeness, and let them have in subjection the fish of the sea and the flying creatures of the heavens and the domestic animals and all the earth and every moving animal that is moving upon the earth." yes, here God is talking to Jesus in his pre-human state.​

(John 1:3) All things came into existence through him, and apart from him not even one thing came into existence. What has come into existence​

(John 17:5) So now you, Father, glorify me alongside yourself with the glory that I had alongside you before the world was.​

(Colossians 1:16) because by means of him all [other] things were created in the heavens and upon the earth, the things visible and the things invisible, no matter whether they are thrones or lordships or governments or authorities. All [other] things have been created through him and for him.
Jehovah himself produced me as the beginning of his way, the earliest of his achievements of long ago. proverbs 8 ;22yes , Jesus in his pre-human life was around
When he (God)prepared the heavens I(Jesus) was there .proverbs 8;27

(Psalm 33:6) By the word of Jehovah the heavens themselves were made, And by the spirit of his mouth all their army............yes Jesus had a great teacher and the power to create everything came from his father Jehovah .​

(Jeremiah 10:12) He is the Maker of the earth by his power, the One firmly establishing the productive land by his wisdom, and the One who by his understanding stretched out the heavens..................yes Jesus was a master worker because his wisdom came from the most high Jehovah. as proverbs 8;30 says

then I came to be beside him as a master worker,
Or, "a fosterling." Heb., ’a·mohn´; T, "proving faithful"; LXX, "acting suitably"; Vg, "composing all things."
and I came to be the one he was specially fond of day by day, I being glad before him all the time,

You skirted the issue...there can not be two gods. Yet you say there can be. justify this please: "Jehovah is Almighty God, and Jesus is a Mighty God..."

v/r

Joshua

 

[mee]

no, that is not what i said, i was referring more to jw's and the wt's recent reinterpretation of the bible as well as other cults using the name christianity and the fumbling that has come from it.

the trinity comes directly from the bible, even the spirit, on the revelation of god to man and that is the truth. god is the father, son, and holy ghost and it is the truth.

For the grace of God that brings salvation hath appeared to all men, Teaching us that, denying ungodliness and worldly lusts, we should live soberly, righteously, and godly, in this present world; Looking for that blessed hope, and the glorious appearing of the great God and our Savior Jesus Christ; Who gave himself for us, that he might redeem us from all iniquity, and purify unto himself a peculiar people, zealous of good works.

The grace and glory of God is seen through Jesus Christ; jesus is salvation, jesus is great, jesus redeems us. There is no way to God the Father, but through the Son that laid down his life, died, and resurrected so that we might have life through him.

yes ,Jesus is the way the truth and the life. what a wonderful hope awaits those who listen to Jesus .
(Luke 9:35) And a voice came out of the cloud, saying: "This is my Son, the one that has been chosen. Listen to him."
"Also, there was a voice from the heavens that said: ‘This is my Son, the beloved, whom I have approved.’"—MATTHEW 3:17.yes if we listen to Jesus we cant go wrong