are jesus and god equal?

mee said:
if you look to the model prayer that Jesus taught his followers it will be quite clear , sticking to the bible is the way to go.
first things first. It states: "Let your name be sanctified." (Matthew 6:9) Yes, the sanctification of Jehovah’s name should be of primary concern to us because we love him and hate to see all the reproach that has been heaped upon his name. Satan’s rebellion and his inducing the first human couple to disobey Jehovah God slandered His name by calling into question the way God was exercising his universal sovereignty. (Genesis 3:1-6) Furthermore, through the centuries, Jehovah’s name has been reproached by the shameful acts and teachings of those claiming to represent him.
Since the peace of the universe and its inhabitants depends on the sanctification of Jehovah’s name and loving submission to his sovereignty, our prayer "let your name be sanctified" is an expression of our confidence that Jehovah’s purpose will be fulfilled to his praise.—Ezekiel 38:23.
The second petition in the model prayer is: "Let your kingdom come." (Matthew 6:10) This request is closely related to the preceding one. Jehovah’s instrument for sanctifying his holy name is the Messianic Kingdom, his heavenly government, of which his Son, Jesus Christ, is the duly appointed King. (Psalm 2:1-9)
In his model prayer, Christ taught us to pray for the coming of God’s Kingdom. The fulfillment of Bible prophecy indicates that the Messianic Kingdom was established in heaven in 1914. Is it, therefore, still appropriate for us to pray for that Kingdom to "come"? Certainly. For in Daniel’s prophecy, the Messianic Kingdom, symbolized by a stone, is on a collision course with human political governments, symbolized by an immense image. The stone will yet come against that image, striking it a blow that will reduce it to powder. Daniel’s prophecy says: "The kingdom itself will not be passed on to any other people. It will crush and put an end to all these kingdoms, and it itself will stand to times indefinite."—Daniel 2:44.
We long to see God’s Kingdom come against Satan’s wicked system of things because this will mean the sanctification of Jehovah’s holy name and the removal of all opposers of divine sovereignty. We fervently pray: "Let your kingdom come," and with the apostle John, we say: "Amen! Come, Lord Jesus." (Revelation 22:20) Yes, may Jesus come to sanctify Jehovah’s name and vindicate His sovereignty, so that the psalmist’s words may come true: "That people may know that you, whose name is Jehovah, you alone are the Most High over all the earth."—Psalm 83:18.
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Do you pray to Jesus? Why or why not?
 
Silas said:
Do you pray to Jesus? Why or why not?
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Silas,

Doesn't it seem obvious to you what his answer is from his first sentence?
The Father of course by name because of the model prayer Jesus gave. Will you entice him to say the same in longer words than he did? Mee puts a lot of work in his posts. Might as well read them.

Love,
JM
 
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Jesus, the word, the son of god, the lord and saviour is an expression of the unseen God (John 1:18), he reveals to man the true nature of God (Matthew 11:27), he makes us to understand the true nature of God (Hebrews 1:1-2), and he transforms those who will listen to Him (John 1:12).

Jesus being the word of god is eternal, not created, but the creator (John 1:3). He is the person of the Godhead who directly created all things (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:15-16; Hebrews 1:2; 2:9-10; Psalm 33:6; Hebrews 11:3). Jesus as the word of god was there in the beginning of creation (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 1:10), he is the beginning of God’s way (Proverbs 8:22-23), he is the beginning of beginnings (John 17:5, 24). Jesus the word already was; that is, he already existed (Micah 5:2; John 8:58); therfore, He is co-eternal with the Father (Psalm 90:2)
 
BlaznFattyz said:
Jesus, the word, the son of god, the lord and saviour is an expression of the unseen God (John 1:18), he reveals to man the true nature of God (Matthew 11:27), he makes us to understand the true nature of God (Hebrews 1:1-2), and he transforms those who will listen to Him (John 1:12).

Jesus being the word of god is eternal, not created, but the creator (John 1:3). He is the person of the Godhead who directly created all things (Ephesians 3:9; Colossians 1:15-16; Hebrews 1:2; 2:9-10; Psalm 33:6; Hebrews 11:3). Jesus as the word of god was there in the beginning of creation (Genesis 1:1; Hebrews 1:10), he is the beginning of God’s way (Proverbs 8:22-23), he is the beginning of beginnings (John 17:5, 24). Jesus the word already was; that is, he already existed (Micah 5:2; John 8:58); therfore, He is co-eternal with the Father (Psalm 90:2)
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1 Cor. 15:28 clearly demonstrates the subordination of Jesus to the Father!
 
Subordination in perfect relationship as Father and Son. But Jesus is still nonetheless God and coequal to God (John 10:30). Is it so hard to understand that God became a man, and as a man, obeyed His Father by fulfilling the Law which men broke, then he may be the propetiation for all those who trust in Him, thereby making those men justified before God?
 
Silas said:
Subordination in perfect relationship as Father and Son. But Jesus is still nonetheless God and coequal to God (John 10:30). Is it so hard to understand that God became a man, and as a man, obeyed His Father by fulfilling the Law which men broke, then he may be the propetiation for all those who trust in Him, thereby making those men justified before God?
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In my dictionary "subordination" and "co-equal" are mutually exclusive terms.
 
Mine as well! Yet still, it is not nonesesnsical or a violation of the law of noncontradiction to say that Jesus is both subordinate to God and is still co-equal. Here's how:

Jesus is 100% God and 100% Man. He is the God-man. Behold the hypostatic Union - The Son of God - Jesus the Christ - The one whom the mystery of the Godhead indwells bodily.

In His humilation, where He left His Glory, God came as a man. What a quantum leap that was! In His humility, Christ fulfilled the Law and lived a perfect life and died a perfect death and then rose on the 3rd day to validate His Claims and vindicate all those who would trust and believe in Him. If by the grace of God you would understand man's depraved state, you'd understand why God came, suffered, and died and then rose again.

That said though, you can see the Godhead will recieve all the glory in anyone's converstion. The Father choooses a people, the Son's blood purchased them (they have been justified because their sins were imputed to Christ and Christ' righteousness have been imputed to them), and the Spirit seals them and leads them. So again we see the Son subordinate to the will of the Father and the Spirit in obedience to the Son. Though there are distintion within roles, all persons of the trinity are coequal and coeternal and thus the makeup of God.
 
Rather a convoluted way to get at the truth? This what made the early Christians anathematize and hate each other. While I have sympathy for the Trinitarian doctrine, I feel more like the Arian doctrine is closer to the truth. I'll agree that if the Bible "only" is taken as a whole, the Trinitarian view is the most probable, but I have to appeal to the "Church Fathers," including the presbyter Arius, and Tradition for the full summation of the truth.
 
bupanishad2007 said:
1 Cor. 15:28 clearly demonstrates the subordination of Jesus to the Father!
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1.) in the beginning was the word, the word was with god, the word was god.
then...
2.) the word became flesh, emptied himself, became a servant and died for our sins.
then...
3.) resurrected and exhalted back to glory he had with the father from the beginning.

i think your subordination is stuck somewhere when he physically emptied himself of his glory becoming fully man and was under the law of god because he was a man, but he was also fully god and could do things that only god could do. You are missing the point that he was with god as god before creation. he came as god in the flesh to not do the will of some religious leader with his own agenda, but to do the will of god, and is now back to glory with god as god. for some who knew of him before he was born on earth, and for those who knew him when he was on earth, and know him now--he was always the messiah, lord, king, and god and was and is worshipped accordingly.
 
bupanishad2007 said:
Rather a convoluted way to get at the truth? This what made the early Christians anathematize and hate each other. While I have sympathy for the Trinitarian doctrine, I feel more like the Arian doctrine is closer to the truth. I'll agree that if the Bible "only" is taken as a whole, the Trinitarian view is the most probable, but I have to appeal to the "Church Fathers," including the presbyter Arius, and Tradition for the full summation of the truth.
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Only convoluted to those lacking spiritual maturity or those altogether spiritually dead; and thus should be trembling for they are still children of Adam and heirs of wrath. Its been said that "The unspiritual man does not receive the gifts of the Spirit of God, for they are folly to him, and he is not able to understand them because they are spiritually discerned (1Cor 2:14).
 
sorry i have just posted in wrong thread , so i have got rid of it:eek:
 
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