Ooparts & Ancient High Tech--Evidence of Noah's Flood?

[iBrian]

Vestigal organs are best explained by evolution. Anyone claiming "intelligent design" from the palmaris longus, levator claviculae, latissimo condyloideus, small psoas, acrimio-basilar muscle, sternalis muscle, rectus muscle, or azygous lobe has never done the research and are just "aping" creationists.

"Intelligent Design" as a general concept has nothing against Evolution as part of a dynamic process. However, Creationism has seen fit to hijack the term "Intelligent Design" and imply it is a static 'one moment creates all' sort of idea, which is a gross mis-representation on an otherwise respectable part of metaphysical philosophy.

Btw - do you have a reference for the "Holocene wet period"? Sounds interesting.

 

[Nogodnomasters]

"Intelligent Design" as a general concept has nothing against Evolution as part of a dynamic process. However, Creationism has seen fit to hijack the term "Intelligent Design" and imply it is a static 'one moment creates all' sort of idea, which is a gross mis-representation on an otherwise respectable part of metaphysical philosophy.

Btw - do you have a reference for the "Holocene wet period"? Sounds interesting.

I typed it into my search engine and got 545 pages of hits for "Holocene Wet Period".

 

[iBrian]

Ah, yes - went to Google - it's just the 3000 BC period. I thought it was going to be something earlier.

I'm not sure that there is a consensus that there was a sudden wet period - my reading has been that there was an implicit climate change around 3000 BC that saw a lot of the Middle East dry up - not least the Sahara, which had otherwise been grassy plains until then.

Important point about the climate change is that it likely played a founding role in the civilisation of Egypt and Mesopotamia.

Certainly there have been period floods at specific geographical locations. Trying to tie them all into a global event is likely imitating the Genesis model too closely. Periodic rare major floods over the world makes much more sense than a single event of which there is no evidence.

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Peculiar American obsession

Namaste all.

Please forgive my ignorance.

I have always had the impression that the debate shrill at that against evolution is a peculiarly American phenomenon from generally Biblical literalist Christians.

Please, tell me, the more knowledgeable and learned people in this website, do you encounter such heated-up opposition against evolution from other Christians around the world, like in Europe and in South America or in Westernized Africa. Let me know, for my personal enlightenment. Give me the Internet references.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[Nogodnomasters]

Ah, yes - went to Google - it's just the 3000 BC period. I thought it was going to be something earlier.

I'm not sure that there is a consensus that there was a sudden wet period - my reading has been that there was an implicit climate change around 3000 BC that saw a lot of the Middle East dry up - not least the Sahara, which had otherwise been grassy plains until then.

Important point about the climate change is that it likely played a founding role in the civilisation of Egypt and Mesopotamia.

Certainly there have been period floods at specific geographical locations. Trying to tie them all into a global event is likely imitating the Genesis model too closely. Periodic rare major floods over the world makes much more sense than a single event of which there is no evidence.

I concur Brian. When I isolated the original text of Noah, there was no mention of a world wide flood, and no Mt. Ararat either. I have conclude the world wide aspect was added later. I will say that the "local flooding" should not be taken lightly. These were severe floods.


Israel's Mt. Sedom is a salt formation and changes in precipitation on the mountain can be measured by observing the width of caves formed by salt dissolution. The cave widths can in turn be compared with glacial advances (bigger caves = more rain = more glaciers) and with sea levels of the Dead Sea. Mount Sedom, otherwise known as Mt. Sodom, said to be the site of the famous biblical event -- is a salt formation bordering on the Dead Sea. Recent studies by Amos Nur at Stanford University suggest that the area was affected by an earthquake in 3100 BCE. This seems to correspond with the biblical event. Changes in precipitation on the mountain can be measured by observing the width of caves formed by salt dissolution. The cave widths can in turn be compared with glacial advances (bigger caves = more rain = more glaciers) and with sea levels of the Dead Sea. The Wide caves on the face of the "mountain" located some 300 feet above the present sea level indicate an extremely wet period a millennium before this. Oak twigs and driftwood found in the caves must have been transported by floodwaters from some other part of the shore many miles away since oak trees do not grow in salt. Evidently the water level was some 300 feet higher at this time, implying heavy flooding on the Jordan River and lower evaporation rates due to cooler weather. No other event in the last ten thousand years matches this. The oak twigs have been dated by radiocarbon technique at 4350 + or - 75 RCYBP. In the Negev Desert large underground sites were uncovered where a group of people lived in the Chalcolithic (copper) age. They lived underground. They made copper weapons. Ashes indicate they were at war with some of the local tribes. In 4200 B.C.E. they were forced out of their underground dwellings because they were living in a flood plane. The Bible claims “giants” or “Nefeel” lived underground. The Hebrew word “nefeel,” also translates as “bully” or “tyrant.” “Rapha” is the word normally used in the Bible for “giant.” “Nefeel” is a rare word used only twice in the Bible. The word “tyrant” is a better translation than “giant” as these men “became mighty” and “renown.”

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Tall stories and urban legends

The Bible claims “giants” or “Nefeel” lived underground. The Hebrew word “nefeel,” also translates as “bully” or “tyrant.” “Rapha” is the word normally used in the Bible for “giant.” “Nefeel” is a rare word used only twice in the Bible. The word “tyrant” is a better translation than “giant” as these men “became mighty” and “renown.

Even though Christians want to take the Bible seriously; nonetheless, as their apologists remind us continuously, God speaks in the Bible the way men speak.

On this account, there are countless tall stories and urban legends in the Bible. You have to read everything with a sack of salt.


Susma Rio Sep

 

[wil]

Always is a shame when folks get caught up in the literal of the bible, studying along being happily convinced and then when as the literal falls apart they throw it all away.

Ooparts is a site with some interesting stuff, too bad it has an agenda and everything has to prove its agenda rather then the truth be explored.

 

[citizenzen]

I also believe that for the moment modern science completely fails to appreicate the monumental complexity of genetics - there is a nasty habit of treating individual genes as individual on-off switches for individual attributes/traits. Of course, I try to tackle all this head on in my writing - and that includes presenting possible solutions.

I don't know what scientific literature you've been reading lately, but this hasn't been my experience.

The function of "junk" DNA, the interaction between proteins and DNA and other issues are routinely brought up in this discussion. I think we're well beyond the point of thinking, "I turn this gene on... I get this result."

 

[iBrian]

I should certainly hope science has progressed in the 6 years since I made that post.

 

[citizenzen]

I should certainly hope science has progressed in the 6 years since I made that post.

Geez... I didn't even notice the date.

I hope I've progressed in those last six years too.

Little evidence of that though.