Question

Wil

So since they were gay, since they were born gay, G-d gave them a depraved mind.

I never said they were born gay. I said they choose to deny obvious truth and God gave them over to a depraved mind. Everyone is born sinners and have within us the abilty to be every sinful thing under the sun. Every sin is a choice.

Romans seems to be a stretch, I don't believe it contains such circular logic.

Whether you believe it or not its there and explicit. "God gave them over to a depraved mind." That pharse is there all over the chapter.

But your question and your answer do imply the same thing.

Thats because you assumed that I meant something other than what I said.

G-d made them gay.

God does not make anyone sin. He is light and in Him there is no darkness.

Or consider something wild, like a title pertaining to your topic, and your making a statement of your distilled thought or your thought and a question rather than simply setting mousetraps?

Whats that?
 
Dor said:
Actually for anyone to say they can not help being gay is them limiting what God can do.

He can help us all with anything and everything.
The problem with most of mankind is the inability for people to take themself off the throne and let him be in charge of them.

IMO that is also why so many people make up there own version of Christianity*well in name at least*
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I agree with this ("I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me...").

I only pray that I will let G-d be the judge and that I will remember to pluck the beam from my own eye first...
 
it would be funny if God came to meet with us and he was wearing leather chaps and a leather cap... and lived in 'Frisco...
 
Prober said:
I agree with this ("I can do all things through Christ which strengtheneth me...").

I only pray that I will let G-d be the judge and that I will remember to pluck the beam from my own eye first...
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Thats first thing I do every morning is look at the beam in my eye and what I do wrong and have problems with.
 
In the story of Lot, I believe that Sodom was NOT condemned for anal sex, but was condemned because the people of Sodom condemned the judgement of others, and especially judgement by foreigners. Lot was found righteous in the eyes of God, a man who as a foreigner judged the actions of the people of Sodom, and who offered his daughters to the wolves without their consent, and who later drunkenly impregnated two of his daughters outside of marriage. Yet, Sodom was condemned and I find that verse Genesis 19:9 is the real key to understanding why. The people of Sodom threatened to condemn a foreigner for his judgement of their actions. There is also a contrast between Lot and the people of Sodom in the treatment of the foreign angels. It was after the threat of condemnation that the angels blinded the people of Sodom, and then God condemned the town.

So whether the untranslated version of the story truly refers to a town full of people bent on having anal sex (NIV) with angels, or to 'know' (KJV) the foreign angels against their will, and whether God favors drunken incest over anal sex to the point of condemnation... I don't think that is what the story is about. But I do know from Jesus that judgement is met with judgement and condemnation may be met with condemnation. The story of Lot fits those words.

The issue of gay marriage in the USA is over a tax break. There is no law preventing two people of the same sex from living together, sharing vows, adopting kids, or having whatever form of sex they prefer. There is discrimination on many different levels in the IRS tax code. Discrimination by income. Not just a marriage that might have kids, but owning a home, the number of children, giving to charity, owning an electric car, etc... In the NT Jesus reports that angels don't get married. Yet the nuns and people who renounce sex and marriage for themselves do not get a tax break? Singles pay extra? The single mom who can't get a spouse pays more? If all the nuns claim a 'marriage with God' to the IRS, what shall be the response? AND yet if everyone gets the tax break, what was the purpose of the government's discrimination in the first place? To promote babies? Why then does a convicted felon get free room and board with free security, does not pay a single dime in taxes, but has NO CHANCE to have and raise children... yet a man without a house on the street is forced to pay taxes to support the convicted felon and does not get the tax break that the home owner gets?

Based on the story of Lot, I say Judge away either for or against gay marriage... judge what is right but DO NOT CONDEMN those who DO NOT CONDEMN. I believe that consent is more important than gender in any agreement, and thus an agreement of a TAX break should somehow involve the consent of every single TAX payer. For that matter I believe, before God, all taxes should rightfully involve the consent of every tax payer.
 
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