Arrogance is fairly easy to spot, but this doesn't make it fruitful to judge another based on what we see. I think pride comes into play when we do this, as we put ourselves above that arrogance, and look down on the person in question. When we attribute such negative faculties on someone, we in turn deny them of their own worthy contributions...we shut them out so to speak. There is no fruit from such behavior, only lack of understanding, imo. Besides, none are perfect and to point out anothers shortcomings directly is to deny that we have our own.
I ask the questions I do because I have felt ashamed being pleased with self in the past. I don't like feeling ashamed, and it is futile to try to shame another. These are products of pride, and it goes both ways. To feel shame because of anothers actions or to try to cause shame on purpose both stem from an unhealthy sense of pride. I think it good to bring to mind that which is worthy, but to point fingers directly, and boast is another thing altogether.
I disagree. I think you have artificially turned your original post from pride into your desire to think that judgement, rebuke, and feeling shamed or guilty are bad.
If a person says to you, "What a great contribution... you are a wonderful person", I bet that it feels good somewhere. If a person says to you, "That was nasty... why are you being so mean?" I bet that it feels bad somewhere. I find that most people, self included, have a part of them that feels good that someone else likes what they see in them, and that same part feels bad that someone dislikes what they see in them. BUT at least that part listens! That is the complete opposite of the discussion of an arrogant pride that does NOT listen to others, but seeks self-evaluation, maybe to feel good but blindly if necessary, and the ears are made deaf as a result. So why put down the complete opposite for fear of a dislike, of being ashamed, a poor evaluation, a disagreeable opinion, a bad grade, a rejection, a fear of manipulation, a feeling of guilt, etc... I submit that by putting down the external evaluation or judgement by others, that we are promoting self-evaluation. Who needs eyes and ears for that? Ultimately what is being put down is placing Faith into others.
Shaming others and feeling ashamed: I find that rather than a product of pride, that it is just an internal evaluation too. There are billions of neurons in my brain that I did not author. It was someone else or something else that authored those neurons... from anywhere I have looked or listened, or anytime somebody spoke to me. If I purposely corrupt those neurons then I am a liar to myself. So instead I try to understand those neurons, which I have to feed, breathe, and sleep for daily just to keep them alive. In trying to understand those neurons, I make comparisons. Whether it is called an evalutaion or a judgement, the product of those comparisons MIGHT result in a feeling of joy, or of feeling ashamed, of guilt, happiness, anger, hope, fear, etc... as a result of something discovered by the comparison. It is still my comparison, my judgement, or my evaluation even though part of it came from someone else. While others make judgements or external evaluations based on what they see in me, and they author those neurons inside of my brain... it is my choice to listen to them and to make the comparison between the neurons. I do so because I wish to be honest with myself, and I find that most people do. So what should I do when the comparison comes up negative and I find part of myself in agreement with another person, thus feeling ashamed? Should I put down the author of those neurons for being judgemental against me? Nonsense... I made the comparison and if the comparison came up that I have sinned, or that I should feel ashamed, then the best remedy is to say, "I agree... I'm sorry... I think I was wrong... I have sinned". << Poof >>... no more shame. The shame is gone. If the shame manifested in the first place then there must have been a reason. Fundamental to that << Poof >> is that I believe a person can change. Either I need to look more closely inside of myself and understand the reason for the shame, or I need to admit to what I see and seek forgiveness for my mistakes. Either way a guilty feeling is not going to hang around for long... I have got better things to do. But a feeling of guilt or shame is NOT going to go away by denying it or by putting down the author of the neurons that helped to discover something.
I find that a person should feel ashamed when someone in their community commits a crime. It gets back to the OT in the blood or guilt sacrifices, or the parable of the goats and the lambs, but I submit that the group of people in a community or church are partly responsible when a person commits a crime (a sin). Likewise, the parents are partly responsible when their children commit a crime (a sin). I find this is not necessarily for what the parents or the community have DONE... but often for what the parents or community have NOT done. In realizing that, it changes the equation. So I suggest that it is not necessarily futile to feel ashamed for another's actions, or to rebuke and try to cause shame in others.
Does shaming or rebuking others come from pride? I had noticed that was your claim soon after I rebuked someone here for a racist statement. I think you are essentially pre-judging a person's intent, for what a person thinks is theirs or is responsible for.
For example, like your cousin I once paid my way through college, purchased books, etc. Yet instead of feeling pride, I placed pride and monetary value in those who spent their lives researching, documenting, and teaching to others what they have learned. I placed value in their achievements. I didn't author the books, I purchased them. I didn't develop their theories, I read them. I placed more value in those minds who developed so many things, and in those people willing to spend a life teaching it to others, than I did in my own. I paid those professors to even judge me, to rebuke me when I got a wrong answer or when I did not turn in the homework (or slept through a test). So shouldn't the university or the professor be proud if their students go on to develop rewarding careers from their work? Shouldn't likewise the parent be proud of their children through their achievements? On the one hand you have claimed that it is NOT the parent's or university's achievement to have educated students, but instead that it is your cousin who sought and achieved his education, while on the other hand you have indirectly revealed that it IS the parent's or university's achievement through their judgements, rebukes, and praises of their students. Well, which is it? I find that it is both because both were required. So is the motivation of anyone who judges another's words or actions, like the parent or the professor, trying to elevate or to degrade themselves through the achievements or the sins of others? I agree that it is possible, but not necessarily. I have found parents who try to live through their children. I can't really judge their intent, but if someone did not do it, then your cousin would have no education for you or the cousin to be proud of.
