Alternate Realities/Alternate Universes

[Quahom1]

Now, of course, under the conditions which we were disucssing before, with many alternate universes or realities, this could easily be possible when you take into consideration all the universes together - different things would be true in each universe or reality, creating the possibility that within the conglomerate that everything (or all things) are true. But, can any of you see any way that all things could be true - brought about by the diverse beliefs of the sentient beings within that one universe or reality...?

Hmm, of course all things can be true symultaneously, they just can't be true in the same space. For example, if I were to step back to yesterday (remember time travel is considered feasable, just not probable), I could exist well enough, just as long as I did not meet my past version of self, that is as long as I did not touch my former self. No two identical objects can exist in the same space, and the same time (but then, that would be no problem, because we are different physically from day to day, with cells replacing cells). Another thought, If there is an identical universe to ours, only this one is a mirror image of the other. My heart is on the left side of my chest, however my counterpart's heart is on the left side of his chest (from his perspective). From my point of view, his heart would be on the right side of his chest...which perspective would be correct?

And what about the elusive "anti-matter" concept? Identical universes, only everything about the sub-atomic level is reversed. Electrons have postivie charges, and protons have negative charges. If the barrier between the two universes were to be breached, and an identical hydrogen atom collided with its counterpart...total annihilation results.

Then there is the deja-vu theory. Universes on the same planes of existence, except for one variation...time. One universe is out of phase from the other by an infintesmally small amount of time, but it is enough to have an infinite numbr of universes right here, and none of us are aware of the others.

What about universes that only have two dimensions? What about one dimensional universes? What about five, six, 10 dimensional universes?

Each universe would hold absolute physical truthes, but not all laws of physics would apply in all universes, because not all physical laws would be neccessary in each version.

Why are most dreams we have disjointed, but every so often we have dreams so lucid, we swear it was real, only it isn't any reality we deal with during our waking moments? Why is it we remember these "lucid" dreams much easier, and much longer than we do the "goofy" dreams? And why do they linger, and bother us for awhile? To dream of children we never had, but swear they were real, with a past, and a future. Lost loves, are not lost in the dreams. I'm not talking wishful thinking, I mean they felt so real, that we are frustrated when we wake up, and fight to keep the memory of the dream from disapating.

Why do we know a place we've never been to, or recognize a face we've never seen?

Why do we even ponder these concepts, unless there is a possibility that they are more than concepts?

In scripture, man began to build a tower to heaven. The collective God pondered this, and decreed that man would succeed if left alone (this was 4000 years ago). God said man wasn't ready, and his thinking was wrong, so God threw a wrench in the works, not to stop us, but to slow us down.

I look forward to your response.


v/r

Q

 

[littlemissattitude]

Wow. I'm going to have to think about all of this, digest it a little, before I can make any kind of intelligent response. However, I can comment on one of your questions. You wrote:

Why do we even ponder these concepts, unless there is a possibility that they are more than concepts?

People sometimes tell me that the reason I think about things like this, and then talk about them or write about them, is just because I am a *^$& troublemaker. Isn't it funny how some people seem to feel so threatened by anyone who thinks or talks about anything out of the mainstream of orthodox thought (and by orthodox, I mean both in religion and in science)? Personally, I think stretching our "brain muscles" in this way is good for the soul.

I'll give the rest of what you said some thought. If it doesn't sprain my synapses, which is always possible, I'll comment later.

One further comment, as it occurs to me. You wrote:

In scripture, man began to build a tower to heaven. The collective God pondered this, and decreed that man would succeed if left alone (this was 4000 years ago). God said man wasn't ready, and his thinking was wrong, so God threw a wrench in the works, not to stop us, but to slow us down.

Are you really sure it was humankind that wasn't ready? Maybe it was God who wasn't ready. See? I can't help it. I'm just a troublemaker, although I assure you that I'm completely serious about my question and conclusion here.

I'll go for now, before I get myself in any more trouble.

 

[Quahom1]

...People sometimes tell me that the reason I think about things like this, and then talk about them or write about them, is just because I am a *^$& troublemaker. Isn't it funny how some people seem to feel so threatened by anyone who thinks or talks about anything out of the mainstream of orthodox thought (and by orthodox, I mean both in religion and in science)? Personally, I think stretching our "brain muscles" in this way is good for the soul...Are you really sure it was humankind that wasn't ready? Maybe it was God who wasn't ready. See? I can't help it. I'm just a troublemaker, although I assure you that I'm completely serious about my question and conclusion here...

Well the status quo gaurantees one thing, eventual complacency. Man does not appear to do well as a tree sloth. And as far as man being ready and God not...well when my ten year old told me he met the girl of his dreams and was ready to go out into the world, raise a family and make his mark...I would be remiss if I did not weigh his "absolute determination and will" against his experience and strength...would I not? Not that he would not be capable one day, he just wasn't ready at the moment of his declaration. So, I as a good parent provide distraction by bringing about the realities of living, and growing towards meeting the task he set before himself.

Just like math, life cannot work well by skipping steps, in solving the equation.

 

[littlemissattitude]

Well the status quo gaurantees one thing, eventual complacency. Man does not appear to do well as a tree sloth. And as far as man being ready and God not...well when my ten year old told me he met the girl of his dreams and was ready to go out into the world, raise a family and make his mark...I would be remiss if I did not weigh his "absolute determination and will" against his experience and strength...would I not? Not that he would not be capable one day, he just wasn't ready at the moment of his declaration. So, I as a good parent provide distraction by bringing about the realities of living, and growing towards meeting the task he set before himself.

Just like math, life cannot work well by skipping steps, in solving the equation.

Point taken.

On the other hand, there are all those fathers who don't want their daughters dating until they are thirty-five. Just something to think about.

Then there is the deja-vu theory. Universes on the same planes of existence, except for one variation...time. One universe is out of phase from the other by an infintesmally small amount of time, but it is enough to have an infinite numbr of universes right here, and none of us are aware of the others.

I'm good with that possible explanation for deja-vu. Makes as much sense as anything else. I never really understood the theory that deja-vu is a memory of a past life, considering that most of the deja-vu experiences I've ever had (and I tend to have them fairly frequently for some reason) have to do with thinking I remember doing specific things or having specific conversations based on very contemporary events - not something that could be a memory of a life lived before 1956 (when I was born). Although, I have to say that I find such experiences to be extremely unnerving, maybe because I've always had them so often.

Still thinking on the other topics - this cold weather must slow down my snapses or something.

 

[DrChaos]

Ah....this brings up another can of worms (to go along with your wormhole in the Mobius strip, Quahom1?). Is there a way of looking at the universe in which everything is true?

Now, of course, under the conditions which we were disucssing before, with many alternate universes or realities, this could easily be possible when you take into consideration all the universes together - different things would be true in each universe or reality, creating the possibility that within the conglomerate that everything (or all things) are true. But, can any of you see any way that all things could be true - brought about by the diverse beliefs of the sentient beings within that one universe or reality, referencing the quote Quahom1 left us, above?

Have fun kids. This is one of my favorite thought exercises. (There really should be an evil smilie here, you know, as this exercise might make you a little crazy if you think about it enough.)

This question will be my demise. If everything exists, then in essence nothing exists. I think that when God destroyed the Tower of Babylon, he destroyed the use of most of our brains, thus not allowing us to realize or contemplate things that God himself can. This being said, Quahom1 also stated, "God said man wasn't ready, and his thinking was wrong, so God threw a wrench in the works, not to stop us, but to slow us down. " Does that mean that we are slowly preparring ourselves? And if so, does that mean that we use more of our brrains with every generation, and what happens when we finally realize everything? Do we just become in a way "God" ourselves, or return to Him, and then do the process all over. And if so, does that mean that this all has happened before?

 

[JJM]

This question will be my demise. If everything exists, then in essence nothing exists. I think that when God destroyed the Tower of Babylon, he destroyed the use of most of our brains, thus not allowing us to realize or contemplate things that God himself can. This being said, Quahom1 also stated, "God said man wasn't ready, and his thinking was wrong, so God threw a wrench in the works, not to stop us, but to slow us down. " Does that mean that we are slowly preparring ourselves? And if so, does that mean that we use more of our brrains with every generation, and what happens when we finally realize everything? Do we just become in a way "God" ourselves, or return to Him, and then do the process all over. And if so, does that mean that this all has happened before?

Is it my imagination or does this sound slightly like the Hindu take on things? I know that they don't think we get generally smarter then make it to gods. but rather be born over and over again until we are perfect and thus join the gods. or am I wrong in thinking this?




Regardless of this It is possible that if your correct that we would never reach God’s intelligence. Our knowledge could go up by a certain percent ever generation. It would probably be something along the lines of .0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000001%
but for an example lets use 50%. if we are at 10%`of all intelligence then the next generation we would be around 55% and the year after that the next 77.5% then 88.25% and so on each generation getting half way to perfect but never quite getting there. So while I don't think that this theory is probable it is possible for it to take place without us ever reaching 100% of all intelligence.



____________________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

 

[Vajradhara]

Is it my imagination or does this sound slightly like the Hindu take on things? I know that they don't think we get generally smarter then make it to gods. but rather be born over and over again until we are perfect and thus join the gods. or am I wrong in thinking this?

Namaste JJM,

thank you for the post.

hmm... sort of according to the main Hindu understanding (it should be pointed out here that "Hinduism" is a term coined by the west to describe a large variety of religious and spiritual practices) we are born over and over, either in higher or lower states, depending on our karma. this will continue until Brahma wakes from His dream, which comprises the totality of everything. When He wakes, this universe will cease to be and thus no more rounds of rebirth. In the Hindu understanding, there is no escape from the wheel.

remember, in the Hindu understanding, it's not that God or Brahma is in everything, rather, God IS everything. you and i and everyone and everything are simply dreams of the Dreaming God.

 

[JJM]

Namaste JJM,

thank you for the post.

hmm... sort of according to the main Hindu understanding (it should be pointed out here that "Hinduism" is a term coined by the west to describe a large variety of religious and spiritual practices) we are born over and over, either in higher or lower states, depending on our karma. this will continue until Brahma wakes from His dream, which comprises the totality of everything. When He wakes, this universe will cease to be and thus no more rounds of rebirth. In the Hindu understanding, there is no escape from the wheel.

remember, in the Hindu understanding, it's not that God or Brahma is in everything, rather, God IS everything. you and i and everyone and everything are simply dreams of the Dreaming God.

Hmm. That is very interesting. I've never thought about it like that.

____________________________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Dreams and mathematics

About alternate universes, my own experiences and encounters with alternate universes are my dreams. I have had all kinds of dreams and all degrees of control save complete control -- usually very little control; but in some dreams where the going can be risky or too tough I have luckily always managed to force myself to wake up. Should I ever fail to force myself to wake up, then it's all over for me in my normal waking universe.

Words and words have been written about alternate universes. There is always the fallacy of dwelling in words, which is very common among religious writers or writers of mystical matters, among themselves.

I can tell you one day about the court's jester who was the ghost writer for the king on religious matters, so that the king would appear to be profoundly mystical like the monks in his realm claiming to know things profound and transcendental.

Beware then, alternate universe enthusiasts you don't have a jester in your midst who has mastered your language.

If you can consult a good mathematician, ask him to use the language of mathematics to put in a system your alternate universes, then you might discover something really mathematically objective, and practically relevant to human life at some time in the future.

In the meantime, if anyone can teach me to cultivate dreams and to dream at will, I am ready to pay good money for such a skill.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[JJM]

Example: I am a twin and am placed on a vessel headed for oh, say Alpha Centauri (about 28 light years from Earth), at birth, while my twin remains on the planet. All physical obstructions aside about matter obtaining light speed, let's say I do, and I arrive at Alpha Centauri 28 years later. I am a young man just getting into the prime of my life, and my twin? He's been dust for 1500 years.

Q

As I was reading this I realized that your example (above) was wrong. While I don't truly think that time would change if it did you would not be twenty eight. 28 light years is referring to how much time it seems to take for the light to travel from someone on earth traveling at earths speed. so in fact if this scenario to place and time would seem to change then your twin would be the one who was 28 and you’d still be in the first months of you infancy.

Further more if this theory is correct while time may change in comparison between to objects but to those object if they don't interact wouldn't notice a change in time. so if you did travel for 28 light years it would seem like 28 year to your twin but it would seem like roughly 181 days (that is assuming that you brother lived to be 80 and you didn't pull the 1500 number out of you butt. then every earth year you seem like .018401237 years to some one traveling at the speed of light.) so while in relation to each other the time may change but to the actual person they don't.

I'd also like to pose a question because all movement supposedly effects our rate of time then if I'm walking north on earth which is traveling around the sun and rotating in a circle then aren't I not moving in 3 directions at once. How would that affect time? Would they add together, cancel each other out, or would the faster on just take affect? Further more if that is true then because earth and mars are traveling at different speed then would the rate of time seem to change for the two in comparison to each other. Also if I'm driving at 60mph in my car and my grandmother is traveling the same direction. Then would what seems like 1 minutes to me, seem like 1.00000000000000000000000000001 minutes to her?(note: I just made that number up.)

Finally I’d like to say that if this is the case could it not be that heaven is in this universe but is moving so slow that in comparison to us time seems to stand still thus the thought that there is no time in heaven.

Just thought I'd share.
____________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive for I know one thing, that is I know nothing
Socrates

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Anthropomorphism

JJM writes:

Further more if this theory is correct while time may change in comparison between to objects but to those object if they don't interact wouldn't notice a change in time. so if you did travel for 28 light years it would seem like 28 year to your twin but it would seem like roughly 181 days (that is assuming that you brother lived to be 80 and you didn't pull the 1500 number out of you butt. then every earth year you seem like .018401237 years to some one traveling at the speed of light.) so while in relation to each other the time may change but to the actual person they don't.

. . . to those object if they don't interact wouldn't notice a change in time.

Can you please rephrase the statement above to remove its anthropomorphic construct, and still make sense?

Susma Rio Se[p

 

[littlemissattitude]

This question will be my demise. If everything exists, then in essence nothing exists. I think that when God destroyed the Tower of Babylon, he destroyed the use of most of our brains, thus not allowing us to realize or contemplate things that God himself can. This being said, Quahom1 also stated, "God said man wasn't ready, and his thinking was wrong, so God threw a wrench in the works, not to stop us, but to slow us down. " Does that mean that we are slowly preparring ourselves? And if so, does that mean that we use more of our brrains with every generation, and what happens when we finally realize everything? Do we just become in a way "God" ourselves, or return to Him, and then do the process all over. And if so, does that mean that this all has happened before?

I think it is really interesting that JJM commented that this sounds exceptionally Hindu. It struck me as sounding very Mormon. You see, in Mormon theology, it is assumed that human beings will get more and more truth as they perfect themselves and prove themselves worthy of it, at least as the Mormons see worthiness and perfection. That is one of the rationales Mormonism has for having what they consider to be present-day prophets and believing in modern-day revelation. And, in fact (although the hierarchy has begun to downplay the teaching, as I see it in an effort to look more like mainstream Christianity), the Mormon church teaches that those who attain what they see as perfection will actually become Gods in the afterlife, complete with planets that they will create, populate, and rule over. This is illustrated in a book of Mormon scripture called the Doctrine and Covenants, which mostly consists of a series of revelations Joseph Smith claimed he received. In section 132, verse 19 there is listed a series of things a man must to to be seen as righteous in the sight of God, followed in verse 20 by these words:

Then shall they be gods, because they have no end; therefore they be from everlasting to everlasting, because they continue; then shall they be above all, because all things are subject unto them. Then shall they be gods, because they have all power, and the angels are subject to them.

"They" in this verse refers to human males who follow all the teachings of the church. There is also a saying in Mormonism that "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." So, if the idea that humans can progress to become one with god or like god is Hindu, it is in a very real sense also Mormon. Then, again, I've heard more than one person (usually when trying to argue that Mormons aren't Christians - an open question, in my opinion) say that as far as they can see, Mormons are really Hindus. I know that Hindus would dispute that, but I'm only reporting what I've heard.

Oh, and DrChaos, you're very welcome. I'm always ready and willing to pose the kinds of questions that will drive a person insane. So, glad to be of service.

 

[JJM]

JJM writes:



. . . to those object if they don't interact wouldn't notice a change in time.

Can you please rephrase the statement above to remove its anthropomorphic construct, and still make sense?

Susma Rio Se[p

Sorry, I realize now how weird that sentence was. My computer began acting funny halfway through the post and I scrambled to post it without losing al I had written. I guess I forgot to read it over and make sure it all made sense. Alright let me use an example involving Quahom1 and his "twin" again. If Quahom1 was to wait until he was about 10 years old when he had a firm grasp on how time works. Then they tried the same experiment in which if his twin stays on earth and he leaves earth traveling at the speed of light. If they didn't ever interact again then neither would realize that there had been a change in the rate at which they where traveling through time. Obviously 28 years to the twin would feel like 28 years. But the twenty eight years to Quaham1 would feel like 181 days to Quahom1 (assuming that the 1500 years he used in his original quote was correct.) and as Quaham1 slowed down upon reaching his destination he would not realize that that his rate of time had changed at all. The only way the two of them would notice is if they interacted with each other. So what I’m saying is while the rate at which our time changes in relationship to others. It would not change the way we perceive time.





I hope that clears up what I meant.


_________________________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

 

[JJM]

I think it is really interesting that JJM commented that this sounds exceptionally Hindu. It struck me as sounding very Mormon. You see, in Mormon theology, it is assumed that human beings will get more and more truth as they perfect themselves and prove themselves worthy of it, at least as the Mormons see worthiness and perfection. That is one of the rationales Mormonism has for having what they consider to be present-day prophets and believing in modern-day revelation. And, in fact (although the hierarchy has begun to downplay the teaching, as I see it in an effort to look more like mainstream Christianity), the Mormon church teaches that those who attain what they see as perfection will actually become Gods in the afterlife, complete with planets that they will create, populate, and rule over. This is illustrated in a book of Mormon scripture called the Doctrine and Covenants, which mostly consists of a series of revelations Joseph Smith claimed he received. In section 132, verse 19 there is listed a series of things a man must to to be seen as righteous in the sight of God, followed in verse 20 by these words:



"They" in this verse refers to human males who follow all the teachings of the church. There is also a saying in Mormonism that "As man is, God once was; as God is, man may become." So, if the idea that humans can progress to become one with god or like god is Hindu, it is in a very real sense also Mormon. Then, again, I've heard more than one person (usually when trying to argue that Mormons aren't Christians - an open question, in my opinion) say that as far as they can see, Mormons are really Hindus. I know that Hindus would dispute that, but I'm only reporting what I've heard.

Oh, and DrChaos, you're very welcome. I'm always ready and willing to pose the kinds of questions that will drive a person insane. So, glad to be of service.

Thank you for this littlemissattitude I'm not to common with the Mormon religion. I've met a few, but I've never truly asked them about their religion. I did know they think God was once a man but I didn't understand why. However I think that there was something in Drchaos's statement that makes it slightly differ from both the Hindu Ideas and those of the Mormons. that is that it is not through human progression in their actions and spirituality that this new use of the brain would happen but rather the actual act of have another generation that turns that generations brains up a bit. however if he would be kind enough to help clarify that It would be appreciated



_______________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

More mundane details

Sorry, I realize now how weird that sentence was. My computer began acting funny halfway through the post and I scrambled to post it without losing al I had written. I guess I forgot to read it over and make sure it all made sense. Alright let me use an example involving Quahom1 and his "twin" again. If Quahom1 was to wait until he was about 10 years old when he had a firm grasp on how time works. Then they tried the same experiment in which if his twin stays on earth and he leaves earth traveling at the speed of light. If they didn't ever interact again then neither would realize that there had been a change in the rate at which they where traveling through time. Obviously 28 years to the twin would feel like 28 years. But the twenty eight years to Quaham1 would feel like 181 days to Quahom1 (assuming that the 1500 years he used in his original quote was correct.) and as Quaham1 slowed down upon reaching his destination he would not realize that that his rate of time had changed at all. The only way the two of them would notice is if they interacted with each other. So what I’m saying is while the rate at which our time changes in relationship to others. It would not change the way we perceive time.

I hope that clears up what I meant.

_________________________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

Thanks, and I must commend your equanimity and accommodating disposition.

I guess people who are very adept with your scenario should also work out the very mundane details of nutrition or food intake and digestion including the very vital phase of elimination, in the process of high speed and low speed life prosecution.

Best regards and keep on.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[DrChaos]

however if he would be kind enough to help clarify that It would be appreciated

I'm guessing you are referring to how the generation of people would "brain up". Well, think about it this way, we teach our kids everything the world already knows (or we try to). This means, that unless their generation learns nothing, then they learn something new, which is passed to their kids. So, eventually we know everything through the tedious accumulation of knowledge through the generations. Makes sense to me. The only problem is that it is human nature to try to learn more, so what happens when we know everything? I'm guessing Apocolypse in some form, maybe just the loss of our knowledge, maybe the destruction of Earth, who knows.

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

mental puzzles

I'm guessing you are referring to how the generation of people would "brain up". Well, think about it this way, we teach our kids everything the world already knows (or we try to). This means, that unless their generation learns nothing, then they learn something new, which is passed to their kids. So, eventually we know everything through the tedious accumulation of knowledge through the generations. Makes sense to me. The only problem is that it is human nature to try to learn more, so what happens when we know everything? I'm guessing Apocolypse in some form, maybe just the loss of our knowledge, maybe the destruction of Earth, who knows.

I can't see the point of your preoccupation when we know everything.

The only problem is that it is human nature to try to learn more, so what happens when we know everything? I'm guessing Apocolypse in some form, maybe just the loss of our knowledge, maybe the destruction of Earth, who knows.

Some modesty please, we can never know everything because our brain is not designed to know everything. And if we should know everything we can still work out a lot of mental puzzles of our own making which will keep our brain busy for long long millennia.

When we know everything, everything will be known to us and nothing will be anymore mysterious, that is the consequence. No Apocalypse here. I can't see any Apocalypse from knowing everything, maybe at most we will be very very careful in doing things. But we can still have a lot of pure fun with mental puzzles of our own making.

Try this mental puzzle: Which number is bigger, the infinite series of odd numbers, or the infinite series of consecutive numbers regardless of their being odd or even, just so that one comes after the other in both forward and backward directions without any interrupting intervals. And explain the why of your answer.

Susma Rio Sep

 

[DrChaos]

I can't see the point of your preoccupation when we know everything.

The only problem is that it is human nature to try to learn more, so what happens when we know everything? I'm guessing Apocolypse in some form, maybe just the loss of our knowledge, maybe the destruction of Earth, who knows.

Some modesty please, we can never know everything because our brain is not designed to know everything. And if we should know everything we can still work out a lot of mental puzzles of our own making which will keep our brain busy for long long millennia.

When we know everything, everything will be known to us and nothing will be anymore mysterious, that is the consequence. No Apocalypse here. I can't see any Apocalypse from knowing everything, maybe at most we will be very very careful in doing things. But we can still have a lot of pure fun with mental puzzles of our own making.

Try this mental puzzle: Which number is bigger, the infinite series of odd numbers, or the infinite series of consecutive numbers regardless of their being odd or even, just so that one comes after the other in both forward and backward directions without any interrupting intervals. And explain the why of your answer.

Susma Rio Sep

I think that we can't know if it's possible to know everything, because that's one of the things we have left to learn. And, there is a high probability that there is an end to everything, we just can't comprehend it yet. I miswrote what I meant, I meant that we know everything that our minds can handle, and if we reach that capacity, there cannot be anymore yearning to learn, because we know we have reached the limit of what we can know. And, if we know everything we can learn there is nothing more we can learn, with our minds. So people wouldn't be naive enough to try. I'm saying we know everything we can with any aid we can invent and anything any other race' (giving the benefit of the doubt aliens exist) stuff (as in anything that would enhance our minds)has an effect on our learning capacity. I'm using a hypothesis that there is actually a limit, which we don't know if it is true. So, now reconsider those question with the midset that there is a limit. I hope that clears it up a little.

P.S. they are the same if there is truly an infinity. It's a really hard concept to even begin to understand though, so I'm not going to strain my small mind.

 

[JJM]

I can't see the point of your preoccupation when we know everything.

The only problem is that it is human nature to try to learn more, so what happens when we know everything? I'm guessing Apocolypse in some form, maybe just the loss of our knowledge, maybe the destruction of Earth, who knows.

Some modesty please, we can never know everything because our brain is not designed to know everything. And if we should know everything we can still work out a lot of mental puzzles of our own making which will keep our brain busy for long long millennia.

When we know everything, everything will be known to us and nothing will be anymore mysterious, that is the consequence. No Apocalypse here. I can't see any Apocalypse from knowing everything, maybe at most we will be very very careful in doing things. But we can still have a lot of pure fun with mental puzzles of our own making.

Try this mental puzzle: Which number is bigger, the infinite series of odd numbers, or the infinite series of consecutive numbers regardless of their being odd or even, just so that one comes after the other in both forward and backward directions without any interrupting intervals. And explain the why of your answer.

Susma Rio Sep

As for your mind teaser they are both zero (assuming we are adding the numbers) because if you go in both directions for every positive number there is a negative of opposite value thus they cancel each out. The only exception to this rule would be zero but if you add zero to zero you get zero.


As for weather or not we can know all in my mind the answer is obviously no because I don't think we can truly know any thing. We can think things and believe things but not actually know them. The only person who knows anything is God. and even if God tells us something we can't even know if we really talked to him. or if it was a giant mutated bunny on cocaine. then again I don't know if we truly
can know something maybe we can.


Back to the relativity stuff. If the rate of time can be altered by speed then does that mean that speed is the source of time? and if I was able to stop moving would time cease to be for me? that is I would no longer perceive time thus stop thinking, breathing, aging, Ect...


Just another thought.

____________________________________________________
I am the wisest man alive, for I know one thing, and that is that I know nothing.
Socrates

 

[Susma Rio Sep]

Just for fun, OK?

Here is the mental puzzle again:

Try this mental puzzle: Which number is bigger, the infinite series of odd numbers, or the infinite series of consecutive numbers regardless of their being odd or even, just so that one comes after the other in both forward and backward directions without any interrupting intervals. And explain the why of your answer.

Honestly enough, I don't know the answer myself. When I am a bit restless in bed, I think about the problem and similar ones. Then I wouldn't even notice that I had already fallen asleep.

I was of the inclination to imagine that both series are equal for being equally infinite. But with your observations I am not so sure myself now.

Maybe a certified mathematician will tell us what's wrong with the formulation of the puzzle, if anything is wrong; or tell us how the puzzle is solved. Paging, mathematicians in this forum.

Just for more fun, try this other puzzle: Count the fingers of your hands, starting from one hand to the other: 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10. Now count backwards from 10: 10 9 8 7 6, stop there. How many fingers are left uncounted? Five (5), all right. What number did you stop with the previous hand, 6? Yes, 6. So 6 + 5 = 11. Give that demonsration to kids and have some fun.


Susma Rio Sep

PS More on the infinite series of numbers, I had a professor who I remember now told us that we must bear in mind the distinction between the dynamic order and the static order. Well, I still can't make any sense of what answer is the right one. Do you?