Baha'i Faith & Freemasonry...

Z

Ziriel

Guest
For my first post, I'd like to ask something that I've been wondering the answer to for some time now... :D

As far as I've read, the Baha'i Faith seems like the most "open" religion of all, in my opinion. On the other hand, I've also read that one of the prerequisites for joining the fraternal organization of the Masons is for the applicant to be a believer in "a Supreme Being."

As the Baha'i's believe in a Progressive Revelation, the Freemasons believe that all of man's deities is one and the same, despite the fact that they do not label their organization as a religion.

Christianity and Islam alike have scorned their followers over the years for joining the ranks of the Freemasons, with the Catholic Church once (or until now) banning Masons from receiving Communion.

My question is, what is the Baha'i viewpoint on this fraternal organization? Has anyone in the Baha'i Faith's leadership ever brushed on this topic? :)
 
But saying that, there was a religion before even the freemasons came around known as Manichaeism, for some reason I always keep referring back to this faith, but Manichaeism which is only 200 - 300 years younger then Christianity believed that all religions come from the same source and Mani there prophet was a Persian too.
 
The Free Masons are a 'secret society'. Baha`i's are not allowed to be members of secret societies.

"(2) The friends should not become members of secret societies.
"Your Assembly is advised to carefully inform the friends of these principles and to deepen them in their understanding and appreciation of them. Having made certain that all friends, especially those directly concerned, have been so deepened, your Assembly should then set a time limit by which the friends must obey your directive to withdraw their membership in the organizations. Each case will have to be considered on its own merits. Some of the friends may have to fulfill certain commitments as officers before they can withdraw with honor. The time limit should make allowance in such cases. "Whereas persistence in membership in these and in similar organization is ample ground for deprivation of voting rights, your Assembly is advised to give sufficient time for each of the friends to be throughout deepened, and to comply with the principles before any disciplinary action is taken."
(The Universal House of Justice From a letter to the National Spiritual Assembly of Colombia, December 26, 1963)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 54)

""Therefore, all the Bahá'ís everywhere have been urged to give up their old affiliations and withdraw from membership in the Masonic and other secret Societies in order to be entirely free to serve the Faith of Bahá'u'lláh as a united Body. Such groups as Masonry, however high the local standard may be, are in other countries gradually being influenced by the issues sundering the nations at present.
"The Guardian wants the Bahá'ís to disentangle themselves from anything that 422 may in any way now or in the future, compromise their independent status as Bahá'ís and the supra- national nature of their Faith."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, February 17, 1956)
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 421)

""The reasons why the Guardian feels that it is imperative for the Bahá'ís to be dissociated from masonry at this time, and I might add, other secret associations, is that we are the building blocks of Bahá'u'lláh's New World Order... the Bahá'ís should be absolutely independent, and stand identified only with their own teachings. That is why they are requested to withdraw from membership in the church, the synagogue, or whatever other previous religious organization they may have affiliated with, to have nothing whatsoever to do with secret societies, or with political movements etc. It protects the Cause; to reinforces the Cause, and it asserts before all the world its independent character."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance, p. 422)

"1390. Resignation from the Masonic Order
"As regards your question about the Masonic Order, he considers that the honest and courageous thing for you to do is to inform your lodge that you no longer consider yourself, purely personal reasons, a Mason; and would like to have your name taken off their list. If they should press you for an explanation, which he imagines is unlikely, everybody being free to do as they please in the world, you can explain to them that in the present chaotic period the world is passing through, with so many streams and counterstreams of political thoughts and prejudices of all kinds, racial, religious etc., storming the minds of men, that you wish to disentangle yourself from all association with the past and to stand alone, free in your own ideas.
"He does not think that such an explanation will prejudice the Masons or their 423 friends, or arouse in them a feeling of anger against the Faith, or indeed been involve the Faith at all."
(From a letter written on behalf of Shoghi Effendi to an individual believer, March 26, 1956)
1391. The Believers should Dissociate Themselves from Secret Organizations
"...Generally speaking the friends should not enter secret societies. It is certainly much better for the believers to dissociate themselves from such organizations..."
(Compilations, Lights of Guidance)

Regards,
Scott
 
I must admit I have looked into too and found some curious similarities, not only in the ideas of both freemasons and Baha'i. The freemasons were by FACT the fathers of the modern United States of America, they were an elite group of thinkers with ancient knowledge (something to do with king solomon). Some of the historical buildings in WashingtonDC have long been subject of conspiracy theories regarding the Freemasons because they were actually built by them. In the Baha'i world centre and even the house of the Bab look curiously similar to these buildings. The Freemasons society originally started in Europe within the builders of cathedrals and crafters.

Conspiracies of the Freemasons include Satan worship and world domination and power, the US dollars contains by fact many freemason symbols as it was designed by freemanons, even the US seal was created by them. Many people in England and Europe are not really aware of the freemasons, not sure if people in the US are well informed about them.
 
Ziriel said:
For my first post, I'd like to ask something that I've been wondering the answer to for some time now... :D

As far as I've read, the Baha'i Faith seems like the most "open" religion of all, in my opinion. On the other hand, I've also read that one of the prerequisites for joining the fraternal organization of the Masons is for the applicant to be a believer in "a Supreme Being."

As the Baha'i's believe in a Progressive Revelation, the Freemasons believe that all of man's deities is one and the same, despite the fact that they do not label their organization as a religion.

Christianity and Islam alike have scorned their followers over the years for joining the ranks of the Freemasons, with the Catholic Church once (or until now) banning Masons from receiving Communion.

My question is, what is the Baha'i viewpoint on this fraternal organization? Has anyone in the Baha'i Faith's leadership ever brushed on this topic? :)
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See Scott's answer above.

I will add that we do not scorn the Freemasons or their good works. It is a secret society, though, by their own definition and so we are told, as Baha'is, not to join it or any other "secret" society. The Baha'i Faith, through the teachings of Baha'u'llah, teaches Unity. A "secret" society simply is divisive by nature. When we are given guidelines as to how we should live, these are for the Baha'is and anyone else that can see the worth of following these guidelines. These are not similar to anything that has ever existed in the history of man. In the past, people and organizations took stands on issues and were willing to fight and die for their beliefs. Baha'is use "consultation" rather than adversarial negotiation to arrive at a conclusion and then, we recognize that we are responsible for our own life and how we live it and not for others. We truly believe that each of us have a journey we are on and we, each of us individually, must chose every minute of every day the direction this journey will take us. There is no safety net (confession) or vocal guides (ministry) or promises of reward vs punishment (heaven and hell), but simply the writings of The Bab and Baha'u'llah, the explanations of 'Abdu'l-Baha and the translations of Shoghi Effendi to guide us to live the life.

What does this have to do with Free Masonry? It is a secret society and the writings tell us to do nothing that will cause divisiveness so we, Baha'is, don't join it.

Mick
 
Hey, Mick!

Happy 12th Day of Ridvan.

Regards,
Scott
 
I think anyone that brings up Baha'i and freemasons together is trying to imply a conspiracy between the 2.... I guess it would be more appropriate for you guys to show there is no connection and I have tried to do this by showing the ideology of unity in religion which was considered truth by the freemasons before the Baha'is was also considered truth even before the freemason by Mani.
 
Postmaster said:
I think anyone that brings up Baha'i and freemasons together is trying to imply a conspiracy between the 2.... I guess it would be more appropriate for you guys to show there is no connection and I have tried to do this by showing the ideology of unity in religion which was considered truth by the freemasons before the Baha'is was also considered truth even before the freemason by Mani.
Click to expand...

Thank you for your concern, Postmaster. You, though, have answered it well. Freemasonry is an "ideology". The Baha'i Faith is the result of God's most recent message to mankind. Ideology vs God's will. Really there isn't anything else that needs to be said.

Mick
 
There's no connection between freemasonry and the Baha'i Faith.

As above Baha'is cannot be Masons primarily due to the secrecy involved.

There is also no historical connection between the Baha'i Faith and Manichaenism.

- Art
 
Baha'is can not be freemasons but it still doesn't mean the Baha'i faith is not the brainchild of the freemasons. And although there might not be any historical connection between the Baha'i faith and Manichaeism its a possibility that Baha'u'llah found inspiration from the religion as he was well aware of various philosophers and prophets of all backgrounds.
 
I think there is a big likelihood that Baha'u'llah new about Mani, yet he didn’t mention him in any of his writings. But other Baha'i authors after Baha'u'llah have mentioned Mani as being the first attempt of establishing a global religion. When I see an anomaly I can't let go of it. Also he claimed to be the seal of the prophets, does that sound familiar? Infact he was the origin of that phase. Mohammed ignored him in the Quran too. People try to view religion romantically instead of realistically, I can't see how it would effect the exsistence of God if people just keep it real. I think Mani was a threat because he wasnt a monotheist. Mani contributed alot to mankind in terms of his views yet was left ignored by the later prophets.
 
Postmaster said:
I think there is a big likelihood that Baha'u'llah new about Mani, yet he didn’t mention him in any of his writings. But other Baha'i authors after Baha'u'llah have mentioned Mani as being the first attempt of establishing a global religion. When I see an anomaly I can't let go of it. Also he claimed to be the seal of the prophets, does that sound familiar? Infact he was the origin of that phase. Mohammed ignored him in the Quran too. People try to view religion romantically instead of realistically, I can't see how it would effect the exsistence of God if people just keep it real. I think Mani was a threat because he wasnt a monotheist. Mani contributed alot to mankind in terms of his views yet was left ignored by the later prophets.
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I think Mani was the center of a man-made religious movement rather than a Manifestation of God. The best proof of this to me is that the religion of Mani did not survive the death of Mani. It is a good example of a failed religion.

Neither Muhammad nor the Bab and Baha`u'llah acknowledge it because according to their revelation Manichaenism is not part of the Abrahamic progression of revelation. Both Muhammad and Baha`u'llah acknowledge openly that there have been Manifestations of God whose revelations have faded away into history and that does not affect their validity. The religion of Mani did not fade into history, it simply failed and the reason for that failure is that the founder was not a Manifestation of God.

Regards,
Scott
 
Mani influenced Islam, possibly Christinity before and even the Baha'i faith but he isn't recognised the slightest by either Islam or Baha'i faith. Buddha doesn't follow the Abrahamic progression of revelation either yet is included as a prophet. Are you saying that history can forget an influencial figure if they die and there religion does not survive? His influence is still alive in the works of religion today of what are considered divine faiths, I think my problem is the failer to recognise this. I think if we view religious history more truthfully we can unlock more of it's secretes that are left for us to discover.
 
A reason why Manichaeism didn't remain mainstream for so long was not only because of dualism, probably because Mani rejected the Old Testament in a pretty anti-semitic way, people accept something more if it has antiquity, Christianity was quikly dominating Europe also with within politics. There was plans by the early Christians of Rome to completely do away with the old testament too but they New that couldn't so eventually they embraced it, it's possible that could have adversely effected Christianity.
 
Postmaster said:
A reason why Manichaeism didn't remain mainstream for so long was not only because of dualism, probably because Mani rejected the Old Testament in a pretty anti-semitic way, people accept something more if it has antiquity, Christianity was quikly dominating Europe also with within politics. There was plans by the early Christians of Rome to completely do away with the old testament too but they New that couldn't so eventually they embraced it, it's possible that could have adversely effected Christianity.
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It is not a sign of a Prophet in the line of Abraham to REJECT the Old Testament wchich honors Abraham as a Prophet. A true Prophet always honors those Who came before Him and praises He Who shall follow.

As to the Faith of Mani and it's nature as a Revelation of God:

"O My people! Be not perplexed should the 350 star of My presence disappear, and the ocean of My utterance be stilled. In My presence among you there was the wisdom of God, and in My absence from you there is yet another, inscrutable to all but the One, the All-Knowing. Verily, We behold you from Our realm of effulgent glory, and will graciously aid whosoever striveth for the triumph of Our Cause with the hosts of the celestial Concourse and a company of Our chosen angels."
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 349)
"Do Thou kindle in their hearts the flame of Thy divine attraction and grant that the bird of love and understanding may sing within their hearts. Grant that they may be even as potent signs, resplendent standards, and perfect as Thy Word. Exalt by them thy Cause, unfurl Thy banners and publish far and wide the wonders. Make by them Thy Word triumphant, and strengthen the loins of Thy loved ones. Unloose their tongues to laud Thy Name, and inspire them to do Thy holy will and pleasure. Illumine their faces in Thy Kingdom of holiness, and perfect their joy by aiding them to arise for the triumph of Thy Cause."
(Compilations, Baha'i Prayers, p. 201)
Part of the truth of a Prophet and His Cause is the fact that it does not die out when the presence of the Prophet in this world is ended. The cause of Abraham did not die, neither did the cause of Moses, Zoroaster, Krshna, Buddha, Christ, Muhammad, the Bab or Baha`u'llah. Their followers were empowered by the life of their belief and they triumphed over adversity and continue to triumph over adversity.
None of this is true of the cause of Mani. Mani's followers did not have the energy to perpetuate the faith in the absence of Mani. Neither were they motivated by the will of God and the 'Hosts of the Celestial Concourse and His chosen Angels'. The cause died. Therefore it was not of God. It may be and in actuality is fascinating as an ideology, a philosophy, an historic phenomenon, but as a Revelation of God. . . it failed, therefore it cannot have been a Revelation of God.
I have seen many reputable scholars trace the lineage of Krshna back to Abraham. I would submit that if the lineage of Abraham can be found in Krshna in India in ancient times, then in the even more recent times of Buddha (Who was also a nobleman from India), it is equally easy to trace that lineage to Buddha.
By this day and age I think it would be much harder to find an individual who CAN'T trace his lineage to Abraham in some fashion or other. I have hundreds of thousands or even millions of ancestors, surely somewhere in the multitude Abraham is amongst them.
Regards,
Scott
 
Well we have established that Mani was not a supreme prophet I'm not trying to elevate Mani in some kind of obsessional way, hope it doesn't seem like that. The Baha'i faith tells people to independently investigate truth, and by the reason blessed upon all of us by God, I try to see a much more historically accurate version of religion compared to that of Bahá'u'lláhs theological one. Bahá'u'lláh made some very important points, he unlocked religions in a unifying and positive way that can not be measured and authorised it. But Bahá'u'lláh never had the research resources available to us, the internet, liberys and history channels. Historical evidence and discoveries has also grown hugely since then. I'm in no way trying to add to the Baha'i theology or discredit it.

There seems to be an arena of error and trial in the world of theology and prophets, and quite cynically the religion that is marketed the best is the one that usually succeeded. It's like Mithraism compared to Christianity, that was a very scary comparison. All I'm saying is, Mani influenced LATE developing Christianity, early Islam and a fundamental principle of the Baha'i faith. Yet the man has no credit to his name, like I said before I've read an article from an offical Baha'i site which was quite sympathetic to Mani. But can't be sure if I read he ever influenced anyone.
 
I think Mani was influential as well, but I don't think he influenced the Revelations of Muhammad and Baha`u'llah. I see the great Prophets as saying what God wills Them to say--it's part of the contract.

Mani was not privy to that contract. He was however a large influence upon many things.

Regards,
Scott
 
Postmaster:

If there's no evidence presented that there was any connection between Freemasonry and the Baha'i Faith... How can you write:

"..it still doesn't mean the Baha'i faith is not the brainchild of the freemasons..." ?

Also you need to present evidence of how you think Manichaeism influenced Baha'i Faith.

Manichaeism was pretty much destroyed centuries ago during the Mongol invasions of central Asia and only has been available to scholars recently in translations of Sogdian and Old Uyghur and other obscure languages.

- Art
 
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