Baha'i Faith & Freemasonry...

The freemasons were renowned for there architectural buildings, the conspiracy theories surrounding the freemasons has to do with there buildings in WashingtonDC. One building in particular looks very similar to that in the Baha'i world centre and the Shire of the Bab looks like it got an inspiration from another. As for evidence, can't say I have any just a conspiracy that I can't say I believe.

I will see if I can establish a link between Manichaeism and the Baha'i faith. There was something like 500 - 800 years or so that separate Manis royal family to that of Bahá'u'lláhs. I wonder if Bahá'u'lláh had access to information and resource regarding Manichaeism that not many at the time would have had due to his heretiage gains. Also non of us are yet to prove its not the same blood line but I admitt thats unlikely.


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I did remember reading once on a Baha'i site that Bahá'u'lláh could trace his ancestry all the way back to Darius what do you make of that? I'm sure there was times when they lost the throne due to Mongol invasions and Islam conquests but usually to retake a throne you have to be of royal background, that is your claim and backing alone. Considering this it's possble Mani and Bahá'u'lláh could have a bloodline. Like you Arthra if you discovered you had Persian royal blood today, you would have a right to challenge the head of state of Persia so long as you have a big enough army to do it. If a royal family looses there throne they still have a lot of wealth and populairty to remain in incubation and a large enough family to wait for the raise to power again. This is why alot of royalty tend be related to each even after 100s of years of separation. Also with royalty there is an element of being divinly chosen for the role, of this they and the people used to believe.
 
Postmaster:

The freemasons were renowned for there architectural buildings, the conspiracy theories surrounding the freemasons has to do with there buildings in WashingtonDC. One building in particular looks very similar to that in the Baha'i world centre and the Shire of the Bab looks like it got an inspiration from another. As for evidence, can't say I have any just a conspiracy that I can't say I believe.

My reply:

Thanks for posting the photos... The reason the buildings look simialr is that they are all inspired by Classical design...this does not mean there is a connection between Freemasons and Baha'is. There are other buildings precious to Baha'is that are based on other traditions... For instance Bahji is more based on a Turkish Villa... The House of Worship in Panama has central American themes of the ancient Maya. The House of Worship in Samoa is influence by South Pacific culture and the House of Worship in Stutgart is thoroughly modern with no classical designs featured. Shoghi Effendi chose classical design for some of the buildings because they would be enduring and relfected the beauty and long lasting character...all of which has little to do with influence from freemasonry.

Postmaster:

I will see if I can establish a link between Manichaeism and the Baha'i faith. There was something like 500 - 800 years or so that separate Manis royal family to that of Bahá'u'lláhs. I wonder if Bahá'u'lláh had access to information and resource regarding Manichaeism that not many at the time would have had due to his heretiage gains. Also non of us are yet to prove its not the same blood line but I admitt thats unlikely.

My reply:

Mani was not actually related to the Sassanids...there was a Sassanid King who was interested in Manichaeism and some favor was shown to it but officially Zoroastrianism remained the state religion.

Postmaster:

I did remember reading once on a Baha'i site that Bahá'u'lláh could trace his ancestry all the way back to Darius what do you make of that?

My reply:

Instead of using your "memory"..why not post a link to it... I have never heard of this...

Baha'u'llah traced His ancestory to Yazdigird III the last reigning monarch of the Sassanid dynasty and the Sassanids claimed descent from Zoroaster. I have not heard of any claims about Darius but this king was centuries before Mani and so has not much relevance. Baha'u'llah's family traced itself to the Province of Nur (which means Light) in Mazindaran along the southern shores of the Caspian Sea and this was also an area that was a stronghold of Zoroastrians for some time.

- Art
 
There were no Freemason lodges in Persia until after 1910. The closest (geographic) lodges were in Calcutta. The term for Freemasonry in India was a word that meant "Forgetfulness".

The best known title for the Bab was "Dikhr'u'llah" which means "Remembrance of God." This suggests to me that if the Bab had any familiarity with Freemasonry it was rejected by Him.

The Masons have many admirable qualities to their philosophy. But it's a philosophy, not a religion.

The fact is that the roots of the Baha`i Faith are clearly Islamic and within Islam it is the Shaykhi School created by Shaykh Ahmad around 1760.

Manichaeanism is dualist. The Bab and Baha`u'llah reject dualism. Mani believed Revelation ended with himself. The Bab and Baha`u'llah reject the notion that Revelation will ever end.

Academically you're barking up the petrified stump of the wrong tree.

Regards,
Scott
 
The freemason theory I don't buy, I gathered myself that choosing an architectural style might very well have nothing to do with it or maybe some Baha'i thought freemasons have good ideas and thought wouldn't it be nice if we went classical.

Do you think that there’s no chance that Baha'u'llah had the slightest clue about Manichaeism? I know the religion is somewhat different in many aspects but is there no chance that he drawn inspiration from the religion? Maybe he stumbled across it at some point in his life, maybe in a royal libery? The odds can't be that far apart for that happening. Or shall we put it down to a natural mirroring phenomenon that a Persian royal said all religions are the same just 1500 years apart.

 
Postmaster said:
The freemason theory I don't buy, I gathered myself that choosing an architectural style might very well have nothing to do with it or maybe some Baha'i thought freemasons have good ideas and thought wouldn't it be nice if we went classical.

Do you think that there’s no chance that Baha'u'llah had the slightest clue about Manichaeism? I know the religion is somewhat different in many aspects but is there no chance that he drawn inspiration from the religion? Maybe he stumbled across it at some point in his life, maybe in a royal libery? The odds can't be that far apart for that happening. Or shall we put it down to a natural mirroring phenomenon that a Persian royal said all religions are the same just 1500 years apart.
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Postmaster,

Manichaeism is far from a secret. I'm sure it's likely that Baha'u'llah was knowledgable about it, even without access to royal libraries or special spiritual or inherited insight, even without special theological education. He came from a noble, literate household. For that matter, Islam also shares in common with the Baha'i Faith the idea that all religions came from one source, although the Baha'i Faith takes it further in include the Eastern religions that have very different concepts from the Abrahamic God.

2 c
 
Quite true.. And I just want to point out im not attacking the Baha'i faith, to me it is a legitamate religion.
 
Postmaster said:
The freemason theory I don't buy, I gathered myself that choosing an architectural style might very well have nothing to do with it or maybe some Baha'i thought freemasons have good ideas and thought wouldn't it be nice if we went classical.

Do you think that there’s no chance that Baha'u'llah had the slightest clue about Manichaeism? I know the religion is somewhat different in many aspects but is there no chance that he drawn inspiration from the religion? Maybe he stumbled across it at some point in his life, maybe in a royal libery? The odds can't be that far apart for that happening. Or shall we put it down to a natural mirroring phenomenon that a Persian royal said all religions are the same just 1500 years apart.
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Baha`u'llah was born of the Persian nobility. They were not trained academics by any stretch of the imagination. His education in Arabic was just enough to read the Qur'an, but he was never taught to compose and write more than sign His name.

Instead He was taught how to administer His possessions, ride a horse, use a sword and function within the court of the Shah. His father was the foreign minister of Muhammad Shah, and when He passed away the Foreign Minister post was offered to Baha`u'llah. He declined and it caused some furor within the court that He should do such a thing.

""O King! I was but a man like others, asleep upon My couch, when lo, the breezes of the All-Glorious were wafted over Me, and taught Me the knowledge of all that hath been. This thing is not from Me, but from One Who is Almighty and All-Knowing. And He bade Me lift up My voice between earth and heaven, and for this there befell Me what hath caused the tears of every man of understanding to flow. The learning current amongst men I studied not; their schools I entered not. Ask of the city wherein I dwelt, that thou mayest be well assured that I am not of them who speak falsely. This is but a leaf which the winds of the will of thy Lord, the Almighty, the All-Praised, have stirred. Can it be still when the tempestuous winds are blowing? Nay, by Him Who is the Lord of all Names and Attributes! They move it as they list. The evanescent is as nothing before Him Who is the Ever-Abiding. His all-compelling summons hath reached Me, and caused Me to speak His praise amidst all people. I was indeed as one dead when His behest was uttered. The hand of the will of thy Lord, the Compassionate, the Merciful, transformed Me."
(Baha'u'llah, Epistle to the Son of the Wolf, p. 11)

Baha`u'llah did not study and create a religion from His studies. It was revelation, not education. The idea of Baha`u'llah frequenting musty libraries to read nearly lost history is not reasonable. It wasn't what He did.

Regards,
Scott
 
Popeyesays with your last post I run the risk of calling Baha`u'llah a lier, now I can see why you and arthra are on the defence with the mani influence. I'm going to leave it as open verdict, simply because I will never know what went on. Maybe I should just give up totally and become an athiest.

For that matter, Islam also shares in common with the Baha'i Faith the idea that all religions came from one source, although the Baha'i Faith takes it further in include the Eastern religions that have very different concepts from the Abrahamic God.
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I must admit at first I did have a concern about the Baha'i faith and how contrary it is to eastern theology for there sake and Baha'i sake, but I'm fully fine about it now. Christianity has been trying to dominate over eastern religions for years, at least the Baha'i faith would do it with more sympathy, not only theologically but also to the extent of missionary pushed. It is after all God's aim of us to all return to him after death and maybe God is trying to overwrite the reincarnation theology eventually, not to say it doesn't happen.
 
PM.

I never thought you were calling Baha`u'llah a liar. I just wanted to correct a misunderstanding of the nature of the Faith. It's an easy misunderstanding to suffer.

As to remaining an atheist, well, I figure you have to be true to yourself, and I believe you have long since lost the opportunity to be an atheistt. You've answered too many questions for yourself. I have nothing but praise for your dedication to "independent investigation of the truth."

Regards,
Scott
 
Postmaster said:
The freemasons were renowned for there architectural buildings, the conspiracy theories surrounding the freemasons has to do with there buildings in WashingtonDC. One building in particular looks very similar to that in the Baha'i world centre and the Shire of the Bab looks like it got an inspiration from another. As for evidence, can't say I have any just a conspiracy that I can't say I believe.

I will see if I can establish a link between Manichaeism and the Baha'i faith. There was something like 500 - 800 years or so that separate Manis royal family to that of Bahá'u'lláhs. I wonder if Bahá'u'lláh had access to information and resource regarding Manichaeism that not many at the time would have had due to his heretiage gains. Also non of us are yet to prove its not the same blood line but I admitt thats unlikely.


Washington,DC%20Cherry%20Blossoms%202.jpg


CarmelArc.jpg


Sep2003bg526capital440.jpg



shrine.gif
Click to expand...

Even if Baha'u'llah had ever heard about Mani he didn't directly influence how the architecture would be like, he didn't lay down blueprints of how buildings should be built, he layed down blueprints for the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.

 
Seeker_of_truth said:
But Christ and Mohammad don't mention either Zoroaster, Krishna, or Buddha.
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Buddha and Krshna, no. Zoroaster, however is mentined in the Qur'an--or rather His followers are acknowledged as "People of the Book".

Regards,
Scott
 
Seeker_of_truth said:
Even if Baha'u'llah had ever heard about Mani he didn't directly influence how the architecture would be like, he didn't lay down blueprints of how buildings should be built, he layed down blueprints for the Kingdom of Heaven on earth.
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You have me mistaken I was showing that some buildings in the Baha'i world centre are similar to some in Washington DC that were built by the freemasons. I make no accusation with that.
 
This might be of help

The primary Bahá'í writings make no mention of Manichaeism. However, two articles have considered the role and person of its founder, Mání, and the relation of the religion to the Bahá'í Faith. The most complete Bahá'í analysis of Manichaeism is Daniel Keith Conner's "Mani and Manichaeism: A Study in Religious Failure," in World Order, 11.2 (Winter 1976-77). Christopher Buck has also briefly discussed Mání, whom he considers the first figure in history to have consciously pursued the role of world-prophet, in "A Unique Eschatological Interface: Bahá'u'lláh and Cross-Cultural Messianism," in Peter Smith, ed., Studies in Bábí and Bahá'í History, volume 3.
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Mani had extraordinary foresight, originality and laid some foundations for later prophets. His reason for failer can only be he was too ahead of his time.
 
Postmaster said:
You have me mistaken I was showing that some buildings in the Baha'i world centre are similar to some in Washington DC that were built by the freemasons. I make no accusation with that.
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If you would like me to find buildings that look like they could be inspired or ripped off from other buildings I would be more than happy to.
Also, so what if they the architects of the buildings got the idea from the DC buildings? many of the architects that weren't even Baha'i.
 
I thought I'd explore and share a possible connection between Baha'is and freemasons because of the subject of this thread thats all.
 
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