Freemasons and Manichaeism

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Postmaster

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I'm going to be quite bold on this one, as I usually am. I've been thinking of the posibility that Manichaeism influenced freemanson principles.

This is how I come to the conclusion, the original freemasons were an organisation or society of people who originally built religious buildings, this came with benifits in Europe as these kind of people were in demand, so they developed some kind of advanced fellowship society.

The faith maintained a sporadic and intermittent existence in the west (Mesopotamia, Africa, Spain, France, North Italy, the Balkans) for a thousand years, and flourished for a time in the land of its birth (Persia) and even further east in Northern India, Western China, and Tibet.
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My question is, who built the Manichaeism temples in Europe up to AD1000?

Could it only have been the masons? Of course, who else?

side note. Wikipedia claims the heretical Cathars (mentioned in Dan Browns Di vinci codes) had Manichaeism traditions and ideology.
 
I'm under the impression that the Freemasons are effectively a modern organisation - certainly post-Enlightenment. So I would therefore not associate them with such ancient projects. I mean, remember what sort of state Britain was in around the 11th century. :)

As for the influence of Manichaeism - what's interesting is that Wikipedia suggests a focus on duality, which seems at least superifically related to concepts within Zoroastrianism.

As to whether Manichaeism influenced the Freemasons - I'm honestly not certain what Freemason beliefs actually are, though I've heard suggestions of it being lead by a notion of God and Godliness outside of religious boundaries. Probably have some Greek philosophical influences as well, at a guess, considering the apparent focus on geometry.

2c.
 
I should have said the main part I’m trying to investigate is the theological idea of all religions being of the same source. This is part of the freemasons principles, Manichaeism and Baha'i faith all share in common and I'm trying to establish connections historically. I find it hard to say these people drawn this conclusion independently from each other and what's more 2 of founders of these religions claimed prophethood in a curiously mirroring fashion. Culture and ideas are usually passed on in human history, it's part of being human. The dominating force of Christinity may have shadowed this part of human history.
 
While the Masons trace their roots back to to Solomon's Temple, there is no historically sound support for the claim. The erliest we can actually tace them is to the destruction of the Cathars and the Knights Templar. The last of the Templar strongholds are in Scotland. The first of the Free Mason associations are in Scotland amd date back to about the same time. This is 10,000 years+ later than Mani.

The Spiritual Revelation of God is a crystal clear, ever-flowing fountain. Everyone comes to get their bucket of water, but not everyone understands, knows or cares a fig for the source of the water.

Regards,
Scott
 
I'm finding this all too fasinating.. Dan Brown is working on a book about the freemasons and ties in the knights templars again.

Thanks for the links.
 
Thanks, any chance for a live page? :D

There is deffo connections... I thought I was being paranoid............... am I?
 
Freemasonry is tied to a lot of Christian orders. Sometimes they're said to have been tied to the Knights Templar, but this is probably not true. They have, however, been tied to the Knights Hospitaller.

These orders practiced a variety of forms of esoteric Christianity. Some Gnostic, Hermetic, and Cabalistic ideas definitely made it in. Freemasonry, at its heart, was essentially an initiatory secret society based on teaching Christian Cabala through the metaphor of Solomon's Temple. They themselves viewed the Masonic Lodge as a prototype of the Third Temple, awaiting the Second Coming where the lodges would be handed over to Christ who would take over Christendom.

This is still the core teaching of the Scottish Rite, who my father and my grandfather were initiated into. This is also where we see the 33 degrees, although the 33rd degree was always left empty, awaiting Jesus Christ himself to fill it. So anyone claiming to be a 33rd degree Mason is lying, although you probably already knew that.

The lodge is a mystery tradition, though, and so it only reveals its full corpus to those who are initiated into high enough degrees. A lot of modern Masonic lodges only go up to the 3rd degree, and most of these have very little to do with the original doctrine of the Freemasons. However, you can still go into the Scottish Rite after you reach the 3rd degree in these lodges, as long as they are recognized by an associated Grand Lodge, and so these smaller lodges basically act as a way of expanding Freemasonry.

This will sound completely insane to many people in lower degrees, sort of how many Scientologists deny that the Xenu story is actually a part of Scientology, because both organizations share the same "mystery school" structure. My grandfather was at least a 30th degree in the Scottish Rite, though, and so he knew quite a bit. He never told me anything, but I did dig through his stuff after he died. That's how I know so much about this.
 
Postmaster said:
I should have said the main part I’m trying to investigate is the theological idea of all religions being of the same source. This is part of the freemasons principles, Manichaeism and Baha'i faith all share in common and I'm trying to establish connections historically. I find it hard to say these people drawn this conclusion independently from each other and what's more 2 of founders of these religions claimed prophethood in a curiously mirroring fashion. Culture and ideas are usually passed on in human history, it's part of being human. The dominating force of Christinity may have shadowed this part of human history.
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Years later I know, but the idea that all religions are of the same source makes me think of Perennialism.

A Definition of the Perennial Philosophy - Introduction

www.worldwisdom.com www.worldwisdom.com
 
Ella S. said:
Freemasonry is tied to a lot of Christian orders. Sometimes they're said to have been tied to the Knights Templar, but this is probably not true. They have, however, been tied to the Knights Hospitaller.

These orders practiced a variety of forms of esoteric Christianity. Some Gnostic, Hermetic, and Cabalistic ideas definitely made it in. Freemasonry, at its heart, was essentially an initiatory secret society based on teaching Christian Cabala through the metaphor of Solomon's Temple. They themselves viewed the Masonic Lodge as a prototype of the Third Temple, awaiting the Second Coming where the lodges would be handed over to Christ who would take over Christendom.

This is still the core teaching of the Scottish Rite, who my father and my grandfather were initiated into. This is also where we see the 33 degrees, although the 33rd degree was always left empty, awaiting Jesus Christ himself to fill it. So anyone claiming to be a 33rd degree Mason is lying, although you probably already knew that.

The lodge is a mystery tradition, though, and so it only reveals its full corpus to those who are initiated into high enough degrees. A lot of modern Masonic lodges only go up to the 3rd degree, and most of these have very little to do with the original doctrine of the Freemasons. However, you can still go into the Scottish Rite after you reach the 3rd degree in these lodges, as long as they are recognized by an associated Grand Lodge, and so these smaller lodges basically act as a way of expanding Freemasonry.

This will sound completely insane to many people in lower degrees, sort of how many Scientologists deny that the Xenu story is actually a part of Scientology, because both organizations share the same "mystery school" structure. My grandfather was at least a 30th degree in the Scottish Rite, though, and so he knew quite a bit. He never told me anything, but I did dig through his stuff after he died. That's how I know so much about this.
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I don't know much about this but if one looks into it properly you have the misraim rite that is based on both the blue lodge and the 33 scottish degrees, and if I am not mistaken there are a lot of esoteric organisations that grew out of this rite, both the theosophic and the antroposophic and the ordo templis orientis, A.A. Aleister Crowley had ties to this particular masonic lodge. So it's not suprising that they did practice esoteric christianity, hermetics and kabalistic ideas. The antroposophic movement even have their take on freemasonry today called the misraim service. We have it in Sweden, was about to join, but changed my mind since I live so far away from everything. Don't think the freemasons practice that much esoterics still though.. sad.. I would love to be part of the misraim rite if it was possible online..

en.wikipedia.org

Rite of Memphis-Misraim - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org en.wikipedia.org

 
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Thomas said:
The Catholic curia in Rome have periodic bouts of paranoia about Freemasonry, I think ... I caught odd whispers when I was studying ...
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I had heard that Freemasons were thought to be anti-Catholic
 
@Thomas, I've been handed sharply-worded anti-mason pamphlets by representatives of the Catholic church... and I'm not even a mason. At least some of your church siblings harbor mistrust themselves, so to see it reflected back is no big surprise to me.
 
Cino said:
@Thomas, I've been handed sharply-worded anti-mason pamphlets ...
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Oh, I didn't mean to play that down.

When we had visiting lecturers from Rome on my course, there was one occasion of dour muttering and head-shakings with regard to Freemasonry – 'the enemy within'.

(The Catholic Church v Freemasons is a bit like McCarthy America v Communism.)

I'm not saying there's nothing going on, there probably is, my rather flip comment was that the RC Church is the big boogieman for a lot of people in esoteric circles, from the 'esoteric schools' of old until today Dan Brown made quite a lot out of it ...
 
Thomas said:
(The Catholic Church v Freemasons is a bit like McCarthy America v Communism.)
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Heh, nice one.

Thomas said:
I'm not saying there's nothing going on, there probably is, my rather flip comment was that the RC Church is the big boogieman for a lot of people in esoteric circles, from the 'esoteric schools' of old until today Dan Brown made quite a lot out of it
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It is a long history after all.

Speaking from my little corner of the esoteric spectrum, I have to say, the RC church is really good at ritual (along with the Eastern Orthodox) Some of the "boogieman" attitude may be due to envy or you know, admiration hurt by rejection.
 
Cino said:
I have to say, the RC church is really good at ritual (along with the Eastern Orthodox) Some of the "boogieman" attitude may be due to envy or you know, admiration hurt by rejection.
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I think there's a lot in that.
 
The boogeyman is raising its ugly head again this side of the pond. Us lay folk cannot grok the protection afforded to clergy. We have investigators finding mass graves at schools and now in Baltimore yet another scathing investigation.
 
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