David & Jonathan, manly men?

[JosephM]

(snip)

Do you see the difference in men like Isaiah and David, to maybe me and you and most of the world?


(snip)

Paul, I am not Leo but I do not see the difference in men like Isaiah and David to maybe me and you. I do not see God as being a respecter of persons.
James 5:17
Elias was a man subject to like passions as we are, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain: and it rained not on the earth by the space of three years and six months.

Yes but your attbributing a continunous state of sin to a Holy person.
Like being a drunk, drug addict or homosexual.
You put them down in the mire, not up in the heavens.

I think you read too much into what Leo has said. He said David was "human just like the rest of us". I find no evidence to support otherwise. That David was guilty of premeditated murder and stealing another man's wife is a matter of biblical record. He repented and was forgiven same as anyone else who committs such acts and repents. Nobody said anything about David being in a continuous state of sin.

If these men in scripture were drunks, drug addicts, criminals, and whatever else, they would not be witnesses of God.
They were great witnesses of God, His love shone through them.
Most of us are at a lower stage in our spiritual growth and we are not the witnesses they were can you agree?

On the contrary, God sometimes chooses the worst of sinners to be the best of his witnesses. Take Saul/Paul for example who admittedly had many Christians killed in the name of God but was later one of his greatest witnesses.

Or do you say you have reached the height David did.
That any homosexual has?
Drug addict, drunk?

Why get personal? God knows the hearts of men. In Leo's defense, he said no such thing.

Your not questioning the fact that David and Johnathan kissed each other, for there is no question they did.

But you are insulting the innocence and purity of their love.

What if someone was questioning your sexuality, or one of your loved ones who had died, or even accusing them of other sins they didn't have.
What if the accusation was of peodophilier.
We know Davids sin and his greatness, you are questioning him to add sin to his name which there are no grounds whatsover


That it undoubtedly is.
But it doesn't stop you insulting his greatest witnesses, those closest to him as having reached Him with such a mind of impiurity.
You insult His name, it doesn't change His name, but it's still an insult.

Perhaps a moment of prayer and chilling out would be in order.

Love and Peace.
JM

 

[paul]

I see a difference in men like Isaiah and David to myself.
They were much greater witnesses of their faith than me.
.
Act 10:34 And Peter opening his mouth, said: in very deed I perceive that God is not a respecter of persons.
Act 10:35 But in every nation, he that feareth him and worketh righteousness is acceptable to him.

Paul didn't remain the man he was, but as you say later became one of the greatest witnesses.

I see a very great difference in Paul in his faith to myself in mine.

Thank you Joseph.
And sorry Leo if i've insulted your faith or offended you personally.

Pray for me.
Paul

 

[paul]

I admit i don't really like the question of this subject, but because of the accusations today, i would like to try to show the love between David and Johnathan, and the great injury in these accusations.

David and Johnathan had a pure love.
If only we could see and learn from it, and see what it was that abode within them.

We fail to see it, in how we supress this love, if we were as full in this love as them we would not fail to see it and would see how injurous such accusations are.

Look at the love between David and Johnathan.
The love between Paul and those that fell on his neck weeping at his departure.

Do we have such brotherly love today, for that's what they had, they had the love of God, greater than most of us.
That is what is shown in this writings.
And that is what we need to submit to more.

In our socieites, in our world, we've sometimes lost these pure emotions, this pure love, we surpress it, are afraid to even express it and live it.

They are an example to us, in them lived, is shown to us the love of God.

I beleive we have to submit to such love in our lives.
That we would weep on each others necks in our love for each other.

I see such love, but i fail in it.
But that is a love i need more, want more in my life and in others.
I don't think i could want anything greater for myself or others

 

[bob x]

To me it is entirely self-evident that the love between David and Jonathan was physical. There is not a single passage where their feelings are not described in physical terms.