citizenzen
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A quote from their website. I like your description better.
A quote from their website. I like your description better.
nativeastral
fluffy future
got an email from greenpeace asking to sign a petition against obama's bill which greenpeace says does not go far enough.
''President Obama vowed to “restore science to its rightful place” in his inaugural address, yet ACES all but ignores the science. Take action now and urge Obama to be a leader on global warming.
Here’s what’s WRONG with the legislation:
Urge your member of Congress to vote against this bill, and tell the President he MUST deliver on his campaign pledge to set climate policy based on science, not politics. Take action now!''
''President Obama vowed to “restore science to its rightful place” in his inaugural address, yet ACES all but ignores the science. Take action now and urge Obama to be a leader on global warming.
Here’s what’s WRONG with the legislation:
- The Nobel-prize winning Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change says that to avoid the worst climate impacts such as intense droughts, super charged hurricanes and increased heat waves, the U.S. and other industrialized countries must cut their emissions by 25-40% below 1990 levels by 2020. This bill, as it’s currently written, only calls for a 4% reduction by 2020. And there’s very little chance those targets will be improved.
- These weak targets are made even worse by 2 billion tons per year of allowable offsets. Offsets allow polluters to put off for more than a decade real cuts in their emissions The offsets are so high that they will exceed the actual pollution reductions required until at least 2026 — that’s time we don’t have!
- Coal-fired power plants are the single largest source of global warming pollution in the U.S. In order to tackle climate change, we need to begin phasing out coal immediately. But instead of phasing-out coal plants, ACES will actually encourage the growth of a new generation of coal-fired plants! To add insult to injury, tens of billions of taxpayer dollars would be spent on the myth of carbon capture and sequestration — an untested and unproven technology that is decades away from full-scale deployment even by the most optimistic estimates.
Urge your member of Congress to vote against this bill, and tell the President he MUST deliver on his campaign pledge to set climate policy based on science, not politics. Take action now!''
nativeastral
fluffy future
America honours leaders
new vid from greenpeace USA [the polar bear one is good too]
America Honors Leaders | Greenpeace USA
new vid from greenpeace USA [the polar bear one is good too]
America Honors Leaders | Greenpeace USA
T
Tao_Equus
Guest
Ok...you guys tell me...EU complains about US emissions and us being the problem...well how come you guys can buy the cars that don't meet our emission standards???
35 MPG can be an immediate reality, with one domestic manufacturer, if the United States government would only allow it to happen. Our elected representatives need to be aware of the facts and make the appropriate decisions.
Chrysler is uniquely positioned among the Big Three US automakers. Unlike Ford and General Motors, Chrysler is already building a slew of high-MPG diesel-powered vehicles right here in the United States.
Amazing as it may seem in these difficult times, Chrysler is not allowed to sell those cars domestically, due to recently tightened emissions regulations. With the exception of the domestically-available Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel, all of Chrysler’s North American manufactured high-MPG diesel-equipped vehicles are being shipped abroad.
Each and every one of Chrysler’s European models is available with a diesel engine, with the exception of the Dodge Viper. In fact, a diesel engine can be found under the hood of more than 50% of the vehicles that Chrysler sells in Europe.
All-in-all, a dozen Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep diesel-engined models are currently available outside of the United States, but are not sold domestically.
Here’s the eye-opener … half of those models currently achieve 35 miles per gallon combined.
That’s 35 MPG … right now.
And what’s even more crazy? All of these 35 MPG cars and SUVs are built in North American plants by North American workers … American citizens cannot buy and drive the fuel-efficient cars they build.
The thriftiest of the bunch delivers nearly 50 MPG on the highway … and it’s no dog off the line, turning in 0-62 mile per hour (MPH) times under nine seconds. The fastest in the pack delivers 7.6 second 0-62 times and 35.6 MPG on the highway.
Needless to say, these are wonderful world-class cars, a world apart from your Uncle’s noisy, slow, smelly 80’s-era diesel.
The Mercedes-Benz V6 diesel-equipped Jeep Grand Cherokee is the first US-built passenger vehicle to meet the tougher Federal emissions requirements. With the emissions work done on the Mercedes’ 3.0 liter engine, we expect the Chrysler 300 to be the next diesel-powered domestic, as it shares the same powerplant. (At present, diesel 300s are being built in Graz, Austria.)
Chrysler is using four different diesel engines, in all:
Crazier schemes have been implemented to stimulate the economy, no doubt about that. But this one just might work … by spurring investment and putting people back to work.
As you ponder that thought, take a gander at a group of specifications that compare the European diesels with the most fuel-efficient engines in each of the US domestics …
Jeep Patriot Diesel
Plant: Belvedere, IL
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel inline four cylinder engine, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/5-speed/2WD - more: Jeep Patriot Gas Mileage Ratings)
Jeep Compass Diesel
Plant: Belvedere, IL
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel inline four cylinder engine, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/5-speed/2WD - more: Jeep Compass Gas Mileage Ratings)
Jeep Wrangler Diesel
Plant: Toledo, Ohio
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 174 HP and 302 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11.2 seconds (two door), 11.7 seconds (four door) when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 3.8 liter V6/6-speed/2WD)
Jeep Cherokee (aka: Liberty) Diesel
Plant: Toledo, Ohio
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 161 HP and 295 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11.2 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 3.7 liter V6/6-speed/2WD)
(The 2.8 liter diesel engine was available in the domestic Jeep Liberty in the 2005 and 2006 model years.)
Jeep Commander Diesel
Plant: Jefferson North, MI
Engine: Mercedes-Benz 3.0 liter common rail diesel, producing 215 HP and 376 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 9.0 seconds when equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 3.7 liter/V6/5-speed Auto/2WD or 4.7 liter/V8/5-speed Auto/2WD)
Chrysler 300 Diesel
Plant: Brampton, Ontario & Graz, Austria (diesels)
Engine: Mercedes-Benz 3.0 liter common rail diesel, producing 215 HP and 376 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 7.6 seconds - Sedan (Saloon), 8.6 seconds - Wagon (Touring), when equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 2.7 liter V6/5-speed Auto)
Chrysler Grand Voyager (aka: Town & Country) Diesel
Plant: St. Louis (diesels)
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 174 161 HP and 339 265 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 12 seconds when equipped with a four-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 3.3 liter V6/4-speed auto - more: Chrysler Town and Country Gas Mileage Ratings)
Chrysler PT Cruiser Diesel
Plant: Toluca, Mexico
Engine: Mercedes-Benz 2.2 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 148 HP and 221 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 10.8 second, when equipped with a five-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/5-speed Manual - more: Chrysler PT Cruiser Gas Mileage Ratings)
Chrysler Sebring Diesel
Plant: Sterling Heights, MI
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 12 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/4-speed auto - more: Chrysler Sebring Gas Mileage Ratings)
Dodge Avenger Diesel
Plant: Sterling Heights, MI
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 12 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/4-speed auto - more: Dodge Avenger Gas Mileage Ratings)
Dodge Caliber Diesel
Plant: Belvidere, IL
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 8.8 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 1.8 liter I4/5-speed manual)
Dodge Nitro Diesel
Plant: Toledo, Ohio
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 174 HP and 339 302 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 10.5 second when equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 3.7 liter V6/6-speed manual)
Dodge Journey Diesel (Coming Soon)
Plant: Toluca, Mexico
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder, producing 140 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. Equipped with a six-speed manual or automatic transmission.
Mileage figures yet to be released.
Footnotes:
(1) MPG figures were converted from UK urban/extra-urban/combined mile per British gallon estimates for the purposes of this report, using publicly available data.
(2) Chrysler assembles, but does not manufacture, diesel-powered Dodge Sprinter Vans in Charleston, South Carolina. Mercedes-Benz ships the parts from Europe.
(3) Cummins diesel engines are a popular domestic option in heavy-duty models of the Dodge Ram pickup. Dodge is poised to extend diesel engines throughout the range.
35 MPG can be an immediate reality, with one domestic manufacturer, if the United States government would only allow it to happen. Our elected representatives need to be aware of the facts and make the appropriate decisions.
Amazing as it may seem in these difficult times, Chrysler is not allowed to sell those cars domestically, due to recently tightened emissions regulations. With the exception of the domestically-available Jeep Grand Cherokee diesel, all of Chrysler’s North American manufactured high-MPG diesel-equipped vehicles are being shipped abroad.
Each and every one of Chrysler’s European models is available with a diesel engine, with the exception of the Dodge Viper. In fact, a diesel engine can be found under the hood of more than 50% of the vehicles that Chrysler sells in Europe.
All-in-all, a dozen Chrysler, Dodge, and Jeep diesel-engined models are currently available outside of the United States, but are not sold domestically.
Here’s the eye-opener … half of those models currently achieve 35 miles per gallon combined.
That’s 35 MPG … right now.
And what’s even more crazy? All of these 35 MPG cars and SUVs are built in North American plants by North American workers … American citizens cannot buy and drive the fuel-efficient cars they build.
Needless to say, these are wonderful world-class cars, a world apart from your Uncle’s noisy, slow, smelly 80’s-era diesel.
The Mercedes-Benz V6 diesel-equipped Jeep Grand Cherokee is the first US-built passenger vehicle to meet the tougher Federal emissions requirements. With the emissions work done on the Mercedes’ 3.0 liter engine, we expect the Chrysler 300 to be the next diesel-powered domestic, as it shares the same powerplant. (At present, diesel 300s are being built in Graz, Austria.)
Chrysler is using four different diesel engines, in all:
- 2.0 liter Volkswagen turbo-diesel inline four (Avenger, Caliber, Compass, Journey, Sebring, Patriot)
- 2.2 liter Mercedes-Benz inline four (PT Cruiser)
- 2.8 liter VM Motari inline four (Cherokee, Grand Voyager, Nitro, Wrangler)
- 3.0 liter Mercedes-Benz V6 (300, Commander, Grand Cherokee)
Crazier schemes have been implemented to stimulate the economy, no doubt about that. But this one just might work … by spurring investment and putting people back to work.
As you ponder that thought, take a gander at a group of specifications that compare the European diesels with the most fuel-efficient engines in each of the US domestics …
Jeep Patriot Diesel
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel inline four cylinder engine, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/5-speed/2WD - more: Jeep Patriot Gas Mileage Ratings)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
42.8
28
28
City
26.7
23
23
Combined
35.1
Jeep Compass Diesel
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel inline four cylinder engine, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/5-speed/2WD - more: Jeep Compass Gas Mileage Ratings)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
43.5
28
28
City
28.3
23
23
Combined
36.2
Jeep Wrangler Diesel
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 174 HP and 302 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11.2 seconds (two door), 11.7 seconds (four door) when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 3.8 liter V6/6-speed/2WD)
Two-door
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
28.3
21
21
City
18.5
16
16
Combined
23.7
Jeep Cherokee (aka: Liberty) Diesel
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 161 HP and 295 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 11.2 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 3.7 liter V6/6-speed/2WD)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
30.6
22
22
City
19.6
16
16
Combined
25.3
(The 2.8 liter diesel engine was available in the domestic Jeep Liberty in the 2005 and 2006 model years.)
Jeep Commander Diesel
Engine: Mercedes-Benz 3.0 liter common rail diesel, producing 215 HP and 376 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 9.0 seconds when equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 3.7 liter/V6/5-speed Auto/2WD or 4.7 liter/V8/5-speed Auto/2WD)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
25.6
19
19
City
17.4
14
14
Combined
21.8
Chrysler 300 Diesel
Engine: Mercedes-Benz 3.0 liter common rail diesel, producing 215 HP and 376 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 7.6 seconds - Sedan (Saloon), 8.6 seconds - Wagon (Touring), when equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 2.7 liter V6/5-speed Auto)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
35.6
26
26
City
21.8
18
18
Combined
29
Chrysler Grand Voyager (aka: Town & Country) Diesel
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 174 161 HP and 339 265 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 12 seconds when equipped with a four-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 3.3 liter V6/4-speed auto - more: Chrysler Town and Country Gas Mileage Ratings)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
35.1
24
24
City
20.5
17
17
Combined
27.6
Chrysler PT Cruiser Diesel
Engine: Mercedes-Benz 2.2 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 148 HP and 221 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 10.8 second, when equipped with a five-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/5-speed Manual - more: Chrysler PT Cruiser Gas Mileage Ratings)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
HighwayDomestic US MPG
42
26
City26
27.3
21
Combined21
35.1
Chrysler Sebring Diesel
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 12 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/4-speed auto - more: Chrysler Sebring Gas Mileage Ratings)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
46.1
30
30
City
28.6
21
21
Combined
38
Dodge Avenger Diesel
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 12 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 2.4 liter I4/4-speed auto - more: Dodge Avenger Gas Mileage Ratings)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
46.1
30
30
City
28.6
21
21
Combined
38
Dodge Caliber Diesel
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel, producing 138 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 8.8 seconds when equipped with a six-speed manual transmission.
(Domestic: 1.8 liter I4/5-speed manual)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
49
29
29
City
29.8
24
24
Combined
39.2
Dodge Nitro Diesel
Engine: VM Motori 2.8 liter common rail diesel four cylinder, producing 174 HP and 339 302 foot pounds of torque. 0-62 MPH in 10.5 second when equipped with a five-speed automatic transmission.
(Domestic: 3.7 liter V6/6-speed manual)
US MPG Euro Diesel
Domestic US MPG
Domestic US MPG
Highway
30.1
22
22
City
19.3
16
16
Combined
25
Dodge Journey Diesel (Coming Soon)
Engine: Volkswagen 2.0 liter common rail turbo-diesel four cylinder, producing 140 HP and 229 foot pounds of torque. Equipped with a six-speed manual or automatic transmission.
Mileage figures yet to be released.
Footnotes:
(1) MPG figures were converted from UK urban/extra-urban/combined mile per British gallon estimates for the purposes of this report, using publicly available data.
(2) Chrysler assembles, but does not manufacture, diesel-powered Dodge Sprinter Vans in Charleston, South Carolina. Mercedes-Benz ships the parts from Europe.
(3) Cummins diesel engines are a popular domestic option in heavy-duty models of the Dodge Ram pickup. Dodge is poised to extend diesel engines throughout the range.
They've never been available to US owners...the emisssion control requirements in the states create issues with the higher mpg diesels.
Seems like emissions per mile would be more important, than at idle...but I'm no expert.
But the question I have is, how can the EU citz and gov't look down their collective noses when they are allowing these cars to be sold...and buying them?
Seems like emissions per mile would be more important, than at idle...but I'm no expert.
But the question I have is, how can the EU citz and gov't look down their collective noses when they are allowing these cars to be sold...and buying them?
Interesting to see movement already on this, with Putin leading a mini-sub to the bottom of Lake Baikal to observe the crystals:
BBC NEWS | Europe | Putin dives world's deepest lake
T
Tao_Equus
Guest
A short radio piece on Greenland and how global warming might change it...as a place to exploit. 
BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Greenland comes in from the cold
BBC NEWS | Programmes | From Our Own Correspondent | Greenland comes in from the cold
citizenzen
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A short radio piece on Greenland and how global warming might change it...as a place to exploit.
Yeah... we'll be invading Greenland too.
Climate Change Seen as Threat to U.S. Security — N.Y. Times
"Recent war games and intelligence studies conclude that over the next 20 to 30 years, vulnerable regions, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and South and Southeast Asia, will face the prospect of food shortages, water crises and catastrophic flooding driven by climate change that could demand an American humanitarian relief or military response."
"Recent war games and intelligence studies conclude that over the next 20 to 30 years, vulnerable regions, particularly sub-Saharan Africa, the Middle East and South and Southeast Asia, will face the prospect of food shortages, water crises and catastrophic flooding driven by climate change that could demand an American humanitarian relief or military response."
Because once you've spent all that money on guns... it would be a shame not to use 'em.
nativeastral
fluffy future
anyone seen this? free information networks but charging for carbon
TED Blog: Zipcar and beyond: Robin Chase on TED.com
TED Blog: Zipcar and beyond: Robin Chase on TED.com
shawn
Well-Known Member
Ironic isn't it. 90% of "greenhouse" effect, is not CO2, or any other gas, but rather H2O (water), in the form of vapors, droplets and clouds...
Doubly ironic that man produces only 2.8 % per year of the total CO2 production on this planet...
Trippley ironic that we still don't have a mean temperature for the entire planet, from which to base our determination for "global" warming...
Best guess is 14*C, but even that is speculative in the science comunity.
OAT
Where is the TAO?
Carbon dioxide controls Earth's temperature
"Various atmospheric components differ in their contributions to the greenhouse effect, some through feedbacks and some through forcings. Without carbon dioxide and other non-condensing greenhouse gases, water vapor and clouds would be unable to provide the feedback mechanisms that amplify the greenhouse effect."
"Various atmospheric components differ in their contributions to the greenhouse effect, some through feedbacks and some through forcings. Without carbon dioxide and other non-condensing greenhouse gases, water vapor and clouds would be unable to provide the feedback mechanisms that amplify the greenhouse effect."
citizenzen
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Humans are at least 60% water.
It's amazing what water can do when you add a few other ingredients to it.
OAT
Where is the TAO?
Drought may threaten much of globe within decades
"...warming temperatures associated with climate change will likely create increasingly dry conditions across much of the globe in the next 30 years, possibly reaching a scale in some regions by the end of the century that has rarely, if ever, been observed in modern times."
"...warming temperatures associated with climate change will likely create increasingly dry conditions across much of the globe in the next 30 years, possibly reaching a scale in some regions by the end of the century that has rarely, if ever, been observed in modern times."
OAT
Where is the TAO?
Study could mean greater anticipated global warming
"Global climate models disagree widely in the magnitude of the warming we can expect with increasing carbon dioxide. This is mainly because the models represent clouds differently. A new modeling approach successfully simulates the observed cloud fields in a key region for climate. The study finds a greater tendency for clouds to thin with global warming than in any of the current climate models. This means the expected warming may be greater than currently anticipated."
"Global climate models disagree widely in the magnitude of the warming we can expect with increasing carbon dioxide. This is mainly because the models represent clouds differently. A new modeling approach successfully simulates the observed cloud fields in a key region for climate. The study finds a greater tendency for clouds to thin with global warming than in any of the current climate models. This means the expected warming may be greater than currently anticipated."